Second Life of Valiant Comics? - An Article

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hulk181man
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Post by hulk181man »

Troy Hickman wrote:
sonicdan wrote:
Final Solution
(W) Troy Hickman (P/I) Lonardo Manco
Book One: Eternity's End
There is a blight on the planet Earth. They're called... Superheroes.
One man has decided to rid the world of this menace and no one can escape
The Final Solution! For centuries, they've protected humanity's
future - now, who will protect them? A tragedy of staggering proportions,
this self-contained 48-page epic's repercussions will affect the entire
Acclaim Universe. Will those who've been here the longest be the first
to fall before the misguided dreams of one man? And if the mightiest do
fall, what chance do those remaining have of stopping this mad crusade?
FC, 48 pages
Oh, man, I haven't thought about this in a long, long time. I was really jazzed about the project at the time (especially since I had only written one or two professional comics at that point). I had knocked myself out on this beautiful outline, but they pulled the plug before it ever saw fruition (which also means I didn't get paid; no script, no greenbacks). I think it would've been a great mini-series.

Hey, retro is HUGE in comics these days. Can we go back and try this one again?

:wink:

For what it's worth...I really looked forward to The Final Solution when I heard rumblings about it. Oh well....I was also looking forward to Acclaim's Dr. Mirage reboot.

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Ryan
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Re:

Post by Ryan »

Geomancer wrote: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:09:26 pm As bad as it has been with having no Valiant for years – one benefit has been the freedom to imagine what a revitalized Valiant would be like.

So what happens when that changes and Valiant returns in force, publishing new stories?

A key quote from the article:
As much as I love the core fans—we would need to be able to speak to a tremendous number of people with a relaunch of the Valiant universe.
A general comment relating to similar circumstances to those VEI faces now:
"We had to find the core messages, values and style of each of these major brands in order to work with them in such a way that they can be grown into something that's still recognizable to the fans, and yet extendable to all media: comic books, video games, novels, toys, animated and live-action movies.
Granted, these are one person’s opinion – that of Jeff Gomez. But my own and each of our particular individual hopes aside, is that so unrealistic?

Is it possible that the more specific someone’s vision of what form a return of Valiant should take [or has to take] – the more likely they are to be disappointed?

Its proven to be hard enough to do even when someone is one of the writers, or even editor in chief.

My point in writing this is asking to what degree is some of the support we see here for Valiant’s return based upon very specific expectations? Perhaps one or more of us is lucky enough to see everything unfold exactly the way we pictured it. But how often does that happen with anything?

Two years after a full blown Valiant return, how many of us will be here? How many of us will see this as being closer to VH2 than VH1 and be bitterly awaiting our particular vision to materialize?

Are some people setting themselves up for an inevitable and harsh disappointment?

The Valiant characters being stuck in limbo has allowed us to become editors-in-chief of our own individual versions of the Valiant Universe. How hard will it be to have to let go of this and become fans once more?

For my part, I've tried to avoid getting too specific. Or separating what "I'd like to see" from "what has to happen." I don't know how succesful I've been wit this. Or maybe I know I'm just not that lucky and can't expect all the stars to align exactly as I would like them too.

But one thing I have learned with active publishing companies -- you get a mix of excitement and disappointment. And you have to come to terms with how you're going to deal with that - the sooner, the better
Prescient words from the Geomancer (last active 2010)

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SwiftMann
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Re: Second Life of Valiant Comics? - An Article

Post by SwiftMann »

Not only for VEI, but the problem with fandom in general. "This isn't what I thought it should be" or "I've made up my own head canon for this property and this is teh suck compared to that!"
"If you think any of these [older comics/shows/movies] do not carry a political content and is not using the medium of science fiction to explore real-world ideas, than you have not been paying attention." - Dan Abnett, VCR #246

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Ryan
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Re: Second Life of Valiant Comics? - An Article

Post by Ryan »

SwiftMann wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 10:29:58 am Not only for VEI, but the problem with fandom in general. "This isn't what I thought it should be" or "I've made up my own head canon for this property and this is teh suck compared to that!"
That's part of the deal I guess. As an audience or fandom its impossible not to develop expectations around the characters you love or grow attached to. As a creator you have to know everyone is coming to the material with a huge variety of expectations that might even sometimes be impossible to satisfy. At the end of the day you have to do what you think is the best way and not try to pander, but I think you should still be able to listen to people's reactions to the work and incorporate it into your thinking without taking it personally.

If it's your own poetry that only 20 people read then yeah that doesn't need be criticized. But a comic book universe that's been supported and still alive because of fan support and devotion can't be treated like that. The expectations and desires of the fandom should be considered and part of the creation. The idea is not to give people exactly what they think they want, that would be too obvious, but give them what they don't know they want yet.

People say oh fandoms are so bad and unreasonable these days, I was reading some Kirby Cap. America from the 70's and boy the fans could be brutal then too. And to the very guy who created most of the universe a decade ago. People can definitely take it too far, but also it's important that there are people passionate enough about something to b!tch about it. The worst thing that can happen is if people stop caring altogether.

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Re: Second Life of Valiant Comics? - An Article

Post by grendeljd »

Ryan wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:00:16 pm
SwiftMann wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 10:29:58 am Not only for VEI, but the problem with fandom in general. "This isn't what I thought it should be" or "I've made up my own head canon for this property and this is teh suck compared to that!"
That's part of the deal I guess. As an audience or fandom its impossible not to develop expectations around the characters you love or grow attached to. As a creator you have to know everyone is coming to the material with a huge variety of expectations that might even sometimes be impossible to satisfy. At the end of the day you have to do what you think is the best way and not try to pander, but I think you should still be able to listen to people's reactions to the work and incorporate it into your thinking without taking it personally.

If it's your own poetry that only 20 people read then yeah that doesn't need be criticized. But a comic book universe that's been supported and still alive because of fan support and devotion can't be treated like that. The expectations and desires of the fandom should be considered and part of the creation. The idea is not to give people exactly what they think they want, that would be too obvious, but give them what they don't know they want yet.

People say oh fandoms are so bad and unreasonable these days, I was reading some Kirby Cap. America from the 70's and boy the fans could be brutal then too. And to the very guy who created most of the universe a decade ago. People can definitely take it too far, but also it's important that there are people passionate enough about something to b!tch about it. The worst thing that can happen is if people stop caring altogether.
People are still people, and as a species we have not evolved enough to be so different than people from the 70’s. It’s a good point that you make - the behaviour is still the same. We’re still wired the same way, we still get a little entitled about the things we like and many people can’t handle having things change from whatever they were first exposed to that resonated with them.

I also agree that it is important for there to be people with passion still willing to speak up to some extent (and it is easy for many to take that passion too far). I kinda think we’ve reached that terrible point with modern Valiant where too many of us have stopped caring altogether. I’m trying not to completely fall into that category.
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Ryan
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Re: Second Life of Valiant Comics? - An Article

Post by Ryan »

grendeljd wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:02:35 am
Ryan wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:00:16 pm
SwiftMann wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 10:29:58 am Not only for VEI, but the problem with fandom in general. "This isn't what I thought it should be" or "I've made up my own head canon for this property and this is teh suck compared to that!"
That's part of the deal I guess. As an audience or fandom its impossible not to develop expectations around the characters you love or grow attached to. As a creator you have to know everyone is coming to the material with a huge variety of expectations that might even sometimes be impossible to satisfy. At the end of the day you have to do what you think is the best way and not try to pander, but I think you should still be able to listen to people's reactions to the work and incorporate it into your thinking without taking it personally.

If it's your own poetry that only 20 people read then yeah that doesn't need be criticized. But a comic book universe that's been supported and still alive because of fan support and devotion can't be treated like that. The expectations and desires of the fandom should be considered and part of the creation. The idea is not to give people exactly what they think they want, that would be too obvious, but give them what they don't know they want yet.

People say oh fandoms are so bad and unreasonable these days, I was reading some Kirby Cap. America from the 70's and boy the fans could be brutal then too. And to the very guy who created most of the universe a decade ago. People can definitely take it too far, but also it's important that there are people passionate enough about something to b!tch about it. The worst thing that can happen is if people stop caring altogether.
People are still people, and as a species we have not evolved enough to be so different than people from the 70’s. It’s a good point that you make - the behaviour is still the same. We’re still wired the same way, we still get a little entitled about the things we like and many people can’t handle having things change from whatever they were first exposed to that resonated with them.

I also agree that it is important for there to be people with passion still willing to speak up to some extent (and it is easy for many to take that passion too far). I kinda think we’ve reached that terrible point with modern Valiant where too many of us have stopped caring altogether. I’m trying not to completely fall into that category.
I agree. I think after all the VEI people left, DMG should have done some kind of reboot to get back to the roots. This whole approach of partially continuing the VEI continuity but partially ignoring everything when it's convenient doesn't work for the VEI fans or anyone else really.

Not sure what the approach has really been, something like line of least resistance I guess. The easiest way to approach an established property is to skim the back catalogue, cherry pick what you like, then make whatever you want without having to strictly adhere to anything. I just don't think that it's a good approach for bringing in new readers or keeping the old ones. :?


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