Magnus # 13 Printing Problem and Price Guide Questions

[drmirage]

Based on Greg's CGC 9.8 Graded Guide: I am curious on why the CGC 9.8 prices on some of these books the way they are besides people pay much more or much less for these issues. Maybe I am missing something here. If anyone can explain, I'd appreciate it.

Solar #1 85,000 copies / $75.00 (168 graded)
Solar #2 70,000 copies / $45.00 (43 graded)
Solar #3 65,000 copies / $70.00 (84 graded)
Solar #4 60,000 copies / $70.00 (70 graded)
Solar #5 60,000 copies / $90.00 (90 graded)

Magnus #1 80,000 copies / $65.00 (229 graded)
Magnus #2, #3, #4 60,000 - 65,000 copies $45.00 - $55.00 (43-60 graded)
Magnus #5 85,000 copies / $120.00 (70 graded)
Magnus #6 75,000 copies / $55.00 (54 graded)
Magnus #7 80,000 copies / $150.00 (34 graded)
Magnus #8 80,000 copies / $55.00 (40 graded)
Magnus #13 50,000 copies / $200.00 (11 graded)

Solar Issues:
Why is Solar #2 is $45 when there are 43 graded, while Solar #3 is $70 with 84 graded?
Why is Solar #5 is $90 when there are 90 graded, while Solar #4 is $70 with 70 graded?
I guess I am not understanding why Solar #2 is only $45 in the guide and why Solar #3 and #5 are $70-$90.

Magnus Issues:
Magnus #5, is there any special in this book besides being the first Rai apperance? $120 in the guide.
Magnus #7, $150 in the guide. 34 graded
Magnus #13, $200 in the guide. 11 graded

Why is Magnus #7 worth $150.00. Its so much more than Magnus #6 and #8.
Why are there only 11 graded (9.8) of Magnus #13? Was is due to a printing problem? I was quite surprised that this book is priced higher than Magnus #12

Thanks.

UPDATED 9/28/2012

Greg has said, "The guide reflects recorded prices paid on Ebay. The harder question is why people paid those prices. "

So why is Magnus #13 CGC 9.8 is $200

We now have an clue to as why only 11 copies of Magnus #13 are graded at 9.8. As addressed by kjjohanson. "copies of Magnus #13, and they all have the same defect on the back cover, left side, towards the bottom. Must be a print defect because it looks the same. "

[MoonChild]

Oh that's just Greg having fun with you bro, didn't you know Seriously though, I was just looking at the price guide on here right now, first time in a long time.

[greg]

That's an easy question.
The guide reflects recorded prices paid on Ebay.

The harder question is why people paid those prices.
Luckily, it's a price guide, and not a psychological manual.

[greg]

To address individual issues, and speculate on buyer psychology:
Solar #3 is the first Harada.
Solar #1 is the first Solar in Valiant.
Solar #2 is... umm... not as important as either of these.

Magnus 11 and 13 supplies in CGC 9.8 are currently not meeting the demand of collectors.

Current prices generally reflect earlier prices. When Magnus 7 was very hard to find in CGC 9.8, the prices were high. Later, more copies were graded, but prices were pretty-well established, so the #7 price didn't immediately fall to match supply. It might, if several copies were dumped on Ebay at once with regular auctions. So far, that hasn't happened.

[kevinbastos]

Solar #2 is... umm... not as important as either of these.

One of the funnier things I have read in quite a while.




Perhaps I need to read more.

[drmirage]

Thank you all for the info.

If Magnus 11 and 13 supplies in CGC 9.8 are currently not meeting the demand of collectors, time to send some of these in to CGC.

That's an easy question.
The guide reflects recorded prices paid on Ebay.

The harder question is why people paid those prices.
Luckily, it's a price guide, and not a psychological manual.

[kjjohanson]

Why are there only 11 graded (9.8) of Magnus #13? Was is due to a printing problem? I was quite surprised that this book is priced higher than Magnus #12

I have 3 copies of Magnus 13, and they all have the same defect on the back cover, left side, towards the bottom. Must be a print defect because it looks the same. Not a great pic but here's a shot



That little thing coming out of "These" is sorta like a crease, but all 3 copies have the same thing in the same place and look pretty much the same. What's funny is that I've seen the same thing on Harbinger #3s, only not as severe. (You'll notice that the count of 9.8s of that book is less than either #2 or #4.) Since that book was printed a couple of months before the issue of Magnus, my guess is that there was some defect with the press that caused these defects, and it got worse. It would be interesting to see if others have noticed it in any books printed around that time. I'm pretty sure that all 3 of both of these issues I picked up at the same time, so the defect may not show up in the entire run.

[drmirage]

Very interesting. I have a full run of VH1 Magnus and I looked at the issue #13 last night. The front looks perfect, but the back has this similar issue.

No one would have ever thought that Magnus #13 would be going for more than Magnus #12.

Also, it seems odd that there are 50,000 of Magnus #13 and there are only 11 graded in 9.8.

[greg]

The prices of raw copies of Magnus #13 have been low since CGC started. It's often hard to justify paying for CGC grading ($25 or so, including shipping) when the book itself is around $5.

It's not surprising to me that Magnus #13 was rarely submitted. As far as pre-Unity books go... in raw form... it's one of the least important.

[Aram]

I figure there are around 20-30 people who want preunity 9.8 cgc sets and are willing to buy slabs at reasonable prices. Anything in this range that is hard to grade and low census gets picked up by the few people in that group who are willing and able to pay a much higher amount.

Once the census grows to 25-35+ issues in 9.8 the prices tend to drop rapidly for non key issues and likewise there is less motivation for people to get their copies graded. Thereby on low availability books an artificial high is created with the appearance of a high dollar book because there is no supply to match demand at what would be the current going rate if copies were available. This holds true with all Valiant books but at different census ranges. There are many common books that would sell for $50 right now if they were on the market, but that same book would be a $25 book by the time there were 3 graded copies.

When you have key pre unity issues then you get people who aren't going for full sets going after them for the first appearances etc. Then prices still remain high until there are a much larger amount of issues on the census, usually around 60-100+ in 9.8.

I think the safest area to subit books for grading is pre unity that are under 30 in the census for 9.8. You likely wont get $200, but you could certainly make a decent amount on those issues.

I personally use a $20/50 rule in general for my books. If a graded copy can be had for $20 more than the cost of me obtaining a nm+ copy and having it graded, I will go for the slab. If it's a 9.6 and a 9.8 will cost me more than $50 more and the 9.6 meets near the $20 rule, I will settle for a 9.6.

I think there are a lot of people that feel the same way and would purchase many more slabs if they were available at the right price range.

Of course there are always exceptions when you really want a book. I've done crazy things like overpaying or buying low grade copies many times for books I really want and are not available at my price or in my desired grade/price.

[greg]

I think you're right with your estimates for pre-Unity CGC 9.8 counts.

The current demand for those completing sets would probably be met by 25 to 35 copies on the CGC census.

More copies are needed if the book:
- is a #1 (or #0)
- contains first appearances (especially if the character is in the new Valiant books)
- was very hard to find (or expensive) in the mid-1990s

Sometimes, all three conditions apply (Harbinger #1, for example) to pre-Unity books.
In those cases, the demand may remain high as long as the number of copies graded CGC 9.8 has steady (not overwhelming) growth.

[hulk181man]

Why are there only 11 graded (9.8) of Magnus #13? Was is due to a printing problem? I was quite surprised that this book is priced higher than Magnus #12

I have 3 copies of Magnus 13, and they all have the same defect on the back cover, left side, towards the bottom. Must be a print defect because it looks the same. Not a great pic but here's a shot



That little thing coming out of "These" is sorta like a crease, but all 3 copies have the same thing in the same place and look pretty much the same. What's funny is that I've seen the same thing on Harbinger #3s, only not as severe. (You'll notice that the count of 9.8s of that book is less than either #2 or #4.) Since that book was printed a couple of months before the issue of Magnus, my guess is that there was some defect with the press that caused these defects, and it got worse. It would be interesting to see if others have noticed it in any books printed around that time. I'm pretty sure that all 3 of both of these issues I picked up at the same time, so the defect may not show up in the entire run.

You are both correct on this defect. I've noticed it on every raw issue I've seen, from various stores and sources. Tough in 9.8....

[jmatt]

I don't see it. Where's the defect?

[kjjohanson]

I don't see it. Where's the defect?

Do you see the copy that says "These bikers are tough"? That white thing coming out of the "T" in "These" isn't part of the art. That should be blue. It's damage to the paper, caused during the printing process.

[ckb]

I'd venture to say most of the 9.8 copies of M13 on the census were slabbed by me. This was a book that I had a number of copies saved from the early 90s and had great results with them. I got my personal copy early and since it is not a highly sought after key, I just didn't keep submitting it. Never a book I tired to acquire many of, either.

I don't remember or have never seen a copy with that back cover defect.

I will certainly get some more graded if I have them available.

[drmirage]

What kjjohanson is true... There is a processing / printing problem with this book... Now we know why there are only 11 graded at 9.8

This is from my Magnus Robot Fighter run. The front cover is flawless, but the back is a totally different story.

Here is a detailed image:



If the book has no other issues, but this. Does anyone have a guess what the CGC grade might be?

[kjjohanson]

What kjjohanson is true... There is a processing / printing problem with this book... Now we know why there are only 11 graded at 9.8

This is from my Magnus Robot Fighter run. The front cover is flawless, but the back is a totally different story.

Here is a detailed image:



If the book has no other issues, but this. Does anyone have a guess what the CGC grade might be?

You know, this is exactly one of the questions that I was going to pose to the board, once I found the place to post it. Since this is a print defect, would it be graded less harshly than it would be if had been randomly damaged? Des back cover damage count less than front cover damage? (I'm always more critical of front cover damage.)

Has anyone else noticed this same problem with Harbinger #3? My copies have a similar defect, and I see the CGC census has a dearth of 9.8s for that issue.

[Zaphod]

My copy of #13 doesn't have this problem, it does however have some damage in the bottom corner so it wouldn't make for a top grade I don't think.

common defects won't matter I don't imagine when it comes to the over-all grade.

[caniac]

One of my three #13s has that defect...luckily it's the one in the worst condition.

[Blood of Heroes]

I guess those bikers were tough.