VALIANT time travel theories?

X-O Dudeowar · Post by **X-O Dudeowar** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:52:48 pm

So I'm working on a Chaos Effect synopsis for my eventual VALIANT shrine (shameless plug!), and Ivar's explanation of time travel left me confused.

In Omega, Ivar tells Magnus not to worry about screwing up the timeline, because if he goes to the past, then he was always there, and therefore he might as well just have fun. But in Epilogue 1, where the conversation continues, Ivar warns Magnus against doing something that would alter the timeline.

Those strike me as contradictory statements, but maybe I'm just reading it improperly. Was there an official VALIANT theory, or were the effects of time travel unknown within the VALIANT universe itself?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:58:26 pm

I've always thought that VALIANT time couldn't be changed, only fullfilled.

The best example of this was when Ivar helped Gilad escape from a prison in the Timewalker series. It was an event that was always meant to happen and there was nothing that could have been done to prevent it from happening.

There are other examples of the same throughout that series, and I'd say that the same applies to things like what was shown in Rai #0.

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:16:00 am

The past and the future are written in stone.

Unless you happen to be there.

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:11:36 am

X-O Dudeowar wrote:In Omega, Ivar tells Magnus not to worry about screwing up the timeline, because if he goes to the past, then he was always there, and therefore he might as well just have fun. But in Epilogue 1, where the conversation continues, Ivar warns Magnus against doing something that would alter the timeline.

Didn't Ivar specifically use he word "Probably" in the first quote? Maybe first he talks about altering the timeline, but then he realises he's gone too far. I think not even Ivar is sure what the truth is. His goal in life is to return to ancient Egypt, even though that would be to change history. We've seen him change the future and then change it back (Harbinger wars), we've seen him try to change history and fail (or often enough cause history). We've seen him plant clues that he remembers finding later on. All and all I think he just takes things as they come and don't worry too much about the physics behind. Judging from the stories I would say we have a changable universe, but some time-lines are very stable and pretty much self-fulfilling. It takes a major change to really create a new "prime" time-line. One major question is if Unity changed history or not? Was Aric in the ground before Unity as well? The events of Solar 12, did they happen the same way in the post-Unity universe? Was future Gilad at the beginning of Unity the same as at the end? And so on...

/Magnus

tarheelmarine · Post by **tarheelmarine** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:01:09 am

When it comes to time travel, I am reminded of the scene of Austin Powers going cross-eyed thinkning about it. Time travel in the Valiant U is to complex to try and figure out.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:08:40 pm

I got to thinking about time-travel too hard one time, and woke up in Texas, working at a diner where this cute redhead waits tables.....

Wait, sorry, that wasn't me - I just watched the latest "Heroes" episode again...

-slym

tarheelmarine · Post by **tarheelmarine** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:25:54 pm

slym2none wrote:I got to thinking about time-travel too hard one time, and woke up in Texas, working at a diner where this cute redhead waits tables.....

Wait, sorry, that wasn't me - I just watched the latest "Heroes" episode again...

-slym

Hmmm, Slym must secretly wish he was Asian.

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:55:08 pm

tarheelmarine wrote:
slym2none wrote:I got to thinking about time-travel too hard one time, and woke up in Texas, working at a diner where this cute redhead waits tables.....

Wait, sorry, that wasn't me - I just watched the latest "Heroes" episode again...

-slym
Hmmm, Slym must secretly wish he was Asian.

(I know there has been a few pics posted... but.....

)

IanAlexavier · Post by **IanAlexavier** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:33:48 pm

A little off topice but... Heros is good

Wouldnt it ROCK to do a Valiant TV series!!! Way too cool.. and I think it would work too!

X-O Dudeowar · Post by **X-O Dudeowar** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:59:16 pm

Alright, got the quotes here:

Omega
Magnus: Tell me about visiting other times. Is there any danger of...
Ivar: Changing history? Everyone asks that. Don't sweat it! History's all relative, anyway ---- if history describes something a certain way, and you go to the time where it happened, then you were always there... so it probably turned out the way history describes just because of you. You may as well just show up and have fun.

Epilogue 1
Ivar: I understand why you want to visit in this century. You've told me a little about your mother... ...but you've got to be careful not to screw up the timeline.

You might be on to something with that "probably." Maybe I'm just looking too far into it in that regard, and Ivar's just not positive himself.

Plus, if he has actually changed history before (or later in the context of the Chaos Effect o.ô), that makes a big difference. I'm still hunting down most of the Timewalker series, so I admittedly don't have a good background in Ivar's exploits.

dellamorte · Post by **dellamorte** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:14:30 pm

I think this boils down to the editors not doing a very good job of keeping the writers in line.

RobInOttawa · Post by **RobInOttawa** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:37:25 am

Was there ever an explanation given as to why the rules of the time arc seemed to change?

When Ivar was introduced in Archer and Armstrong, a bloke from England was sucked into the time arc instead of Ivar. He then ended up at the Stonehenge. Lots of normal people during different time periods had been sucked into time arcs and were brought to Stonehenge as well.

When I read Time Walker #1, it said that only Ivar could pass through the time arcs without being ripped apart due to his genetic makeup. Later, it was revealed that Ivar's offspring could enter the time arcs as well. This also ties into the origin of the Time Walker. Normal people passing through the time arc ended up in pieces.

Did someone change the rules from what Barry Windsor Smith originally intended?

X-O Dudeowar · Post by **X-O Dudeowar** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:12:30 pm

RobInOttawa wrote:Was there ever an explanation given as to why the rules of the time arc seemed to change?

When Ivar was introduced in Archer and Armstrong, a bloke from England was sucked into the time arc instead of Ivar. He then ended up at the Stonehenge. Lots of normal people during different time periods had been sucked into time arcs and were brought to Stonehenge as well.

You're right! I had completely forgotten about that. Man, Time Travel has always been screwy...

tarheelmarine · Post by **tarheelmarine** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:17:32 pm

Don't forget that Omega harbingers can also travel through a time arc.

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