Harbinger ending with Issue #8

[Benny_Decker]

Just read the April solicitations featuring Harbinger #7:

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/shadowm ... -solicits/

"Enter the high-flying hero Faith Herbert! Peter Stanchek's former teammate and friend flies into Psiot City to find out what's going on, but the Renegade and his formidable psiots have other plans than a warm welcome. This penultimate issue ends with a shocker…"

Remember when Valiant ongoings went to #25? Or even 12? Why only 8? Low sales?

[nycjadie]

Penultimate yet again….

[nonplayer]

I am glad I never got into this. I did question ongoing because the track record to produce anything good has been abysmal.

[armlessphelan]

I feel like the last Valiant comic to make it to issue 12 was Livewire. I'm wondering how long it'll be before DMG gives up on comics. It seems like it wasn't a worthwhile investment for them because only one movies was made and it died due to the pandemic.

[Dallow Spicer1]

These trash books shouldn’t even run 8 issues. The optimistic side of me hopes the new guy in charge is clearing out the rubbish before bringing in his own creators…however time will tell.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I feel like the last Valiant comic to make it to issue 12 was Livewire. I'm wondering how long it'll be before DMG gives up on comics. It seems like it wasn't a worthwhile investment for them because only one movies was made and it died due to the pandemic.

Livewire should have ended after 4 (mediocre) issues, that series went from bad to worse.

[Chiclo]

These trash books shouldn’t even run 8 issues. The optimistic side of me hopes the new guy in charge is clearing out the rubbish before bringing in his own creators…however time will tell.

Wait, Walter is back?

[Dallow Spicer1]

These trash books shouldn’t even run 8 issues. The optimistic side of me hopes the new guy in charge is clearing out the rubbish before bringing in his own creators…however time will tell.

Wait, Walter is back?

Who’s Walter, is this some American thing?

[TimeWillTell]

I never left.

[ckb]

I never left.

[GammaJosh]

I feel like the last Valiant comic to make it to issue 12 was Livewire. I'm wondering how long it'll be before DMG gives up on comics. It seems like it wasn't a worthwhile investment for them because only one movies was made and it died due to the pandemic.

I think if they give up on comics they have to give up on the whole licensing/multimedia enterprise. I suspect the only reason the publishing division is still open is to avoid the embarrassment of shutting down, and the negative effects that would have on licensing potential.

It seems like DMG is really putting the cart before the horse. They're obviously pinning their hopes on long term licensing and multimedia income, but you can't successfully license unknown properties. Considering the vast amounts of money already on the table, it seems penny wise and dollar foolish to starve the publishing division. For a relatively minor increase in expenditure they could get the very best talent in the industry and create some real buzz. Imagine if they landed a Jonathan Hickman or a Jim Lee type to oversee the whole line in a head writer position, with an overarching plan for the whole universe. Or maybe Joe Quesada overseeing Marvel Knights before becoming EIC is a better example. I just don't think swinging for the fences with up-and-comers and 2nd & 3rd tier talent is going to help them break out and increase sales, but I get the distinct impression that's all they can afford.

[Dallow Spicer1]

For a relatively minor increase in expenditure they could get the very best talent in the industry and create some real buzz. Imagine if they landed a Jonathan Hickman or a Jim Lee type to oversee the whole line in a head writer position, with an overarching plan for the whole universe. Or maybe Joe Quesada overseeing Marvel Knights before becoming EIC is a better example. I just don't think swinging for the fences with up-and-comers and 2nd & 3rd tier talent is going to help them break out and increase sales, but I get the distinct impression that's all they can afford.

I don’t think the problem over the last 3 years has necessarily been money per se. The problem is they hired editors who blew the money on poor creative choices. I’m not saying they could afford the creme de la creme but if Dinesh could get Larosa, Kindt, Venditti level creators then so could DMG (although I don’t think some of those creators would work for DMG on principal). However, DMG editors chose to aim for a different audience and hired creators they thought would bring them in or be on the ‘right side of history’ or whatever BS was behind it (which we’ve talked about a million times).

Long story short, for the same money they could have delivered far better product and retained the core Valisht readership but instead they abandoned it.

[GammaJosh]

...if Dinesh could get Larosa, Kindt, Venditti level creators then so could DMG

That's only true if publishing had the same amount of money to work with. Remember when Dinesh used to brag about how Valiant paid the highest page rates in the industry? You haven't heard that since DMG took over, have you? My assumption has always been that DMG ordered publishing to tighten their proverbial belt, so the page rates were cut. I don't know that, but that kind of decision tracks with the change from a CEO who loves comics to a CEO who, well, let's just say...doesn't.

[dino]

...if Dinesh could get Larosa, Kindt, Venditti level creators then so could DMG

That's only true if publishing had the same amount of money to work with. Remember when Dinesh used to brag about how Valiant paid the highest page rates in the industry? You haven't heard that since DMG took over, have you? My assumption has always been that DMG ordered publishing to tighten their proverbial belt, so the page rates were cut. I don't know that, but that kind of decision tracks with the change from a CEO who loves comics to a CEO who, well, let's just say...doesn't.

We never paid the highest page rates in the industry, we were always around the upper end of indie comics

That might have been attributed to me but wasn't me I don't think.

[GammaJosh]

We never paid the highest page rates in the industry, we were always around the upper end of indie comics

That might have been attributed to me but wasn't me I don't think.

Fair enough! Care to hazard a guess on whether the rates have changed?

[Dallow Spicer1]

We never paid the highest page rates in the industry, we were always around the upper end of indie comics

That might have been attributed to me but wasn't me I don't think.

Fair enough! Care to hazard a guess on whether the rates have changed?

Gregg Katzman said a while back that money wasn’t an issue and DMG had supported them, my interpretation of that is the choice of creators they made was ‘strategic’ (and you can guess what I mean by that).

[GammaJosh]

Gregg Katzman said a while back that money wasn’t an issue and DMG had supported them, my interpretation of that is the choice of creators they made was ‘strategic’ (and you can guess what I mean by that).

I hadn't heard that. I doubt they'd be able to acknowledge publicly if the page rates had been cut. It is my understanding that DMG is basically leaving publishing alone to do as they please, but you have to assume that means within certain financial confines.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Gregg Katzman said a while back that money wasn’t an issue and DMG had supported them, my interpretation of that is the choice of creators they made was ‘strategic’ (and you can guess what I mean by that).

I hadn't heard that. I doubt they'd be able to acknowledge publicly if the page rates had been cut. It is my understanding that DMG is basically leaving publishing alone to do as they please, but you have to assume that means within certain financial confines.

Yeah sorry, I didn’t mean that in the sense of ‘money was no obstacle, go out and hire who you want’ kind of thing, I think he meant they were reasonably supported financially by DMG. No doubt financial confines were/are in place.

I think the hire of Dan Abnett and Jose Ryp tells us they DO have the money to hire and deliver quality books in line with what VEI gave us, however, they choose not to and instead give us Hopeless Hallum, Vita Ayela, Seeley, and whoever writes the latest Harbinger.

[GammaJosh]

Gregg Katzman said a while back that money wasn’t an issue and DMG had supported them, my interpretation of that is the choice of creators they made was ‘strategic’ (and you can guess what I mean by that).

I hadn't heard that. I doubt they'd be able to acknowledge publicly if the page rates had been cut. It is my understanding that DMG is basically leaving publishing alone to do as they please, but you have to assume that means within certain financial confines.

Yeah sorry, I didn’t mean that in the sense of ‘money was no obstacle, go out and hire who you want’ kind of thing, I think he meant they were reasonably supported financially by DMG. No doubt financial confines were/are in place.

I think the hire of Dan Abnett and Jose Ryp tells us they DO have the money to hire and deliver quality books in line with what VEI gave us, however, they choose not to and instead give us Hopeless Hallum, Vita Ayela, Seeley, and whoever writes the latest Harbinger.

I would actually assume the Hopeless is on the more expensive side, considering his work on top tier Marvel books. If anything I think Ryp might be less expensive than you're thinking. He's never been on a big title, has he? An offshoot Wolverine maxi series and Nancy in Hell, right?

Hiring Abnett could be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Grab one big name who takes up a disproportionate amount of the budget, and put up-and-comers on other books to make ends meet? Just guessing.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I would actually assume the Hopeless is on the more expensive side, considering his work on top tier Marvel books. If anything I think Ryp might be less expensive than you're thinking. He's never been on a big title, has he? An offshoot Wolverine maxi series and Nancy in Hell, right?

Hiring Abnett could be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Grab one big name who takes up a disproportionate amount of the budget, and put up-and-comers on other books to make ends meet? Just guessing.

I doubt whether working on top tier marvel/DC necessarily equals expensive these days. But either way, if he is expensive then it was a massive waste of money on a C level (at best) writer. That money could have been used on a writer who has a clue about XO as a character and delivered a story worthy of the name.

[dino]

We never paid the highest page rates in the industry, we were always around the upper end of indie comics

That might have been attributed to me but wasn't me I don't think.

Fair enough! Care to hazard a guess on whether the rates have changed?

I'm trying to only say nice things

[nycjadie]

I don't think short runs is a bar to success these days. I mean, the Mignolaverse and Hellboy is essentially based on 4-issue runs. They played funny with the numbering system for a time (so as to make it easier for folks to understand continuity - so suddenly there was an issue 128 or whatever).

People like quality in art and stories.

[Chiclo]

People like quality in art and stories.

Is that a swipe against today’s Valiant?

[GammaJosh]

We never paid the highest page rates in the industry, we were always around the upper end of indie comics

That might have been attributed to me but wasn't me I don't think.

Fair enough! Care to hazard a guess on whether the rates have changed?

I'm trying to only say nice things

I'm gonna go ahead and translate that as a very cheeky "Well it sure looks like they have! lol"