Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

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Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Oxmyx »

When I was only about a third of the way through my current VH1 Valiant reading experience, I read Chaos Effect, or at least as much as I could get ahold of.

Up to that point I'd read a good deal of A&A and all of Unity so it came as a shock to me when someone commented almost offhand that Archer was a Harbinger.

I immediately felt stupid that it hadn't occurred to me before. At least, occurred to me as a good possibility. Clearly the Valiant Universe has plenty of explanations for heros getting their powers, with Harbinger just one.

So my question...did I just miss something in my broken reading of A+A? I think I missed hints maybe but was Archer ever identified as a Harbinger in print before Chaos?
I imagine before Archer was identified as a Harbinger there were various fan speculations about the origin of his powers.
Anyone recall any good ones?
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by valiantdude »

It was always known back then that archer was a harbinger, was mentioned a few places

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Oxmyx »

valiantdude wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:43:47 pm
It was always known back then that archer was a harbinger, was mentioned a few places
I somehow missed every one of those "a few places"

Was there a mention in A+A Zero ( which I am still looking for)?
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by valiantdude »

Was it secrets of the valiant universe? The vh1 cards?

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Blood of Heroes »

I can't remember if it was explicitly said, but it seemed obvious to the reader that he was a harbinger.

If you consider that you already know what harbingers are, you can conclude that Archer is one. In VH1, harbingers are "activated" by either Sting or Harada rooting around in their brain, or having survived some traumatic experience. If I recall correctly, young Obidiah had always possessed above average reflexes/hand eye coordination. Then one day he walked in on his parents tying up and killing teenagers so they knocked him out and set the house on fire. BOOM! Harbinger powers activate!!


At least, that's how I remember it. I haven't read the books in God knows how long.

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by grendeljd »

Seems to me like I knew this too, but I also cannot recall where/when I read it being specifically stated. This really makes me want to re-read the BWS A&A issues right now :)
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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by David_Cody »

I always assumed that Archer's "gifts" were activated upon seeing his monster parents.

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

I don't remember Obie being described as a Harbinger in the original A&A series at all. Please provide issue & page numbers.

Whether or not he really is a Harbinger is purposely left to the reader's interpretation.

He could be a Harbinger (which is just the Valiant term for being a "mutant" anyway).
His powers could be God-given; emphasized by his name, Obadiah.
Or, it could just be extraordinary talent --that Obie may believe to be God-given-- paired with hard training and great belief in oneself.

On the trading card for A&A #0 it only says "uncanny physical abilities."

The only time he's actually called a Harbinger is on Deathmate trading cards but in the Deathmate universe he's a different kind of Archer.

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Chiclo »

Regarding the implication of his name, Obadiah means “servant of Adonai”, or “serving Adonai”. It was the name of one of the minor prophets and the shortest book of the Bible, essentially a threat against the people of Edom for their hostility against the nation of Israel as they wandered in the desert after the Exodus.

“Placed by the Lord” or “gift of the Lord” would be the name Nathaniel.

Were I to have the opportunity to name a son, I am quite keen on the name Daniel Obadiah.

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Oxmyx »

Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:52:43 am
Regarding the implication of his name, Obadiah means “servant of Adonai”, or “serving Adonai”. It was the name of one of the minor prophets and the shortest book of the Bible, essentially a threat against the people of Edom for their hostility against the nation of Israel as they wandered in the desert after the Exodus.

“Placed by the Lord” or “gift of the Lord” would be the name Nathaniel.

Were I to have the opportunity to name a son, I am quite keen on the name Daniel Obadiah.
Interesting to me, it's been pointed that many biblical names and places end with -EL which just means LORD and wasn't limited to Hebrew names, demonstrated by Ba'el
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Oxmyx »

Sunlight on Snow wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:59:38 am
I don't remember Obie being described as a Harbinger in the original A&A series at all. Please provide issue & page numbers.

Whether or not he really is a Harbinger is purposely left to the reader's interpretation.
.
Apparently after Acclaim took over the whole "reader's interpretation" wasn't their thing.

Archer wasn't labeled Harbinger in HIS run but rather in Chaos Effect: Omega. Sorry, I don't have the page number
717233.jpg
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Last edited by Oxmyx on Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:49:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:52:43 am
Regarding the implication of his name, Obadiah means “servant of Adonai”, or “serving Adonai”. It was the name of one of the minor prophets and the shortest book of the Bible, essentially a threat against the people of Edom for their hostility against the nation of Israel as they wandered in the desert after the Exodus.

“Placed by the Lord” or “gift of the Lord” would be the name Nathaniel.

Were I to have the opportunity to name a son, I am quite keen on the name Daniel Obadiah.

I thought the meaning of Obadiah was "servant of the Lord" in Hebrew?

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

Oxmyx wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:29:21 am
Sunlight on Snow wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:59:38 am
I don't remember Obie being described as a Harbinger in the original A&A series at all. Please provide issue & page numbers.

Whether or not he really is a Harbinger is purposely left to the reader's interpretation.
.
Apparently after Acclaim took over the whole "reader's interpretation" wasn't their thing.

Archer wasn't labeled Harbinger in HIS run but rather in Chaos Effect: Omega717233.jpg
This is interesting because Chaos Effect: Alpha & Omega were both written by Bob Layton. He'd even co-plotted and wrote a few A&A issues before that.

Such a sloppy mistake by Layton! :lol:

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

Oxmyx wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:19:59 am
Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:52:43 am
Regarding the implication of his name, Obadiah means “servant of Adonai”, or “serving Adonai”. It was the name of one of the minor prophets and the shortest book of the Bible, essentially a threat against the people of Edom for their hostility against the nation of Israel as they wandered in the desert after the Exodus.

“Placed by the Lord” or “gift of the Lord” would be the name Nathaniel.

Were I to have the opportunity to name a son, I am quite keen on the name Daniel Obadiah.
Interesting to me, it's been pointed that many biblical names and places end with -EL which just means LORD and wasn't limited to Hebrew names, demonstrated by Ba'el
Many language families have similar words for "Lord:"

Semitic ("el/al"), Romance ("deus/dios/dieu"), Germanic ("Gott/God/Gud"), Slavic ("bog").

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Chiclo »

Sunlight on Snow wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:17:32 pm
Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:52:43 am
Regarding the implication of his name, Obadiah means “servant of Adonai”, or “serving Adonai”. It was the name of one of the minor prophets and the shortest book of the Bible, essentially a threat against the people of Edom for their hostility against the nation of Israel as they wandered in the desert after the Exodus.

“Placed by the Lord” or “gift of the Lord” would be the name Nathaniel.

Were I to have the opportunity to name a son, I am quite keen on the name Daniel Obadiah.

I thought the meaning of Obadiah was "servant of the Lord" in Hebrew?
It does.

The elements of Obadiah are Obed-yah. Obed means servant (see the grandfather of King David) or more specifically, the participle form Serving. Yah is a contracted form of the given name of the Lord, the Tetragrammaton. There are a host of traditions and taboos about speaking His name and I was raised to be uncomfortable with the thought of saying His given name (or even to use the title of God) so most often when translating into English, I use the Hebrew title Adonai [or even rarely haShem (the Name)] which translates as “my Lord”. So it is a specific Lord to whom Obadiah is named as a servant.

Generally speaking, most Bible translations translate three different Hebrew words as “the Lord”. The first is the Tetragrammaton, His given name. The particle -yah (or yeho-) appears in a lot of Biblical names; Obadiah, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Jonathan, John, Jesus, Joshua, Zachariah, Hananiah, among others. The second is Adonai - from adon, meaning Lord, and -ai, which is the first person singular possessive postfix for a plural noun, “my lords”, following a feature of the Hebrew Scriptures to refer to Him with plural nouns and singular verbs. I can’t think of any Biblical names that include Adonai as an element. The third word is El, or Elohim in the plural. Again with the plurals, Elohim can refer either to Adonai or to other gods of other tribes, depending on context. Michael Heiser has some interesting ideas, if considerably outside the mainstream, about Elohim referring to a Hebrew sorta-pantheon. His assertions are not baseless and grounded in solid academic research. The particle -el appears in a lot of Biblical names; Michael, Nathaniel, Israel, Bavel (the city), Daniel, Eli, Raphael, et al.

In my class, Ba’al was defined as meaning Lord, but not in the divine sense, but rather in the sense of the title for a landowner - the English word comes from the Old English hlaford/hlaf weard, the guardian of the bread loaf. Ba’al is often used both as a given name of a specific pagan other god that is worshipped by folks both outside and inside the nation of Israel (often alongside Asheroth); as well as used as a generic name for other gods, especially in the plural, Ba’als. I am unaware of a Ba’el spelling in the Scriptures BUT the Scriptures (Tanakh, Old Testament) were written without (most*) vowels until the Masoretes recorded them in the early Middle Ages based on oral tradition. This ties into why the Tetragrammaton should not be spoken aloud, since the vowels were lost. It is possible that the name is Ba’el, but not especially likely.

And then there’s Ugaritic mythology.

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Chiclo »

Oxmyx wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:19:59 am
Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:52:43 am
Regarding the implication of his name, Obadiah means “servant of Adonai”, or “serving Adonai”. It was the name of one of the minor prophets and the shortest book of the Bible, essentially a threat against the people of Edom for their hostility against the nation of Israel as they wandered in the desert after the Exodus.

“Placed by the Lord” or “gift of the Lord” would be the name Nathaniel.

Were I to have the opportunity to name a son, I am quite keen on the name Daniel Obadiah.
Interesting to me, it's been pointed that many biblical names and places end with -EL which just means LORD and wasn't limited to Hebrew names, demonstrated by Ba'el
El appears in several Semitic languages. It is cognatic with the Arabic Allah, for example. Babylon is the Hellenised form of Bavel, the City of the Lord. It is more often used as a title than a name.

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Blood of Heroes »

I’m confused. How does Kahless fit into any of this? :?

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Chiclo »

Blood of Heroes wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:26:56 pm
I’m confused. How does Kahless fit into any of this? :?
He fits Unforgettably.

Very much a parallel to the Yellow Emperor, was he a man who became myth or a myth who became a man? At most, a guru but not a deity by any stretch.

Yes, I am voicing skepticism of the existence of an historical Kahless. :wink: :P 8-)

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Blood of Heroes »

Chiclo wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:49:31 pm
Blood of Heroes wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:26:56 pm
I’m confused. How does Kahless fit into any of this? :?
He fits Unforgettably.

Very much a parallel to the Yellow Emperor, was he a man who became myth or a myth who became a man? At most, a guru but not a deity by any stretch.

Yes, I am voicing skepticism of the existence of an historical Kahless. :wink: :P 8-)
That’s much clearer now. Thank you. :high-five:

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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by The Chosen 1 »

Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:30:15 pm
Sunlight on Snow wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:17:32 pm
Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:52:43 am
Regarding the implication of his name, Obadiah means “servant of Adonai”, or “serving Adonai”. It was the name of one of the minor prophets and the shortest book of the Bible, essentially a threat against the people of Edom for their hostility against the nation of Israel as they wandered in the desert after the Exodus.

“Placed by the Lord” or “gift of the Lord” would be the name Nathaniel.

Were I to have the opportunity to name a son, I am quite keen on the name Daniel Obadiah.

I thought the meaning of Obadiah was "servant of the Lord" in Hebrew?
It does.

The elements of Obadiah are Obed-yah. Obed means servant (see the grandfather of King David) or more specifically, the participle form Serving. Yah is a contracted form of the given name of the Lord, the Tetragrammaton. There are a host of traditions and taboos about speaking His name and I was raised to be uncomfortable with the thought of saying His given name (or even to use the title of God) so most often when translating into English, I use the Hebrew title Adonai [or even rarely haShem (the Name)] which translates as “my Lord”. So it is a specific Lord to whom Obadiah is named as a servant.

Generally speaking, most Bible translations translate three different Hebrew words as “the Lord”. The first is the Tetragrammaton, His given name. The particle -yah (or yeho-) appears in a lot of Biblical names; Obadiah, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Jonathan, John, Jesus, Joshua, Zachariah, Hananiah, among others. The second is Adonai - from adon, meaning Lord, and -ai, which is the first person singular possessive postfix for a plural noun, “my lords”, following a feature of the Hebrew Scriptures to refer to Him with plural nouns and singular verbs. I can’t think of any Biblical names that include Adonai as an element. The third word is El, or Elohim in the plural. Again with the plurals, Elohim can refer either to Adonai or to other gods of other tribes, depending on context. Michael Heiser has some interesting ideas, if considerably outside the mainstream, about Elohim referring to a Hebrew sorta-pantheon. His assertions are not baseless and grounded in solid academic research. The particle -el appears in a lot of Biblical names; Michael, Nathaniel, Israel, Bavel (the city), Daniel, Eli, Raphael, et al.

In my class, Ba’al was defined as meaning Lord, but not in the divine sense, but rather in the sense of the title for a landowner - the English word comes from the Old English hlaford/hlaf weard, the guardian of the bread loaf. Ba’al is often used both as a given name of a specific pagan other god that is worshipped by folks both outside and inside the nation of Israel (often alongside Asheroth); as well as used as a generic name for other gods, especially in the plural, Ba’als. I am unaware of a Ba’el spelling in the Scriptures BUT the Scriptures (Tanakh, Old Testament) were written without (most*) vowels until the Masoretes recorded them in the early Middle Ages based on oral tradition. This ties into why the Tetragrammaton should not be spoken aloud, since the vowels were lost. It is possible that the name is Ba’el, but not especially likely.

And then there’s Ugaritic mythology.
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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

The Chosen 1 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:05:37 am
Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:30:15 pm
Sunlight on Snow wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:17:32 pm
Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:52:43 am
Regarding the implication of his name, Obadiah means “servant of Adonai”, or “serving Adonai”. It was the name of one of the minor prophets and the shortest book of the Bible, essentially a threat against the people of Edom for their hostility against the nation of Israel as they wandered in the desert after the Exodus.

“Placed by the Lord” or “gift of the Lord” would be the name Nathaniel.

Were I to have the opportunity to name a son, I am quite keen on the name Daniel Obadiah.

I thought the meaning of Obadiah was "servant of the Lord" in Hebrew?
It does.

The elements of Obadiah are Obed-yah. Obed means servant (see the grandfather of King David) or more specifically, the participle form Serving. Yah is a contracted form of the given name of the Lord, the Tetragrammaton. There are a host of traditions and taboos about speaking His name and I was raised to be uncomfortable with the thought of saying His given name (or even to use the title of God) so most often when translating into English, I use the Hebrew title Adonai [or even rarely haShem (the Name)] which translates as “my Lord”. So it is a specific Lord to whom Obadiah is named as a servant.

Generally speaking, most Bible translations translate three different Hebrew words as “the Lord”. The first is the Tetragrammaton, His given name. The particle -yah (or yeho-) appears in a lot of Biblical names; Obadiah, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Jonathan, John, Jesus, Joshua, Zachariah, Hananiah, among others. The second is Adonai - from adon, meaning Lord, and -ai, which is the first person singular possessive postfix for a plural noun, “my lords”, following a feature of the Hebrew Scriptures to refer to Him with plural nouns and singular verbs. I can’t think of any Biblical names that include Adonai as an element. The third word is El, or Elohim in the plural. Again with the plurals, Elohim can refer either to Adonai or to other gods of other tribes, depending on context. Michael Heiser has some interesting ideas, if considerably outside the mainstream, about Elohim referring to a Hebrew sorta-pantheon. His assertions are not baseless and grounded in solid academic research. The particle -el appears in a lot of Biblical names; Michael, Nathaniel, Israel, Bavel (the city), Daniel, Eli, Raphael, et al.

In my class, Ba’al was defined as meaning Lord, but not in the divine sense, but rather in the sense of the title for a landowner - the English word comes from the Old English hlaford/hlaf weard, the guardian of the bread loaf. Ba’al is often used both as a given name of a specific pagan other god that is worshipped by folks both outside and inside the nation of Israel (often alongside Asheroth); as well as used as a generic name for other gods, especially in the plural, Ba’als. I am unaware of a Ba’el spelling in the Scriptures BUT the Scriptures (Tanakh, Old Testament) were written without (most*) vowels until the Masoretes recorded them in the early Middle Ages based on oral tradition. This ties into why the Tetragrammaton should not be spoken aloud, since the vowels were lost. It is possible that the name is Ba’el, but not especially likely.

And then there’s Ugaritic mythology.
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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by The Chosen 1 »

Sunlight on Snow wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:28:29 am
The Chosen 1 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:05:37 am
Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:30:15 pm
Sunlight on Snow wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:17:32 pm
Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:52:43 am
Regarding the implication of his name, Obadiah means “servant of Adonai”, or “serving Adonai”. It was the name of one of the minor prophets and the shortest book of the Bible, essentially a threat against the people of Edom for their hostility against the nation of Israel as they wandered in the desert after the Exodus.

“Placed by the Lord” or “gift of the Lord” would be the name Nathaniel.

Were I to have the opportunity to name a son, I am quite keen on the name Daniel Obadiah.

I thought the meaning of Obadiah was "servant of the Lord" in Hebrew?
It does.

The elements of Obadiah are Obed-yah. Obed means servant (see the grandfather of King David) or more specifically, the participle form Serving. Yah is a contracted form of the given name of the Lord, the Tetragrammaton. There are a host of traditions and taboos about speaking His name and I was raised to be uncomfortable with the thought of saying His given name (or even to use the title of God) so most often when translating into English, I use the Hebrew title Adonai [or even rarely haShem (the Name)] which translates as “my Lord”. So it is a specific Lord to whom Obadiah is named as a servant.

Generally speaking, most Bible translations translate three different Hebrew words as “the Lord”. The first is the Tetragrammaton, His given name. The particle -yah (or yeho-) appears in a lot of Biblical names; Obadiah, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Jonathan, John, Jesus, Joshua, Zachariah, Hananiah, among others. The second is Adonai - from adon, meaning Lord, and -ai, which is the first person singular possessive postfix for a plural noun, “my lords”, following a feature of the Hebrew Scriptures to refer to Him with plural nouns and singular verbs. I can’t think of any Biblical names that include Adonai as an element. The third word is El, or Elohim in the plural. Again with the plurals, Elohim can refer either to Adonai or to other gods of other tribes, depending on context. Michael Heiser has some interesting ideas, if considerably outside the mainstream, about Elohim referring to a Hebrew sorta-pantheon. His assertions are not baseless and grounded in solid academic research. The particle -el appears in a lot of Biblical names; Michael, Nathaniel, Israel, Bavel (the city), Daniel, Eli, Raphael, et al.

In my class, Ba’al was defined as meaning Lord, but not in the divine sense, but rather in the sense of the title for a landowner - the English word comes from the Old English hlaford/hlaf weard, the guardian of the bread loaf. Ba’al is often used both as a given name of a specific pagan other god that is worshipped by folks both outside and inside the nation of Israel (often alongside Asheroth); as well as used as a generic name for other gods, especially in the plural, Ba’als. I am unaware of a Ba’el spelling in the Scriptures BUT the Scriptures (Tanakh, Old Testament) were written without (most*) vowels until the Masoretes recorded them in the early Middle Ages based on oral tradition. This ties into why the Tetragrammaton should not be spoken aloud, since the vowels were lost. It is possible that the name is Ba’el, but not especially likely.

And then there’s Ugaritic mythology.
You forget Kal-El & Jor-El
Let's not forget about Jean-Paul Valley then!

God's AngEL of Death.

As in Angelo Mortalli by the way -- "Bringer of Death!"

Also, a brilliant song by Danzig. I'm so sorry. :P

Sometimes, my mind is a wicked labyrinth in which I get LOST.
:lol:
The Force is with Me, I am One with the Force

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Chiclo
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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Chiclo »

Sunlight on Snow wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:28:29 am
The Chosen 1 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:05:37 am
Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:30:15 pm
Sunlight on Snow wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:17:32 pm
Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:52:43 am
Regarding the implication of his name, Obadiah means “servant of Adonai”, or “serving Adonai”. It was the name of one of the minor prophets and the shortest book of the Bible, essentially a threat against the people of Edom for their hostility against the nation of Israel as they wandered in the desert after the Exodus.

“Placed by the Lord” or “gift of the Lord” would be the name Nathaniel.

Were I to have the opportunity to name a son, I am quite keen on the name Daniel Obadiah.

I thought the meaning of Obadiah was "servant of the Lord" in Hebrew?
It does.

The elements of Obadiah are Obed-yah. Obed means servant (see the grandfather of King David) or more specifically, the participle form Serving. Yah is a contracted form of the given name of the Lord, the Tetragrammaton. There are a host of traditions and taboos about speaking His name and I was raised to be uncomfortable with the thought of saying His given name (or even to use the title of God) so most often when translating into English, I use the Hebrew title Adonai [or even rarely haShem (the Name)] which translates as “my Lord”. So it is a specific Lord to whom Obadiah is named as a servant.

Generally speaking, most Bible translations translate three different Hebrew words as “the Lord”. The first is the Tetragrammaton, His given name. The particle -yah (or yeho-) appears in a lot of Biblical names; Obadiah, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Jonathan, John, Jesus, Joshua, Zachariah, Hananiah, among others. The second is Adonai - from adon, meaning Lord, and -ai, which is the first person singular possessive postfix for a plural noun, “my lords”, following a feature of the Hebrew Scriptures to refer to Him with plural nouns and singular verbs. I can’t think of any Biblical names that include Adonai as an element. The third word is El, or Elohim in the plural. Again with the plurals, Elohim can refer either to Adonai or to other gods of other tribes, depending on context. Michael Heiser has some interesting ideas, if considerably outside the mainstream, about Elohim referring to a Hebrew sorta-pantheon. His assertions are not baseless and grounded in solid academic research. The particle -el appears in a lot of Biblical names; Michael, Nathaniel, Israel, Bavel (the city), Daniel, Eli, Raphael, et al.

In my class, Ba’al was defined as meaning Lord, but not in the divine sense, but rather in the sense of the title for a landowner - the English word comes from the Old English hlaford/hlaf weard, the guardian of the bread loaf. Ba’al is often used both as a given name of a specific pagan other god that is worshipped by folks both outside and inside the nation of Israel (often alongside Asheroth); as well as used as a generic name for other gods, especially in the plural, Ba’als. I am unaware of a Ba’el spelling in the Scriptures BUT the Scriptures (Tanakh, Old Testament) were written without (most*) vowels until the Masoretes recorded them in the early Middle Ages based on oral tradition. This ties into why the Tetragrammaton should not be spoken aloud, since the vowels were lost. It is possible that the name is Ba’el, but not especially likely.

And then there’s Ugaritic mythology.
You forget Kal-El & Jor-El
Let's not forget about Jean-Paul Valley then!

God's AngEL of Death.

As in Angelo Mortalli by the way -- "Bringer of Death!"

Also, a brilliant song by Danzig. I'm so sorry. :P

Sometimes, my mind is a wicked labyrinth in which I get LOST.
Oh look, a joke. I think I’ll kill it.

The word angel is of Greek origin, not Hebrew. The -el meaning has nothing to do with the title of El in the Hebrew sense. The Hebrew equivalent is melech, not to be confused with malach (king) or Molech, another false god from the Old Testament.

αγγελος means messenger, not bringer, thus Angelo Mortalli is the messenger of death. The translation of messenger removes the agency from Angelo that bringer would imply, which parallels Bloodshot’s having been used by others in the past.

The boulevards of my mind are wide and winding.

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Sunlight on Snow
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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

Chiclo wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:03:54 am
Sunlight on Snow wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:28:29 am
The Chosen 1 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:05:37 am
Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:30:15 pm
Sunlight on Snow wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:17:32 pm
Chiclo wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:52:43 am
Regarding the implication of his name, Obadiah means “servant of Adonai”, or “serving Adonai”. It was the name of one of the minor prophets and the shortest book of the Bible, essentially a threat against the people of Edom for their hostility against the nation of Israel as they wandered in the desert after the Exodus.

“Placed by the Lord” or “gift of the Lord” would be the name Nathaniel.

Were I to have the opportunity to name a son, I am quite keen on the name Daniel Obadiah.

I thought the meaning of Obadiah was "servant of the Lord" in Hebrew?
It does.

The elements of Obadiah are Obed-yah. Obed means servant (see the grandfather of King David) or more specifically, the participle form Serving. Yah is a contracted form of the given name of the Lord, the Tetragrammaton. There are a host of traditions and taboos about speaking His name and I was raised to be uncomfortable with the thought of saying His given name (or even to use the title of God) so most often when translating into English, I use the Hebrew title Adonai [or even rarely haShem (the Name)] which translates as “my Lord”. So it is a specific Lord to whom Obadiah is named as a servant.

Generally speaking, most Bible translations translate three different Hebrew words as “the Lord”. The first is the Tetragrammaton, His given name. The particle -yah (or yeho-) appears in a lot of Biblical names; Obadiah, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Jonathan, John, Jesus, Joshua, Zachariah, Hananiah, among others. The second is Adonai - from adon, meaning Lord, and -ai, which is the first person singular possessive postfix for a plural noun, “my lords”, following a feature of the Hebrew Scriptures to refer to Him with plural nouns and singular verbs. I can’t think of any Biblical names that include Adonai as an element. The third word is El, or Elohim in the plural. Again with the plurals, Elohim can refer either to Adonai or to other gods of other tribes, depending on context. Michael Heiser has some interesting ideas, if considerably outside the mainstream, about Elohim referring to a Hebrew sorta-pantheon. His assertions are not baseless and grounded in solid academic research. The particle -el appears in a lot of Biblical names; Michael, Nathaniel, Israel, Bavel (the city), Daniel, Eli, Raphael, et al.

In my class, Ba’al was defined as meaning Lord, but not in the divine sense, but rather in the sense of the title for a landowner - the English word comes from the Old English hlaford/hlaf weard, the guardian of the bread loaf. Ba’al is often used both as a given name of a specific pagan other god that is worshipped by folks both outside and inside the nation of Israel (often alongside Asheroth); as well as used as a generic name for other gods, especially in the plural, Ba’als. I am unaware of a Ba’el spelling in the Scriptures BUT the Scriptures (Tanakh, Old Testament) were written without (most*) vowels until the Masoretes recorded them in the early Middle Ages based on oral tradition. This ties into why the Tetragrammaton should not be spoken aloud, since the vowels were lost. It is possible that the name is Ba’el, but not especially likely.

And then there’s Ugaritic mythology.
You forget Kal-El & Jor-El
Let's not forget about Jean-Paul Valley then!

God's AngEL of Death.

As in Angelo Mortalli by the way -- "Bringer of Death!"

Also, a brilliant song by Danzig. I'm so sorry. :P

Sometimes, my mind is a wicked labyrinth in which I get LOST.
Oh look, a joke. I think I’ll kill it.

The word angel is of Greek origin, not Hebrew. The -el meaning has nothing to do with the title of El in the Hebrew sense. The Hebrew equivalent is melech, not to be confused with malach (king) or Molech, another false god from the Old Testament.

αγγελος means messenger, not bringer, thus Angelo Mortalli is the messenger of death. The translation of messenger removes the agency from Angelo that bringer would imply, which parallels Bloodshot’s having been used by others in the past.

The boulevards of my mind are wide and winding.
I know angel is from the Greek "angelos" but isn't it fun there's an "el" in angel, too? Come on!

Angelo Mortalli (Mortale) => "Deadly Messenger"

Angelo di Morti (Morte) => "Messenger of Death"

Same same but (deadly) different.

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Sunlight on Snow
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Re: Like old times ... a VH1 A+A question

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

Chiclo wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:03:54 am
Sunlight on Snow wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:28:29 am
Sometimes, my mind is a wicked labyrinth in which I get LOST.
The boulevards of my mind are wide and winding.
:clap:


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