What will be the first VEI book to surpass its VH1?

[The Noto]

Just thinking about this for fun speculation.

But in regular issue numbers, which title do you think will be the first to surpass the original count. I think if everything continues normally, it'll be Archer & Armstrong. But who knows if numbering will change or not.

[kjjohanson]

Unity

[Donovan]

/End Thread.

[Beware Cyclops]

Most. Anticlimactic. Thread. Ever!

Unity

My guess is A&A sometime end of 2014/start of 2015.

[peepholism]

Perhaps more interesting (and a logical extension of the OP) - which series will pass their original numbers AND how long will each series last? I see Harbinger breaking 41 easily but X-O for example seems a tougher proposition. And Eternal Warrior already seems to have hit an obstacle given how long the original lasted. An interesting conversation.

[SJS4]

A&A has the best chance to do it first, but with Delinquents announced i wonder if the A&A regular series might be going "on hiatus" in the near future. Harbinger then becomes the most likely.

Unfortunately EW, Shadowman, and Bloodshot already appear to be out of the running.

[Phoenix8008]

A&A has the best chance to do it first, but with Delinquents announced i wonder if the A&A regular series might be going "on hiatus" in the near future. Harbinger then becomes the most likely.

Unfortunately EW, Shadowman, and Bloodshot already appear to be out of the running.

Why do you assume that EW or Shadowman are out of the running? EW is on hiatus and I expect it will return with it's original numbering even. As far as we know, Shadowman is doing it's mini series, then going back to it's regular numbering as well, considering that the writer has a year or more of material to tell. Unless they just keep doing mini series for it for some reason.

[xodacia81]

Harbinger or Archer & Armstrong. I think it's very likely to be Harby, which is apparently set, along with XO, for at least another year and a half of stories. That takes both books to the late 30's, early 40s. The big question is, will any of these books ever hit 100?

[ShadowTuga]

A&A has the best chance to do it first, but with Delinquents announced i wonder if the A&A regular series might be going "on hiatus" in the near future. Harbinger then becomes the most likely.

Unfortunately EW, Shadowman, and Bloodshot already appear to be out of the running.

Why do you assume that EW or Shadowman are out of the running? EW is on hiatus and I expect it will return with it's original numbering even. As far as we know, Shadowman is doing it's mini series, then going back to it's regular numbering as well, considering that the writer has a year or more of material to tell. Unless they just keep doing mini series for it for some reason.

I think they're testing the waters for this type of releases. Maybe some of the "not so good in terms of numbers" books will get a pump from a new number one, every year or so. I'd understand this from a business POV, but it would *SQUEE* me off, I'll be honest. Numbering is not that important in the end of the day (Quality in writing and art is), and let's face it it IS/WAS???? a big scary turn-off for many people. But still, a testimony of the quality of an ongoing(as in every month, "with no ending in sight") book is longevity, I guess?

Or...
this End Times arc a comic that is so good and a gamechanger, they feel they might reach the non-VEI reader and make a home-run by putting it into a mini-series and then luring people onto the ongoing. Do I see VEI pulling a Dark Knight Returns?
Pure speculation here, btw.

[jmatt]

The first? It's gotta be AA. The original run had 26 issues. They'll be there before the end of the year.

[mateo107]

I guess Quantum & Woody doesn't count because it's not "VH1", but my question is does the new series have to surpass 21 issues or 32 issues?

[Phoenix8008]

The first? It's gotta be AA. The original run had 26 issues. They'll be there before the end of the year.

Not the first. As kjjohanson said above, Unity has already surpassed it's VH1 counterpart which only had two issues, #0 and #1. But unless A&A goes on 'hiatus' for awhile (for the Delinquints series) then yes, it will probably be the next title to surpass it's predecessor.

[kjjohanson]

The first? It's gotta be AA. The original run had 26 issues. They'll be there before the end of the year.

Not the first. As kjjohanson said above, Unity has already surpassed it's VH1 counterpart which only had two issues, #0 and #1. But unless A&A goes on 'hiatus' for awhile (for the Delinquints series) then yes, it will probably be the next title to surpass it's predecessor.

I should say that I only chimed in with the Unity snark because, well before this thread had been created, I had eagerly been looking forward to the time when a book would pass its original numbers (especially A&A, which is my favorite book and looked as if it would be the first), so I could point that out, and then realized that some dumbass would note that Unity had already done so.

Of course, Unity was never intended to last longer than a couple issues, so the key, in my mind, was a series outliving its VH1 numbering is a sign of success. I wouldn't be surprised if VEI does move to a series-of-miniseries to have a constant flow of numbers 1s, if it helps with sales, but it would be nice if they do keep a running tally of the overall numbering visible somewhere (maybe on the recap page?)

[leonmallett]

A&A has the best chance to do it first, but with Delinquents announced i wonder if the A&A regular series might be going "on hiatus" in the near future. Harbinger then becomes the most likely.

Unfortunately EW, Shadowman, and Bloodshot already appear to be out of the running.

Why do you assume that EW or Shadowman are out of the running? EW is on hiatus and I expect it will return with it's original numbering even. As far as we know, Shadowman is doing it's mini series, then going back to it's regular numbering as well, considering that the writer has a year or more of material to tell. Unless they just keep doing mini series for it for some reason.

I think they're testing the waters for this type of releases. Maybe some of the "not so good in terms of numbers" books will get a pump from a new number one, every year or so. I'd understand this from a business POV, but it would *SQUEE* me off, I'll be honest. Numbering is not that important in the end of the day (Quality in writing and art is), and let's face it it IS/WAS???? a big scary turn-off for many people. But still, a testimony of the quality of an ongoing(as in every month, "with no ending in sight") book is longevity, I guess?

Or...
this End Times arc a comic that is so good and a gamechanger, they feel they might reach the non-VEI reader and make a home-run by putting it into a mini-series and then luring people onto the ongoing. Do I see VEI pulling a Dark Knight Returns?
Pure speculation here, btw.

Things is, the numbers thing does not stack up with Quantum and Woody's recent sales performance yet sustained numbering, does it?

[ShadowTuga]

A&A has the best chance to do it first, but with Delinquents announced i wonder if the A&A regular series might be going "on hiatus" in the near future. Harbinger then becomes the most likely.

Unfortunately EW, Shadowman, and Bloodshot already appear to be out of the running.

Why do you assume that EW or Shadowman are out of the running? EW is on hiatus and I expect it will return with it's original numbering even. As far as we know, Shadowman is doing it's mini series, then going back to it's regular numbering as well, considering that the writer has a year or more of material to tell. Unless they just keep doing mini series for it for some reason.

I think they're testing the waters for this type of releases. Maybe some of the "not so good in terms of numbers" books will get a pump from a new number one, every year or so. I'd understand this from a business POV, but it would *SQUEE* me off, I'll be honest. Numbering is not that important in the end of the day (Quality in writing and art is), and let's face it it IS/WAS???? a big scary turn-off for many people. But still, a testimony of the quality of an ongoing(as in every month, "with no ending in sight") book is longevity, I guess?

Or...
this End Times arc a comic that is so good and a gamechanger, they feel they might reach the non-VEI reader and make a home-run by putting it into a mini-series and then luring people onto the ongoing. Do I see VEI pulling a Dark Knight Returns?
Pure speculation here, btw.

Things is, the numbers thing does not stack up with Quantum and Woody's recent sales performance yet sustained numbering, does it?

Q&W is not that bad in sales, is it? Mid-tier level, just behind the Big Guns (X-O, Unity, Harbinger, A&A)?
Shadowman has been consistently a low-tier book in terms of sales, for over a year and a half. I understand it's the first title to get a new shot in the arm, via a mini-series/new number one issue.

Leon, I'm confused now. Sorry for my non-native understanding of the english language, mate. You saying that Quantum & Woody should get the mini-series treatment too? Or quite the opposite?

[leonmallett]

A&A has the best chance to do it first, but with Delinquents announced i wonder if the A&A regular series might be going "on hiatus" in the near future. Harbinger then becomes the most likely.

Unfortunately EW, Shadowman, and Bloodshot already appear to be out of the running.

Why do you assume that EW or Shadowman are out of the running? EW is on hiatus and I expect it will return with it's original numbering even. As far as we know, Shadowman is doing it's mini series, then going back to it's regular numbering as well, considering that the writer has a year or more of material to tell. Unless they just keep doing mini series for it for some reason.

I think they're testing the waters for this type of releases. Maybe some of the "not so good in terms of numbers" books will get a pump from a new number one, every year or so. I'd understand this from a business POV, but it would *SQUEE* me off, I'll be honest. Numbering is not that important in the end of the day (Quality in writing and art is), and let's face it it IS/WAS???? a big scary turn-off for many people. But still, a testimony of the quality of an ongoing(as in every month, "with no ending in sight") book is longevity, I guess?

Or...
this End Times arc a comic that is so good and a gamechanger, they feel they might reach the non-VEI reader and make a home-run by putting it into a mini-series and then luring people onto the ongoing. Do I see VEI pulling a Dark Knight Returns?
Pure speculation here, btw.

Things is, the numbers thing does not stack up with Quantum and Woody's recent sales performance yet sustained numbering, does it?

Q&W is not that bad in sales, is it? Mid-tier level, just behind the Big Guns (X-O, Unity, Harbinger, A&A)?
Shadowman has been consistently a low-tier book in terms of sales, for over a year and a half. I understand it's the first title to get a new shot in the arm, via a mini-series/new number one issue.

Leon, I'm confused now. Sorry for my non-native understanding of the english language, mate. You saying that Quantum & Woody should get the mini-series treatment too? Or quite the opposite?

No worries, I don't think I was too clear.

I really don't understand VEI's strategy about ongoings vs minis as they have no been clear (IMHO) about resumption of ongoing status etc. Therefore I do not argue for minis as such.

My point is that Q&W seems on a clear downward trajectory, yet despite maintaining a rapidly falling sales pattern (the worst selling VEI book after 8 issues), is maintaining it numbering. It is in the 'not so good in terms of numbers' category by those estimates yet shows no signs of those kinds of changes to its 'run'.

[ShadowTuga]

A&A has the best chance to do it first, but with Delinquents announced i wonder if the A&A regular series might be going "on hiatus" in the near future. Harbinger then becomes the most likely.

Unfortunately EW, Shadowman, and Bloodshot already appear to be out of the running.

Why do you assume that EW or Shadowman are out of the running? EW is on hiatus and I expect it will return with it's original numbering even. As far as we know, Shadowman is doing it's mini series, then going back to it's regular numbering as well, considering that the writer has a year or more of material to tell. Unless they just keep doing mini series for it for some reason.

I think they're testing the waters for this type of releases. Maybe some of the "not so good in terms of numbers" books will get a pump from a new number one, every year or so. I'd understand this from a business POV, but it would *SQUEE* me off, I'll be honest. Numbering is not that important in the end of the day (Quality in writing and art is), and let's face it it IS/WAS???? a big scary turn-off for many people. But still, a testimony of the quality of an ongoing(as in every month, "with no ending in sight") book is longevity, I guess?

Or...
this End Times arc a comic that is so good and a gamechanger, they feel they might reach the non-VEI reader and make a home-run by putting it into a mini-series and then luring people onto the ongoing. Do I see VEI pulling a Dark Knight Returns?
Pure speculation here, btw.

Things is, the numbers thing does not stack up with Quantum and Woody's recent sales performance yet sustained numbering, does it?

Q&W is not that bad in sales, is it? Mid-tier level, just behind the Big Guns (X-O, Unity, Harbinger, A&A)?
Shadowman has been consistently a low-tier book in terms of sales, for over a year and a half. I understand it's the first title to get a new shot in the arm, via a mini-series/new number one issue.

Leon, I'm confused now. Sorry for my non-native understanding of the english language, mate. You saying that Quantum & Woody should get the mini-series treatment too? Or quite the opposite?

No worries, I don't think I was too clear.

I really don't understand VEI's strategy about ongoings vs minis as they have no been clear (IMHO) about resumption of ongoing status etc. Therefore I do not argue for minis as such.

My point is that Q&W seems on a clear downward trajectory, yet despite maintaining a rapidly falling sales pattern (the worst selling VEI book after 8 issues), is maintaining it numbering. It is in the 'not so good in terms of numbers' category by those estimates yet shows no signs of those kinds of changes to its 'run'.

Thanks for clearing that up, mate. And for your patience.

As for Q&W changes- I think the Delinquents qualifies as a different strategy/change to it's "run"?

[kjjohanson]

My point is that Q&W seems on a clear downward trajectory, yet despite maintaining a rapidly falling sales pattern (the worst selling VEI book after 8 issues), is maintaining it numbering.

Isn't it the most recent book to reach 8 issues? I think that's just the general trend with Valiant books. With the exception of Unity, hasn't each successive premiere issue and subsequent issue had fewer copies that the previous launch?

[dornwolf]

Rai as long as they don't actually switch Rais half-way through.

[leonmallett]

My point is that Q&W seems on a clear downward trajectory, yet despite maintaining a rapidly falling sales pattern (the worst selling VEI book after 8 issues), is maintaining it numbering.

Isn't it the most recent book to reach 8 issues? I think that's just the general trend with Valiant books. With the exception of Unity, hasn't each successive premiere issue and subsequent issue had fewer copies that the previous launch?

Agreed. Still shedding readers quicker than preceding books by the same point. Is it shedding them more quickly because of its newness or its quality or both?

[leonmallett]

Why do you assume that EW or Shadowman are out of the running? EW is on hiatus and I expect it will return with it's original numbering even. As far as we know, Shadowman is doing it's mini series, then going back to it's regular numbering as well, considering that the writer has a year or more of material to tell. Unless they just keep doing mini series for it for some reason.

I think they're testing the waters for this type of releases. Maybe some of the "not so good in terms of numbers" books will get a pump from a new number one, every year or so. I'd understand this from a business POV, but it would *SQUEE* me off, I'll be honest. Numbering is not that important in the end of the day (Quality in writing and art is), and let's face it it IS/WAS???? a big scary turn-off for many people. But still, a testimony of the quality of an ongoing(as in every month, "with no ending in sight") book is longevity, I guess?

Or...
this End Times arc a comic that is so good and a gamechanger, they feel they might reach the non-VEI reader and make a home-run by putting it into a mini-series and then luring people onto the ongoing. Do I see VEI pulling a Dark Knight Returns?
Pure speculation here, btw.

Things is, the numbers thing does not stack up with Quantum and Woody's recent sales performance yet sustained numbering, does it?

Q&W is not that bad in sales, is it? Mid-tier level, just behind the Big Guns (X-O, Unity, Harbinger, A&A)?
Shadowman has been consistently a low-tier book in terms of sales, for over a year and a half. I understand it's the first title to get a new shot in the arm, via a mini-series/new number one issue.

Leon, I'm confused now. Sorry for my non-native understanding of the english language, mate. You saying that Quantum & Woody should get the mini-series treatment too? Or quite the opposite?

No worries, I don't think I was too clear.

I really don't understand VEI's strategy about ongoings vs minis as they have no been clear (IMHO) about resumption of ongoing status etc. Therefore I do not argue for minis as such.

My point is that Q&W seems on a clear downward trajectory, yet despite maintaining a rapidly falling sales pattern (the worst selling VEI book after 8 issues), is maintaining it numbering. It is in the 'not so good in terms of numbers' category by those estimates yet shows no signs of those kinds of changes to its 'run'.

Thanks for clearing that up, mate. And for your patience.

As for Q&W changes- I think the Delinquents qualifies as a different strategy/change to it's "run"?

Could be right about the Delinquents.

To my mind, VEI need to grab a wider base of readers, and while I am sure new #1's grabs new opportunities, the strategy seems to be creating a miasma of titles, and I wonder if that will in fact put off some potential new readers?

[Phoenix8008]

My point is that Q&W seems on a clear downward trajectory, yet despite maintaining a rapidly falling sales pattern (the worst selling VEI book after 8 issues), is maintaining it numbering.

Isn't it the most recent book to reach 8 issues? I think that's just the general trend with Valiant books. With the exception of Unity, hasn't each successive premiere issue and subsequent issue had fewer copies that the previous launch?

Agreed. Still shedding readers quicker than preceding books by the same point. Is it shedding them more quickly because of its newness or its quality or both?

Maybe a combo of factors. I know the art in the second arc of Q&W was some of the worst that Valiant has published yet (for me at least). That may be part of the reason. Also, as they've said in the recent Comicvine interview: they hear alot that people like to collect the whole universe of titles. But I'm sure some just can't quite afford to do so and I know if there was one VEI title I was going to drop, it would be Q&W. Mainly because I don't have as much connection to that title due to never reading the original series (I was a VH1 only guy). Those are the two factors that would lead me to drop it potentially. It's been okay story wise though, and connecting it to the rest of the Valiant universe via Delinquents is a great idea. I know there's been a few connecting threads mentioned here and there, but it still feels very separate from the rest of the universe.

[jeremycoe]

Who would have thought the answer would be: Ninjak

If we discount Unity.

[Tim]

Really wish it had been X-O. Would have been a nice achievement to have the title not only surpass it's original run, but also be the longest running Valiant title ever in both iterations.

[SuperMage]

Really wish it had been X-O. Would have been a nice achievement to have the title not only surpass it's original run, but also be the longest running Valiant title ever in both iterations.

The upcoming volume 2 probably has a shot of outlasting the original, especially since Valiant is going to get plenty of exposure in 2017/2018.

Harbinger: Renegades will probably be the next title to hit the 50 issue mark. Valiant makes it seem like they're building up Rafer's run to be this epic multi-year storyline. The fact that Solomon isn't going to be main antagonist for Harbinger Wars 2 makes me think that there are huge plans for Harbinger: Renegade going forward.