February 2014 Comic Sales

[SJS4]

Boy you really tore up that straw man!

FWIW "Unity" has been a good book so far, but it clearly has nothing to do with Unity. Any rational can see that naming it Unity was just a marketing gimmick to hype it up.

Lets be clear here: Unity was THE defining event of original Valiant. It was a universe altering event that had organized and connected the entire set of books Valiant was publishing.

The new Unity book? A solid story, but nothing particularly special about. As i said, it is almost the exact same concept as the original "Secret Weapons" title launched by original valiant (starring Eternal Warrior and Livewire). The Unity doesn't even make sense within the book itself, except for a few awkward places where the first team that got slaughtered were called Unity (despite Harada calling his other enforcement teams Eggbreakers).

The ONLY reason they titled the book Unity was to get some hype. It worked...they sold a ton of the first issue. Unfortunately sales of the title have dropped like a rock since then, which is where that "hard evidence" you asked about comes in.

[BugsySig]

CBR has more detailed breakdown. Forgive my lack of charty making skills, but here is the link:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=51538" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Based on monthly dollars, Valiant ranks 7th out of the 16 companies listed, with $302,701.35 reported.

Thanks for the link

That's pretty impressive. You can add another $30k in trade sales to that number, too. Of course that's not what VEI takes home for profit, but compared to the other companies, that's not bad at all. Then there's digital, international, merchandise and foreign language sales.

It's also important to note they give % of units (1.28) and dollars (1.30) out of the Top 300 comics, which are both higher than the % of total comics for the month since every VEI book is in the Top 300...reinforcing Greg's earlier point.

BOOM! shipped over 20 books last month and had the same number in the Top 300, 9, as VEI. So with publishing over a dozen books outside the Top 300, which can't produce more than a few thousand dollars in sales, and licensing fees for many of their titles, I would imagine VALIANT turns a higher profit.

One thing that you might need to take into account here is that even if Valiant pays no licensing fees, there was a chunk paid up-front to acquire the rights to the Valiant stable of characters. I won't pretend to know how much was paid or whether some portion of profit goes to finance that/repay investors/etc. every month, but it's something that most companies don't have to consider.

True, but for month-to-month comparison's sake, it's a good indicator. We don't know how much any of these publisher's pay out to investors or what money they owe for loans they have taken.

CBR has more detailed breakdown. Forgive my lack of charty making skills, but here is the link:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=51538" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Based on monthly dollars, Valiant ranks 7th out of the 16 companies listed, with $302,701.35 reported.

There position relative to other companies is good, but as I'm sure most here know, Valiant doesn't see anywhere near $300k. I don't know what the actual number is, but I would guess closer to $75k.

I don't mean to be negative about it, but that still is not much money considering they have to pay all their employees, bills (rent, power, etc.) and eventually have to pay back the loans.

Of course that's not what they are taking home, it's an indicator of their sales compared to others as you said. No company ever earns what they sell.

Every company has the same costs to pay, give or take, depending on the bulk they publish and the quality of creators and other employees. So it's a moot point to bring up unless we know the actual monthly costs and salaries VEI pays.

[FormerReader]

CBR has more detailed breakdown. Forgive my lack of charty making skills, but here is the link:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=51538" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Based on monthly dollars, Valiant ranks 7th out of the 16 companies listed, with $302,701.35 reported.

There position relative to other companies is good, but as I'm sure most here know, Valiant doesn't see anywhere near $300k. I don't know what the actual number is, but I would guess closer to $75k.

I don't mean to be negative about it, but that still is not much money considering they have to pay all their employees, bills (rent, power, etc.) and eventually have to pay back the loans.

Of course that's not what they are taking home, it's an indicator of their sales compared to others as you said. No company ever earns what they sell.

Every company has the same costs to pay, give or take, depending on the bulk they publish and the quality of creators and other employees. So it's a moot point to bring up unless we know the actual monthly costs and salaries VEI pays.

Very true. None of us know what Valiant brings in or what they pay out in a month so we can only speculate. I'm hoping it is enough to keep them going for years to come.

[Phoenix8008]

Boy you really tore up that straw man!

If you say so.

FWIW "Unity" has been a good book so far, but it clearly has nothing to do with Unity. Any rational can see that naming it Unity was just a marketing gimmick to hype it up.

Lets be clear here: Unity was THE defining event of original Valiant. It was a universe altering event that had organized and connected the entire set of books Valiant was publishing.

Let's be clear here: That VH1 universe has nothing to do with this VEI universe. VEI had a trademark for a title and they decided to use it differently. Sorry that bugs you so much. Yes, companies use marketing to sell their products and give them the best chance to succeed. Again, sorry that bugs you so much.

The new Unity book? A solid story, but nothing particularly special about. As i said, it is almost the exact same concept as the original "Secret Weapons" title launched by original valiant (starring Eternal Warrior and Livewire). The Unity doesn't even make sense within the book itself, except for a few awkward places where the first team that got slaughtered were called Unity (despite Harada calling his other enforcement teams Eggbreakers).

Glad to hear that you like the book some based on it's own merits.

The ONLY reason they titled the book Unity was to get some hype. It worked...they sold a ton of the first issue. Unfortunately sales of the title have dropped like a rock since then, which is where that "hard evidence" you asked about comes in.

Considering that from the first mention of this title, they told us it would be different from the Unity of old, I don't feel like I was lied to or mislead. Yes, the sales numbers dropped off alot after #1. Show me a title where that hasn't happened. My point is that there is no proof that the dropoff in numbers is for the reason you are stating, i.e. that people are all upset about this Unity not being the same as the previous Unity. And if that isn't your point, then I must be back in the field beating a straw man again.

[lorddunlow]

Friendly PSA:

As a reminder, the forum sensor is cock friendly. So calling someone a *SQUEE* is completely allowed.

A b@stard, however, is a no-go.


Just having a little fun here guys. Continue with the debate.

Edit: Well, look at that. Greg added d!ck to the censor.

Nothing to see here folks. Nothing to see.

[MarkRoseHFX]

Friendly PSA:

As a reminder, the forum sensor is cock friendly. So calling someone a *SQUEE* is completely allowed.

A b@stard, however, is a no-go.


Just having a little fun here guys. Continue with the debate.

Edit: Well, look at that. Greg added d!ck to the censor.

Nothing to see here folks. Nothing to see.

Dynamite can suck my balls

just testing

[Aram]

Only The Valiant #100 has a great interview with Dinesh ... I don't think he discloses the final number it took to acquire the characters but I think it was hinted that it was just above 7 figures. Maybe someone who has a better memory than me can weigh in. I'll try re-listen to it later tonight.

Approximately $700,000 or more, prior to the legal costs that followed. I'm 99% positive that I've seen the actual auction figure in a legal brief or something that I came across once, but I've also seen tons of articles with random numbers as well so it's all a bit of a blur.

A safe bet is between 700,000+ initial and 1.7 million+ total invested cost before regular ongoing Publication Started in May 2012.

It has been stated that "millions, but not tens of millions" had been raised by investors, so in my opinion if Valiant is even close to breaking even or pulling in a slim profit at this point, there is absolutely no reason to worry about anything. The IP is well worth the small (relative) amount that has been invested and I would not be surprised if DC would try to buy Valiant at some point.

All Valiant needs now is 1 decently reviewed movie to break 10 million or more at the box office, while exceeding production costs and then the publicity alone should cement future operations for years to come.

1 semi-blockbuster and wise management of the company.. and it could be safe for decades!

I don't think any of that is unrealistic given the awesome properties and potential and I think there must be a 5 and 10 year plan in place and not much is likely to shake any foundation before then.. which should give us (WORST CASE SCENARIO)at least that long of amazing books..

WHICH WOULD BE MORE THAN ANY PRIOR VALIANT COMPANY RUNS..

[kjjohanson]

All Valiant needs now is 1 decently reviewed movie to break 10 million or more at the box office, while exceeding production costs and then the publicity alone should cement future operations for years to come.

A couple things:
1. I don't think reviews make a huge difference when it comes to superhero movies.
2. I think you missed a "0" in your box office figure.
3. Unlike Marvel and DC, Valiant isn't going to be making its own movies. So the key here is getting a decent deal on selling the rights for Valiant characters. This is mostly a guess, but I imagine that a movie studio would want some certainly of getting access to all of Valiant's characters in a deal, since the number of identifiable characters is nowhere near what Marvel and DC has.

[Aram]

All Valiant needs now is 1 decently reviewed movie to break 10 million or more at the box office, while exceeding production costs and then the publicity alone should cement future operations for years to come.

A couple things:
1. I don't think reviews make a huge difference when it comes to superhero movies.
2. I think you missed a "0" in your box office figure.
3. Unlike Marvel and DC, Valiant isn't going to be making its own movies. So the key here is getting a decent deal on selling the rights for Valiant characters. This is mostly a guess, but I imagine that a movie studio would want some certainly of getting access to all of Valiant's characters in a deal, since the number of identifiable characters is nowhere near what Marvel and DC has.

I wasn't off on my numbers because I wasn't referring to Valiant making lots of money off the movie rights or royalties, just getting enough "free" advertising to draw attention to the comics and thereby likely boost sales numbers. If even only a few hundred thousand comic readers/fans are exposed to Valiant through a decent movie, the resulting sales numbers on floppies and trades could easily fly upwards greatly, thereby providing long term sustainability and profit for the publishing aspect.

[Tim]

If even only a few hundred thousand comic readers/fans are exposed to Valiant through a decent movie..

I don't think there's such thing as a few hundred thousand comics readers anymore.

[Donovan]

I hope Valiant stays away from movies and video games, only because IMO if they aren't 100% A+++++ Six-out-of-five-stars awesome, they stand more of a chance of turning people OFF of the brand.

And THIS early in the company's history, with an already stretched staff, I think the chances of hitting a home run in a different medium are low.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, of course!

[MoonChild]

I recall 800,000 is around what they paid for valiant.

[Phoenix8008]

I hope Valiant stays away from movies and video games, only because IMO if they aren't 100% A+++++ Six-out-of-five-stars awesome, they stand more of a chance of turning people OFF of the brand.

And THIS early in the company's history, with an already stretched staff, I think the chances of hitting a home run in a different medium are low.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, of course!

I don't know about video games, but based on the new interview on comicvine, they ARE moving forward with movie plans. Though they are doing it slow and steady like everything else. Sounds like they're doing as much work for it in house as possible. If it was possible for them to make their own movie studio like Marvel has, I'm sure they would. As for avoiding doing a comic book movie because they're harder to make excellent than a normal action movie...

This is why you do Bloodshot as the first movie! You make it as real world as possible, with the little bit of sci-fi needed to explain the nanites he has. Everything else is like a Jason Bourne movie: Fast paced action, journey to find identity, shadowy organization trying to contain/kill him. No spandex, no up front things showing it's a comic book world. You can have easter eggs in the background like a commercial for Harada Industries on TV, or a financial report talking about HGC stocks. You can even do some camera tricks and film the 'real' memories in live action while making the 'implanted' memories all in CG (or use some other change to the look of it so that there is that visual difference between the real events and the implanted memories). Not sure how much of the story you do though. Just first arc, or first and second arc? If you cover the first two arcs in the same movie, then you do a Harbinger movie covering their first two arcs, then you can do a Harbinger Wars movie after that crossing them over!