Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by greg »

I find it ironic that the guy who is famous for getting into the comics industry at age 13 and becoming successful is calling two guys trying to become successful in the comics industry more than twice that age "children".

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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by Brother J »

I notice that many here who have been critical of VEI in the past now seem to be supporting them with the news of an upcoming release and the new flow of information that has been finally forthcoming after years of silence.

All I will say is that I do share the concerns of "Triumphant Serial Number" about VEI's past business dealings. Hopefully they can be chalked up to inexperience in the field rather than blatant dishonesty.

As for Shooter, even though I enjoy much of his past work, there are too many different people who had difficulties working with him just to brush it off. It seems like he is a difficult person to work with. I'm guessing he is the type who thinks his way is the only correct way.

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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by Second_Death »

wrunow wrote:I've met Jim Shooter several times now, although I can't say I "know" him personally, but I think the guy is a brilliant writer/editor when things are "right" for him. If any of you remember his panel at Javitz a few years ago when he went through his thought on a couple different comic pages and how they were set up and flowed, we got a look into the his thought process and a real feeling for why he is/was/used to be, so good at what he does.

I think the VEI guys have finally put together a good team with some fresh young "hungry" talent that is appropriate for today's comic market and readers.

The only thing that I will comment about JS is I think when he was in his prime (30's and 40's) when it came to comics he was the smartest guy in the room most of the time, and unfortunately as new generations, techniques, thought processes come into play that changes. Sometimes in business things just don't work out (like the talented chef I fired this week after one week of work), but for some reason with JS, it is always personal, never "his" fault, and he "always" has to belittle and eventually make derogatory comments about the other party. I think this level of "immaturity" has probably why he's where he is today without anything major going on when he really should be moving into the phase of his career where he is revered for his past work like Neal Adams and the other greats of that generation and the young hot guys wanting to work with him so that they could say they collaborated with one of the "legends" of the industry.

I agree with most of your post. VEI is certainly positioned to have success. With the needed capital allowing them to hire capable personnel, the future looks promising if circumstances remain favorable. I wish them the best and look forward to supporting their product when it becomes available. Personally purchased many copies of their hardcovers and most were passed on as gifts. Can't imagine being much more supportive than that.

The problem is with the bold comments. I'm not saying Jim hasn't appeared immature on occasion, but it is worth noting that he is the only party you have applied this term too. Neither Marvel, Valiant, nor VEI handled their relationship with Jim well either. For that matter, how many of us could be accused of doing/saying something immature to some degree even in the last 24 hours with less motivation? Don't recall Jim having anything publicly negative to say about VEI until after the threat of legal action. Am I incorrect? Please provide proof if I am. In the case of Marvel, I don't have memory of the timeline of his responses to that departure but I can understand that he probably wasn't thrilled with the lack of support. Unless new details of been uncovered about the events at Valiant in the 90's, I'm pretty sure none of us would be happy about having "our" business taken. Defiant was sued frivolously and he was forced to defend his "flagship" title. Probably not many if any of us can relate on a professional level with those experiences.

Can't recall the interviews, but have seen in print Jim accepting responsibility at times so I think "never" is a stretch. Considering the financial toll and the amount of stress the experiences with Marvel, Valiant, and Defiant have created, I wouldn't be surprised if Jim has less patience for certain things than he once did. Have never been sued (yet), but pretty sure if a party was pressing legal action, I nor anyone else would consider it to be a favor. Under those circumstances, "children" could be considered a relatively tame reference.

Please don't interpret my comments here as an attack on VEI. Just not willing to promote VEI's position at the unnecessary expense of Jim Shooter. It isn't worth the ethical and moral cost. I wish there were more publicly willing to express the same opinion.

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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by wrunow »

Second_Death wrote:
wrunow wrote:I've met Jim Shooter several times now, although I can't say I "know" him personally, but I think the guy is a brilliant writer/editor when things are "right" for him. If any of you remember his panel at Javitz a few years ago when he went through his thought on a couple different comic pages and how they were set up and flowed, we got a look into the his thought process and a real feeling for why he is/was/used to be, so good at what he does.

I think the VEI guys have finally put together a good team with some fresh young "hungry" talent that is appropriate for today's comic market and readers.

The only thing that I will comment about JS is I think when he was in his prime (30's and 40's) when it came to comics he was the smartest guy in the room most of the time, and unfortunately as new generations, techniques, thought processes come into play that changes. Sometimes in business things just don't work out (like the talented chef I fired this week after one week of work), but for some reason with JS, it is always personal, never "his" fault, and he "always" has to belittle and eventually make derogatory comments about the other party. I think this level of "immaturity" has probably why he's where he is today without anything major going on when he really should be moving into the phase of his career where he is revered for his past work like Neal Adams and the other greats of that generation and the young hot guys wanting to work with him so that they could say they collaborated with one of the "legends" of the industry.

I agree with most of your post. VEI is certainly positioned to have success. With the needed capital allowing them to hire capable personnel, the future looks promising if circumstances remain favorable. I wish them the best and look forward to supporting their product when it becomes available. Personally purchased many copies of their hardcovers and most were passed on as gifts. Can't imagine being much more supportive than that.

The problem is with the bold comments. I'm not saying Jim hasn't appeared immature on occasion, but it is worth noting that he is the only party you have applied this term too. Neither Marvel, Valiant, nor VEI handled their relationship with Jim well either. For that matter, how many of us could be accused of doing/saying something immature to some degree even in the last 24 hours with less motivation? Don't recall Jim having anything publicly negative to say about VEI until after the threat of legal action. Am I incorrect? Please provide proof if I am. In the case of Marvel, I don't have memory of the timeline of his responses to that departure but I can understand that he probably wasn't thrilled with the lack of support. Unless new details of been uncovered about the events at Valiant in the 90's, I'm pretty sure none of us would be happy about having "our" business taken. Defiant was sued frivolously and he was forced to defend his "flagship" title. Probably not many if any of us can relate on a professional level with those experiences.

Can't recall the interviews, but have seen in print Jim accepting responsibility at times so I think "never" is a stretch. Considering the financial toll and the amount of stress the experiences with Marvel, Valiant, and Defiant have created, I wouldn't be surprised if Jim has less patience for certain things than he once did. Have never been sued (yet), but pretty sure if a party was pressing legal action, I nor anyone else would consider it to be a favor. Under those circumstances, "children" could be considered a relatively tame reference.

Please don't interpret my comments here as an attack on VEI. Just not willing to promote VEI's position at the unnecessary expense of Jim Shooter. It isn't worth the ethical and moral cost. I wish there were more publicly willing to express the same opinion.
I'm not really here sticking up for VEI, they can do that for themselves. My comments were based on a pattern that is pretty distinct. I think when acting as a "public" personality, as he is doing on his blog that is read by hundreds of comic fans, calling the VEI guys "children" is kind of disrespectful and immature. He certainly didn't have any problem cashing the checks that were written by the "children" and set himself up there pretty well when he needed a job. Sometimes you need to be a little patient and "get along" which obviously isn't his strong point. But I think the reality is, and what no one here ever really says, cause JS became the VALIANT martyr, is that if he had "got along" in 1992 he'd probably be a wealthy man right now one way or another because the company would have either continued to be wildly successful with his creative leadership, or he would have pocketed a big chunk of that Acclaim money when the time came.
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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by Triumphant Serial Number »

400yrs wrote:
Triumphant Serial Number wrote: It's no different than the old days when there was enough evidence that the Valiant heads were a shady group. The proof wasn't Shooter or his allegations . . . that was one man and one incident One time is nothing. No, the smoke and fire came from Barry Windsor-Smith, who was not Shooter's friend by any means, later having what appeared to be the same exact problems with the Valiant people. THAT was a pattern, just like Shooter and Layton, no friend of Shooter's, are a pattern.

What was the deal with Layton and BWS?

I'm not saying the bolded part above is wrong. Not at all. In fact, it may be completely accurate. However, the VEI guys are in the position to be able to launch a universe that got me excited about comics once. For me, this isn't about supporting VEI or supporting Jim Shooter or hating both or liking both. For me, this is about reading good comics. At this point, I think VEI may be making a good run toward that.
When I reference the old days, I mean between BWS and Voyager. BWS felt he also got the screwjob from them, but kept his integrity, as he puts on his official biography, "I needed my integrity more than their money.”

There was a lot more interesting stuff BWS said in interviews back then about leaving Valiant. I don't know if any of them are here on the boards or not.

Long story short, BWS eventually came to feel a lot more sympathy for Shooter and came to his own realization that his integrity was at stake by associating with Voyager after they were treating him badly.

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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by cshepard81 »

greg wrote:I find it ironic that the guy who is famous for getting into the comics industry at age 13 and becoming successful is calling two guys trying to become successful in the comics industry more than twice that age "children".
At less than half their age, Shooter had a heck of a lot more books under his belt than VEI. Besides, in reading his entire blog comment and his side of the relationship, I think Shooter was speaking more to their maturity than their actual ages. It's possible (though not advisable) for adults to conduct business as if they were children. Even if I wasn't inclined to take Shooter's side, the fact that he and Bob Layton and other professionals seem to have had similar experiences here is telling.

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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by 400yrs »

cshepard81 wrote:
greg wrote:I find it ironic that the guy who is famous for getting into the comics industry at age 13 and becoming successful is calling two guys trying to become successful in the comics industry more than twice that age "children".
At less than half their age, Shooter had a heck of a lot more books under his belt than VEI. Besides, in reading his entire blog comment and his side of the relationship, I think Shooter was speaking more to their maturity than their actual ages. It's possible (though not advisable) for adults to conduct business as if they were children. Even if I wasn't inclined to take Shooter's side, the fact that he and Bob Layton and other professionals seem to have had similar experiences here is telling.
Yeah, but even more telling is that neither Shooter nor Layton have done anything good in almost 20 years. While on the other hand, VEI now employs several guys who have made positive contributions to really good comics over the last several years. We have yet to hear complaints from those employees. And in relation to comics that currently have a chance to be published, that is what matters.

If a few misers whose time in comics has passed have issues they like to complain about frequently over the internet..... which may or may not be entirely accurate stories.... then let them. Meh. The world of comics will continue to move past them as they complain. Those who want to relive the glory days of those creators will continue to believe whatever they say anyway. Meh.
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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by cshepard81 »

400yrs wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:
greg wrote:I find it ironic that the guy who is famous for getting into the comics industry at age 13 and becoming successful is calling two guys trying to become successful in the comics industry more than twice that age "children".
At less than half their age, Shooter had a heck of a lot more books under his belt than VEI. Besides, in reading his entire blog comment and his side of the relationship, I think Shooter was speaking more to their maturity than their actual ages. It's possible (though not advisable) for adults to conduct business as if they were children. Even if I wasn't inclined to take Shooter's side, the fact that he and Bob Layton and other professionals seem to have had similar experiences here is telling.
Yeah, but even more telling is that neither Shooter nor Layton have done anything good in almost 20 years. While on the other hand, VEI now employs several guys who have made positive contributions to really good comics over the last several years. We have yet to hear complaints from those employees. And in relation to comics that currently have a chance to be published, that is what matters.

If a few misers whose time has passed by have issues they like to complain about frequently over the internet..... which may or may not be entirely accurate stories.... then let them. Meh. The world of comics will continue to move past them as they complain.
I don't think the point is whether you think Shooter and Layton have done anything good lately, it's how they say VEI treated them. We've all waited a long time to get new Valiant books. Now that 2012 looks like it'll be the year, if you can turn a blind eye to how VEI has allegedly mistreated some of the people who originally gave us Valiant, then good for you. To me though, to make a sports analogy, if all the starters of the Boston Celtics championship teams of my youth came back to work for the team and then all left due to disputes with the new management, I think I'd find a new team to root for, rather than blame the former players saying they haven't done anything recently and therefore no longer deserve respect.

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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by 400yrs »

cshepard81 wrote:I don't think the point is whether you think Shooter and Layton have done anything good lately, it's how they say VEI treated them. We've all waited a long time to get new Valiant books. Now that 2012 looks like it'll be the year, if you can turn a blind eye to how VEI has allegedly mistreated some of the people who originally gave us Valiant, then good for you. To me though, to make a sports analogy, if all the starters of the Boston Celtics championship teams of my youth came back to work for the team and then all left due to disputes with the new management, I think I'd find a new team to root for, rather than blame the former players saying they haven't done anything recently and therefore no longer deserve respect.

There you go. You said it yourself. Thanks! I didn't even have to say it.
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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by cshepard81 »

400yrs wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:I don't think the point is whether you think Shooter and Layton have done anything good lately, it's how they say VEI treated them. We've all waited a long time to get new Valiant books. Now that 2012 looks like it'll be the year, if you can turn a blind eye to how VEI has allegedly mistreated some of the people who originally gave us Valiant, then good for you. To me though, to make a sports analogy, if all the starters of the Boston Celtics championship teams of my youth came back to work for the team and then all left due to disputes with the new management, I think I'd find a new team to root for, rather than blame the former players saying they haven't done anything recently and therefore no longer deserve respect.

There you go. You said it yourself. Thanks! I didn't even have to say it.
Of course, I don't claim to have been there to witness it. I've read all I can find from all parties involved to base my opinion. I'll continue to support whatever Jim Shooter writes. I hope in his next venture all the details from his scripts can be realized in the finished products. Until then, his blog is a treat that I enjoy every day.

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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by wrunow »

cshepard81 wrote:
400yrs wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:I don't think the point is whether you think Shooter and Layton have done anything good lately, it's how they say VEI treated them. We've all waited a long time to get new Valiant books. Now that 2012 looks like it'll be the year, if you can turn a blind eye to how VEI has allegedly mistreated some of the people who originally gave us Valiant, then good for you. To me though, to make a sports analogy, if all the starters of the Boston Celtics championship teams of my youth came back to work for the team and then all left due to disputes with the new management, I think I'd find a new team to root for, rather than blame the former players saying they haven't done anything recently and therefore no longer deserve respect.

There you go. You said it yourself. Thanks! I didn't even have to say it.
Of course, I don't claim to have been there to witness it. I've read all I can find from all parties involved to base my opinion. I'll continue to support whatever Jim Shooter writes. I hope in his next venture all the details from his scripts can be realized in the finished products. Until then, his blog is a treat that I enjoy every day.
I'll give anything Shooter does in the future a shot also. I enjoy his blog also.

The VEI guys tried, disregarding a lot of peoples advice including my own (well at least to Dino at the time) to give us the VALIANT dream team with Shooter back in charge. I think we need to give them some credit for that. They worked with Layton and Hall too.
Were there some working issues? Obviously!
Were D + J learning as they went? Absolutely!
Should they not have sued Shooter? Probably not!
Are they a lot smarter because of all this? I think so!

So let's just let the past be what it is, over with. I was with Dino when all this stuff was going down in LA a couple of years ago. If I remember correctly he was rightfully pretty upset and had some choice descriptions of JS, but they didn't write a blog and call him names, that's just downright unprofessional. I would think creators or editors would think twice about working with someone who might speak of them in a public forum in that manner if for some reason things didn't work out, wouldn't you?
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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by xodacia81 »

wrunow wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:
400yrs wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:I don't think the point is whether you think Shooter and Layton have done anything good lately, it's how they say VEI treated them. We've all waited a long time to get new Valiant books. Now that 2012 looks like it'll be the year, if you can turn a blind eye to how VEI has allegedly mistreated some of the people who originally gave us Valiant, then good for you. To me though, to make a sports analogy, if all the starters of the Boston Celtics championship teams of my youth came back to work for the team and then all left due to disputes with the new management, I think I'd find a new team to root for, rather than blame the former players saying they haven't done anything recently and therefore no longer deserve respect.

There you go. You said it yourself. Thanks! I didn't even have to say it.
Of course, I don't claim to have been there to witness it. I've read all I can find from all parties involved to base my opinion. I'll continue to support whatever Jim Shooter writes. I hope in his next venture all the details from his scripts can be realized in the finished products. Until then, his blog is a treat that I enjoy every day.
I'll give anything Shooter does in the future a shot also. I enjoy his blog also.

The VEI guys tried, disregarding a lot of peoples advice including my own (well at least to Dino at the time) to give us the VALIANT dream team with Shooter back in charge. I think we need to give them some credit for that. They worked with Layton and Hall too.
Were there some working issues? Obviously!
Were D + J learning as they went? Absolutely!
Should they not have sued Shooter? Probably not!
Are they a lot smarter because of all this? I think so!

So let's just let the past be what it is, over with. I was with Dino when all this stuff was going down in LA a couple of years ago. If I remember correctly he was rightfully pretty upset and had some choice descriptions of JS, but they didn't write a blog and call him names, that's just downright unprofessional. I would think creators or editors would think twice about working with someone who might speak of them in a public forum in that manner if for some reason things didn't work out, wouldn't you?
Yep.

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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by wrunow »

cshepard81 wrote:
400yrs wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:
greg wrote:I find it ironic that the guy who is famous for getting into the comics industry at age 13 and becoming successful is calling two guys trying to become successful in the comics industry more than twice that age "children".
At less than half their age, Shooter had a heck of a lot more books under his belt than VEI. Besides, in reading his entire blog comment and his side of the relationship, I think Shooter was speaking more to their maturity than their actual ages. It's possible (though not advisable) for adults to conduct business as if they were children. Even if I wasn't inclined to take Shooter's side, the fact that he and Bob Layton and other professionals seem to have had similar experiences here is telling.
Yeah, but even more telling is that neither Shooter nor Layton have done anything good in almost 20 years. While on the other hand, VEI now employs several guys who have made positive contributions to really good comics over the last several years. We have yet to hear complaints from those employees. And in relation to comics that currently have a chance to be published, that is what matters.

If a few misers whose time has passed by have issues they like to complain about frequently over the internet..... which may or may not be entirely accurate stories.... then let them. Meh. The world of comics will continue to move past them as they complain.
I don't think the point is whether you think Shooter and Layton have done anything good lately, it's how they say VEI treated them. We've all waited a long time to get new Valiant books. Now that 2012 looks like it'll be the year, if you can turn a blind eye to how VEI has allegedly mistreated some of the people who originally gave us Valiant, then good for you. To me though, to make a sports analogy, if all the starters of the Boston Celtics championship teams of my youth came back to work for the team and then all left due to disputes with the new management, I think I'd find a new team to root for, rather than blame the former players saying they haven't done anything recently and therefore no longer deserve respect.
Since you used the Celt's as an analogy I'll comment that they do a great job at this. I sit with a friend who has courtside seats a couple of times a year at the Garden and the Celt's alumni, JoJo White, Chief, Havlicek, Cowens, Satch, are all over the place talking to the fans and hanging out with the season ticket holders. The Celtics probably do the best job of any professional franchise of connecting with the past successes of their franchise.
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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by cshepard81 »

wrunow wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:
400yrs wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:
greg wrote:I find it ironic that the guy who is famous for getting into the comics industry at age 13 and becoming successful is calling two guys trying to become successful in the comics industry more than twice that age "children".
At less than half their age, Shooter had a heck of a lot more books under his belt than VEI. Besides, in reading his entire blog comment and his side of the relationship, I think Shooter was speaking more to their maturity than their actual ages. It's possible (though not advisable) for adults to conduct business as if they were children. Even if I wasn't inclined to take Shooter's side, the fact that he and Bob Layton and other professionals seem to have had similar experiences here is telling.
Yeah, but even more telling is that neither Shooter nor Layton have done anything good in almost 20 years. While on the other hand, VEI now employs several guys who have made positive contributions to really good comics over the last several years. We have yet to hear complaints from those employees. And in relation to comics that currently have a chance to be published, that is what matters.

If a few misers whose time has passed by have issues they like to complain about frequently over the internet..... which may or may not be entirely accurate stories.... then let them. Meh. The world of comics will continue to move past them as they complain.
I don't think the point is whether you think Shooter and Layton have done anything good lately, it's how they say VEI treated them. We've all waited a long time to get new Valiant books. Now that 2012 looks like it'll be the year, if you can turn a blind eye to how VEI has allegedly mistreated some of the people who originally gave us Valiant, then good for you. To me though, to make a sports analogy, if all the starters of the Boston Celtics championship teams of my youth came back to work for the team and then all left due to disputes with the new management, I think I'd find a new team to root for, rather than blame the former players saying they haven't done anything recently and therefore no longer deserve respect.
Since you used the Celt's as an analogy I'll comment that they do a great job at this. I sit with a friend who has courtside seats a couple of times a year at the Garden and the Celt's alumni, JoJo White, Chief, Havlicek, Cowens, Satch, are all over the place talking to the fans and hanging out with the season ticket holders. The Celtics probably do the best job of any professional franchise of connecting with the past successes of their franchise.
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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by xodacia81 »

cshepard81 wrote:
wrunow wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:
400yrs wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:
greg wrote:I find it ironic that the guy who is famous for getting into the comics industry at age 13 and becoming successful is calling two guys trying to become successful in the comics industry more than twice that age "children".
At less than half their age, Shooter had a heck of a lot more books under his belt than VEI. Besides, in reading his entire blog comment and his side of the relationship, I think Shooter was speaking more to their maturity than their actual ages. It's possible (though not advisable) for adults to conduct business as if they were children. Even if I wasn't inclined to take Shooter's side, the fact that he and Bob Layton and other professionals seem to have had similar experiences here is telling.
Yeah, but even more telling is that neither Shooter nor Layton have done anything good in almost 20 years. While on the other hand, VEI now employs several guys who have made positive contributions to really good comics over the last several years. We have yet to hear complaints from those employees. And in relation to comics that currently have a chance to be published, that is what matters.

If a few misers whose time has passed by have issues they like to complain about frequently over the internet..... which may or may not be entirely accurate stories.... then let them. Meh. The world of comics will continue to move past them as they complain.
I don't think the point is whether you think Shooter and Layton have done anything good lately, it's how they say VEI treated them. We've all waited a long time to get new Valiant books. Now that 2012 looks like it'll be the year, if you can turn a blind eye to how VEI has allegedly mistreated some of the people who originally gave us Valiant, then good for you. To me though, to make a sports analogy, if all the starters of the Boston Celtics championship teams of my youth came back to work for the team and then all left due to disputes with the new management, I think I'd find a new team to root for, rather than blame the former players saying they haven't done anything recently and therefore no longer deserve respect.
Since you used the Celt's as an analogy I'll comment that they do a great job at this. I sit with a friend who has courtside seats a couple of times a year at the Garden and the Celt's alumni, JoJo White, Chief, Havlicek, Cowens, Satch, are all over the place talking to the fans and hanging out with the season ticket holders. The Celtics probably do the best job of any professional franchise of connecting with the past successes of their franchise.
Don't forget the broadcasting: Tommy Heinsohn, Cedric Maxwell, Cousy. I'm out of the area and don't see all the games now, but I think Cousy's been away from it for a while though.
Great players-and broadcasters-just fade away?

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wrunow
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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by wrunow »

xodacia81 wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:
wrunow wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:
400yrs wrote:
cshepard81 wrote: At less than half their age, Shooter had a heck of a lot more books under his belt than VEI. Besides, in reading his entire blog comment and his side of the relationship, I think Shooter was speaking more to their maturity than their actual ages. It's possible (though not advisable) for adults to conduct business as if they were children. Even if I wasn't inclined to take Shooter's side, the fact that he and Bob Layton and other professionals seem to have had similar experiences here is telling.
Yeah, but even more telling is that neither Shooter nor Layton have done anything good in almost 20 years. While on the other hand, VEI now employs several guys who have made positive contributions to really good comics over the last several years. We have yet to hear complaints from those employees. And in relation to comics that currently have a chance to be published, that is what matters.

If a few misers whose time has passed by have issues they like to complain about frequently over the internet..... which may or may not be entirely accurate stories.... then let them. Meh. The world of comics will continue to move past them as they complain.
I don't think the point is whether you think Shooter and Layton have done anything good lately, it's how they say VEI treated them. We've all waited a long time to get new Valiant books. Now that 2012 looks like it'll be the year, if you can turn a blind eye to how VEI has allegedly mistreated some of the people who originally gave us Valiant, then good for you. To me though, to make a sports analogy, if all the starters of the Boston Celtics championship teams of my youth came back to work for the team and then all left due to disputes with the new management, I think I'd find a new team to root for, rather than blame the former players saying they haven't done anything recently and therefore no longer deserve respect.
Since you used the Celt's as an analogy I'll comment that they do a great job at this. I sit with a friend who has courtside seats a couple of times a year at the Garden and the Celt's alumni, JoJo White, Chief, Havlicek, Cowens, Satch, are all over the place talking to the fans and hanging out with the season ticket holders. The Celtics probably do the best job of any professional franchise of connecting with the past successes of their franchise.
Don't forget the broadcasting: Tommy Heinsohn, Cedric Maxwell, Cousy. I'm out of the area and don't see all the games now, but I think Cousy's been away from it for a while though.
Great players-and broadcasters-just fade away?
I spent some time with Tommy this summer as he came to my place for coffee with my friend (courtside seats) plus he knows my dad from Holy Cross in the 50's where he was there on a basketball ticket and dad was there on a football one. He spent a few days painting up here on the coast.

I think if the lockout doesn't end, he's probably all done. He seemed to think the owners weren't giving much and were just gonna wait it out. The big markets make their money no matter what, so they're letting the small market owners who care negotiate and run the show. This week the players start missing checks, it should start to get interesting, they generally make more than the football guys on average, but they spend more too on average. Should be interesting.
I am selling "nothing" on ebay-yet.

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xodacia81
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Re: Anyone read this in a recent Jim Shooter blog post?

Post by xodacia81 »

wrunow wrote:
xodacia81 wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:
wrunow wrote:
cshepard81 wrote:
400yrs wrote: Yeah, but even more telling is that neither Shooter nor Layton have done anything good in almost 20 years. While on the other hand, VEI now employs several guys who have made positive contributions to really good comics over the last several years. We have yet to hear complaints from those employees. And in relation to comics that currently have a chance to be published, that is what matters.

If a few misers whose time has passed by have issues they like to complain about frequently over the internet..... which may or may not be entirely accurate stories.... then let them. Meh. The world of comics will continue to move past them as they complain.
I don't think the point is whether you think Shooter and Layton have done anything good lately, it's how they say VEI treated them. We've all waited a long time to get new Valiant books. Now that 2012 looks like it'll be the year, if you can turn a blind eye to how VEI has allegedly mistreated some of the people who originally gave us Valiant, then good for you. To me though, to make a sports analogy, if all the starters of the Boston Celtics championship teams of my youth came back to work for the team and then all left due to disputes with the new management, I think I'd find a new team to root for, rather than blame the former players saying they haven't done anything recently and therefore no longer deserve respect.
Since you used the Celt's as an analogy I'll comment that they do a great job at this. I sit with a friend who has courtside seats a couple of times a year at the Garden and the Celt's alumni, JoJo White, Chief, Havlicek, Cowens, Satch, are all over the place talking to the fans and hanging out with the season ticket holders. The Celtics probably do the best job of any professional franchise of connecting with the past successes of their franchise.
Don't forget the broadcasting: Tommy Heinsohn, Cedric Maxwell, Cousy. I'm out of the area and don't see all the games now, but I think Cousy's been away from it for a while though.
Great players-and broadcasters-just fade away?
I spent some time with Tommy this summer as he came to my place for coffee with my friend (courtside seats) plus he knows my dad from Holy Cross in the 50's where he was there on a basketball ticket and dad was there on a football one. He spent a few days painting up here on the coast.

I think if the lockout doesn't end, he's probably all done. He seemed to think the owners weren't giving much and were just gonna wait it out. The big markets make their money no matter what, so they're letting the small market owners who care negotiate and run the show. This week the players start missing checks, it should start to get interesting, they generally make more than the football guys on average, but they spend more too on average. Should be interesting.
Of course they spend more. Nobody wants to discuss the real reasons, for fear of being accused of certain things.


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