Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by kevinbastos »

I don't understand any bitterness. More people buy comics, the better. I loved Valiant's attitude over the last year regarding DC's 52. Best thing that could have happened for us.

Success in comics is success for all.

As an old die-hard Marvel guy, I still loved Watchmen.

Many of us are DC people, many Marvel - but we're all Valiant guys, right! :wink:
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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by greg »

400yrs wrote:
greg wrote:
400yrs wrote:To be fair, I see what he is saying. It's the variants that are boosting the initial sales on issue #1. There's no denying that.
Name a recent #1 issue that was successful and has no variants.

Saga. The C2E2 doesn't count because it wasn't a launch book.

On a smaller scale, many other Image #1s. And if we are talking about books with only one variant and not three, then alot more books.



Marvel and DC usually will do one variant cover unless it's one of their main books and they may do more than one variant, but not always. Dynamite comes up with lots of variants. 4 different covers is alot of different covers.

I'm not saying they are over-doing it like Dynamite does, but that I can see his point.


I bet if Warren sends him a copy of the book, he will read it and will say good things about it. Rob loves comics. He has lots of haters though.
4 covers is not even in the Top 150 of recent comic books with a lot of covers.

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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by 400yrs »

greg wrote: 4 covers is not even in the Top 150 of recent comic books with a lot of covers.

Do you have a list? I bet a bunch of those are Dynamite (who doesn't really publish that many different titles).
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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by MarrowMan »

Crow331 wrote:I just sent rob a tweet:

@robertliefeld VFans are strong! http://ValiantFans.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has keeping the flame going for 10+ yrs. How has http://Youngbloodfans.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; been doing?
404 Not Found :thumb:
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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by greg »

400yrs wrote:
greg wrote: 4 covers is not even in the Top 150 of recent comic books with a lot of covers.
Do you have a list? I bet a bunch of those are Dynamite (who doesn't really publish that many different titles).
Turns out it's 390 books with 5 or more variants:
http://www.cgcdata.com/cgc/VariantMadness.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

4 variants is outside the Top 390.

Publisher (number of books with 5 or more variants)
Marvel Comics 133
Image/Top Cow 35
Dynamite Entertainment 32
Avatar Press 30
Image Comics 23
D.C. Comics 21
IDW Publishing 21
Zenescope Entertainment 16
Aspen 6
Boom! Studios 5
Chaos! Comics 5
Dark Horse Comics 4
Devil's Due 4
Harris 4
Marvel/Icon 4
Dreamwave Productions 4
Image/Cliffhanger 3
Darkchylde Entertainment 3
Coffin Comics 3

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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by paradise »

Rob's comment was snarky but he's not a bad guy. Know the guy personally, and he's actually a cool guy, VERY passionate about the industry.

And if you look at the new Extreme relaunch, it's mostly fantastic stuff. He's let go of most of the "I am ROB" mentality and has let the new writers do their own thing. Joe Keatinge's Glory is FANTASTIC and you should all check it out. Prophet is AMAZING, one of my favorite reads right now.

People take Rob's internet comments to heart, but if you had received as much hate tweets as Rob does, you'd be snarky too. I have had to straighten a few idiots out in my time, specially when Rob is at my store doing a signing and they get out of hand.
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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by Crow331 »

MarrowMan wrote:
Crow331 wrote:I just sent rob a tweet:

@robertliefeld VFans are strong! http://ValiantFans.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has keeping the flame going for 10+ yrs. How has http://Youngbloodfans.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; been doing?
404 Not Found :thumb:

:lol: I was kidding. There was never a youngbloodfans.com ... that was my point :D No one has been holding the flame for Youngblood!

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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by iwantvaliant »

I'm really enjoying this thread.
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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by 400yrs »

Thanks. I dropped it into excel. With a quick 10 second glance, many of these aren't recent.
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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by greg »

400yrs wrote:Thanks. I dropped it into excel. With a quick 10 second glance, many of these aren't recent.
I got rid of "The Spirit"... (re-)pull the newer list, it's a little cleaner.

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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by superman-prime »

to be fair rob can byte armstrongs SQUEE

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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

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Never been a fan, never will be. Sorry!
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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by 400yrs »

greg wrote:
400yrs wrote:Thanks. I dropped it into excel. With a quick 10 second glance, many of these aren't recent.
I got rid of "The Spirit"... (re-)pull the newer list, it's a little cleaner.

One line less. :lol:

I used the original pull and wiped out all books before 2001. USM #1 in 2001 seems like a good break point to the current age of the comic market. Then sorted by publisher.

From there, Dynamite is a consistent approx 9.7% of the total variant output as well as the individual issues by count..... So nothing there. The only thing that really sticks out in regards to Dynamite is the 23 variants for Green Hornet #1 which blows everything else away.

In general though, Dynamite has always been known as the variant gimmick company. That's why Rob threw that out there. He probably doesn't know anything about this new Valiant at all. And in all honesty, any pub is good pub a week before it hits the stands and having Rob Liefeld hating on the book may actually be very beneficial.



Thanks for that pull though. I plan to look at it a bit more, but not in relation to DF (Dynamite). Just so you know though, that list counts all printings as "variants".

For instance, Chew #1 - listed as having 5 variants, which is not the case at all. At release, there was only one book. Later, Larry's comics did the only "variant". So the count should be 2 - 1 reg, one variant. The others that are being counted are the second, third and fourth prints.
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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by greg »

400yrs wrote:Thanks for that pull though. I plan to look at it a bit more, but not in relation to DF (Dynamite). Just so you know though, that list counts all printings as "variants".

For instance, Chew #1 - listed as having 5 variants, which is not the case at all. At release, there was only one book. Later, Larry's comics did the only "variant". So the count should be 2 - 1 reg, one variant. The others that are being counted are the second, third and fourth prints.
I've re-run the report filtering for 2001-present and requiring the same month/year (when noted) for the books to count as variants. That should eliminate the later printings.
There are still 293 books with 5 or more variants.
http://www.cgcdata.com/cgc/VariantMadness2.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:thumb:

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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by kevinbastos »

REAL Tweet

Walking Dead and Saga are as hot as they come in the business. Smoking red hot. To fly higher than their numbers is market manipulation.

That sounds like calling their numbers.

Liefeld hating on Valiant may be the best thing to happen just before the launch.
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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by Tim »

Crow331 wrote:No one has been holding the flame for Youngblood!
Jonesy and I have. :(

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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by MarrowMan »

Crow331 wrote:
MarrowMan wrote:
Crow331 wrote:I just sent rob a tweet:

@robertliefeld VFans are strong! http://ValiantFans.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has keeping the flame going for 10+ yrs. How has http://Youngbloodfans.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; been doing?
404 Not Found :thumb:

:lol: I was kidding. There was never a youngbloodfans.com ... that was my point :D No one has been holding the flame for Youngblood!
LOL A Puddle of *SQUEE* has more depth and entertainment value.
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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by greg »

Larry's Comics seems to be agreeing with Rob.

LarrysComics.net ‏ @LarrysComics @Scott_MDavis I think @robertliefeld, a creator w decades in the industry is calling foul, on an OBVIOUS foul. #comicmarket

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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by Crow331 »

Uh oh ... and Rob responds to Warren. Now it's getting ugly. Though Warren should take the high road at this point

robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld Quoting my fave imp "I know how this game is played" @warrensimons don't get your shorts crumpled.

Warren Simons ‏ @warrensimons you've mistaken me for someone who gets his shorts crumpled over things like this, @robertliefeld. but i'm proud of the creative team...

Warren Simons ‏ @warrensimons ...and my colleagues who busted their *SQUEE* for a year to hit this #...

Warren Simons ‏ @warrensimons ...and this number comes from the retailers, who we love and can't thank enough for supporting X-O like this. This is just the start.

robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld I want all comics to sell well and I have ZERO problems with market manipulation!!

robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld Look between skyrocketing Walking Dead back issues and 1st app. of DC 52 characters, Talons...hard 2 find Image #1's...speculation is back!

robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld But sometimes a number is too damn obvious and invites skepticism. Fly too close to the sun your wings get burned Icarus.

robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld So the owner is a buyer! RT @LarrysComics there's existing collector/investor base ( including @dinesh_s ) that WILL not let @Valiant fail.

robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld I'm confident a good journalist will sniff this out and identity it just like the Cowboys and Aliens fix from a few years back.

Philip Cochran ‏ @JPC_76 @warrensimons @robertliefeld what's the deal rob there is room for XO and as a fan I am excited to see it return.

robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld more power to em! @JPC_76 @warrensimons all fun stuff!

robertliefeld robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld This turned out to be a fun Thursday after all!

robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld Kobe didn't go for the scoring title, so Valiant gave it a shot!

robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld Because they "bought the gross" RT @johnwordballoon @robertliefeld I agree. Something doesn't smell right

robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld Walking Dead and Saga are as hot as they come in the business. Smoking red hot. To fly higher than their numbers is market manipulation.

robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld I have 10 comics in circulation right now @jakemcgill what do I have to be sad. I appreciate the entertainment Valiant is providing.

robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld If the-greatest-retailer-that-ever-lived-who-no-longer-has-a-retail-business is supporting you, screaming praise----it's shifty. (who is Rob referring to here?)


I think someone should to do a story on this! LOL! There is no such thing as bad publicity. Rob sounds like the same arrogant *SQUEE* he has always been!

EDIT: (some of these were repeated above, took me a while to put them together)

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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by bobby97801 »

greg wrote:Larry's Comics seems to be agreeing with Rob.

LarrysComics.net ‏ @LarrysComics @Scott_MDavis I think @robertliefeld, a creator w decades in the industry is calling foul, on an OBVIOUS foul. #comicmarket
Sounds like Larry is feeling like a jackass for not getting more x- o.... Don't worry Larry your customers can go to comic paradise for their valiant fix :lol:

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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by BugsySig »

kevinbastos wrote:REAL Tweet

Walking Dead and Saga are as hot as they come in the business. Smoking red hot. To fly higher than their numbers is market manipulation.

That sounds like calling their numbers.

Liefeld hating on Valiant may be the best thing to happen just before the launch.
Twitter is blowing up right now between the 42,000 announcement and the Leifeld comment. If it wasn't for the NFL Draft, @ValiantComics might be trending right now.

Just for the record, I bought all four of the relaunched Extreme Books and have been sticking up for Leifeld on the CBR boards regarding his involvement in the New 52 books. But some of Robs comments are not just snarky, but just plain rude. As has been said, good business for one Indy is good business for all indies.

And I'm sorry, but I have no desire to read Saga, and the issue with Walking Dead's numbers was already addressed by Paradise. So suck it Rob...and BMB for that matter.
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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by Tim »

I'm not sure I'd call it a foul, but it does reflect the state of the industry where you have to have 4 variants, plaster news-hungry comics sites with tiny bits of inconsequential info, lobby the *SQUEE* out of retailers, and otherwise create more hype than the product can ever possibly live up to to sell 40,000 comic books (to retailers....not necessarily readers, mind you)

Not Valiant's game. Just playin' ball unfortunately.

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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by BugsySig »

Not sure who this dude is, but I am suing for stealing my intellectual property :lol:
“@VinceHernandez8: Great to hear @ValiantComics has a hit with XO. A win for an indy publisher is a win for ALL indy publishers #comicmarket”
Edit: had to get this in...My favorite tweet thus far in response to RL's comments...
“@MichaelSacal: @Scott_MDavis @robertliefeld @ValiantComics this does not bode well for Deathmate 2.”
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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by Heath »

I still don't understand Twitter.
I would agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

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Re: Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

Post by 400yrs »

I follow Warren and Valiant on twitter, but how in the hell do you make sense of twitter wars? Is there somewhere I need to click to get everythin in context between larry, liefeld, warren and everyone else?

I don't get it. Me feel old and worfless.
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