End Times TPB Gripe

[KXXX]

The Shadowman: End Times TPB is $14.99 for 3 issues. It is more expensive than the individual cover prices and marks the first time that's happened as far as I know. Unity's 2nd arc was 3 issues, but they threw in the XO issue to beef up the TPB. I imagine they could've thrown the 13X issue in, but they didn't, which I assume means that it's lost to the ages as I don't believe it appeared in the previous volume either.

Now I see that the Harby and BS Armor Hunters TPBs will follow the same formula. It's a sweet little bonus when the TPBs are 5 issues, so in reality it does sort of balance out. Sort of.

I'm still buying all floppies, trades and hcs, but I won't lie: paying MORE than cover for the sum total of issues included burns my *SQUEE* hairs, especially when it's an arc as... not good... as End Times.

[kjjohanson]

The Shadowman: End Times TPB is $14.99 for 3 issues. It is more expensive than the individual cover prices and marks the first time that's happened as far as I know. Unity's 2nd arc was 3 issues, but they threw in the XO issue to beef up the TPB. I imagine they could've thrown the 13X issue in, but they didn't, which I assume means that it's lost to the ages as I don't believe it appeared in the previous volume either.

Now I see that the Harby and BS Armor Hunters TPBs will follow the same formula. It's a sweet little bonus when the TPBs are 5 issues, so in reality it does sort of balance out. Sort of.

I'm still buying all floppies, trades and hcs, but I won't lie: paying MORE than cover for the sum total of issues included burns my *SQUEE* hairs, especially when it's an arc as... not good... as End Times.

I think the X-O lead-in to Armor Hunters is in the same boat (although #25 was $1 more).

[doodlebird]

+1

[brucehartshorn]

One major reasons the trades have sold so well for VEI is the fact that they DO cost less than purchasing the individual issue. If that historic trend is changing, it can't be a well thought out strategy of VEI because it isn't hard to do the math. VEI has already made the determination to have Pullbox Plus issues for Rai and DDDM which will have material NOT put into TPBs to help drive monthly issue sales, so they know what they need to do. But this pricing strategy is counter productive to what they're trying to achieve and I hope that they correct this quickly to NOT impact their TPB sales.

[KXXX]

I have to imagine that, from a business perspective, the TPBs cost substantially less in overall production due to the fact that they are comprised of reprinted material. Combining this with the 'Valiant First' initiative, a $9.99 price point would be way more suitable for these 3 issue trades.

Now, don't get me wrong.... I'm fully aware I can purchase these for less than that through Amazon, but I support my LCS because they support Valiant.

Knowing you have a solid fan base to provide a financial foundation is one thing, but between this and the $40 HARD Corps HC I'm beginning to feel like we're being held upside-down to shake the coins out.

[leonmallett]

I have to imagine that, from a business perspective, the TPBs cost substantially less in overall production due to the fact that they are comprised of reprinted material. Combining this with the 'Valiant First' initiative, a $9.99 price point would be way more suitable for these 3 issue trades.

Now, don't get me wrong.... I'm fully aware I can purchase these for less than that through Amazon, but I support my LCS because they support Valiant.

Knowing you have a solid fan base to provide a financial foundation is one thing, but between this and the $40 HARD Corps HC I'm beginning to feel like we're being held upside-down to shake the coins out.

The myriad variant covers was not a clue...?

[ValiantReader]

I have to imagine that, from a business perspective, the TPBs cost substantially less in overall production due to the fact that they are comprised of reprinted material. Combining this with the 'Valiant First' initiative, a $9.99 price point would be way more suitable for these 3 issue trades.

Now, don't get me wrong.... I'm fully aware I can purchase these for less than that through Amazon, but I support my LCS because they support Valiant.

Knowing you have a solid fan base to provide a financial foundation is one thing, but between this and the $40 HARD Corps HC I'm beginning to feel like we're being held upside-down to shake the coins out.

The myriad variant covers was not a clue...?

I was collecting all the trades till the Hardcover collections came out. Now I am just collecting those and the comic issues. I also only get one copy of each issue now, which saves me a lot of money monthly. Some variants i must have but its rare. I wish i could have them all tho.

[KXXX]

I have to imagine that, from a business perspective, the TPBs cost substantially less in overall production due to the fact that they are comprised of reprinted material. Combining this with the 'Valiant First' initiative, a $9.99 price point would be way more suitable for these 3 issue trades.

Now, don't get me wrong.... I'm fully aware I can purchase these for less than that through Amazon, but I support my LCS because they support Valiant.

Knowing you have a solid fan base to provide a financial foundation is one thing, but between this and the $40 HARD Corps HC I'm beginning to feel like we're being held upside-down to shake the coins out.

The myriad variant covers was not a clue...?

I feel like this is a bit different, but I see where you're coming from.

Variant covers overall have probably proven to be a wise decision. Buyers push retailers to order more issues to meet incentive points, which benefits VEI. Retailers can charge more for the covers, which can benefit them if they play their cards right. Collectors re-selling duplicate incentive variants like I did can benefit by offsetting the cost of their personal collections and even put them in the black (I had some good weeks). They also expand the separate markets (like the one here) of buying, selling and grading; while this doesn't affect the company directly, any interest or buzz about the line is a positive thing for them. Literally any time people spend thinking or talking about Valiant is a good thing for them.

In 2012 I set out to collect "two of everything" to build two complete collections, anticipating the sale of one complete collection in the future after Valiant ceased to be, when or if ever that were to happen. The other collection would be for posterity. It didn't work out like that because the line expanded to five books with 1:50 variants my LCS couldn't justify two of, so I began selling second copies off. It became the norm and it was a fun deal until about Unity, with its completely unnecessary amount of covers. With the launch of Rai and its myriad covers, I decided to call it quits on the variants. I'm glad, because the 47-odd FCBD retailer exclusives would've driven me *SQUEE*.

The point I'm driving at here is that I never felt like my pockets were being pulled inside-out by force. I did enjoy the comics more after I stopped sweating the collection aspect.

I have to see the trades as different. When you purchase an incentive variant, the price point is set by the retailer. You accept the price because you understand how it all works. With the books, it's VEI saying "You should pay $15 for 3 $4 issues."

[leonmallett]

I have to imagine that, from a business perspective, the TPBs cost substantially less in overall production due to the fact that they are comprised of reprinted material. Combining this with the 'Valiant First' initiative, a $9.99 price point would be way more suitable for these 3 issue trades.

Now, don't get me wrong.... I'm fully aware I can purchase these for less than that through Amazon, but I support my LCS because they support Valiant.

Knowing you have a solid fan base to provide a financial foundation is one thing, but between this and the $40 HARD Corps HC I'm beginning to feel like we're being held upside-down to shake the coins out.

The myriad variant covers was not a clue...?

I feel like this is a bit different, but I see where you're coming from.

Variant covers overall have probably proven to be a wise decision. Buyers push retailers to order more issues to meet incentive points, which benefits VEI. Retailers can charge more for the covers, which can benefit them if they play their cards right. Collectors re-selling duplicate incentive variants like I did can benefit by offsetting the cost of their personal collections and even put them in the black (I had some good weeks). They also expand the separate markets (like the one here) of buying, selling and grading; while this doesn't affect the company directly, any interest or buzz about the line is a positive thing for them. Literally any time people spend thinking or talking about Valiant is a good thing for them.

In 2012 I set out to collect "two of everything" to build two complete collections, anticipating the sale of one complete collection in the future after Valiant ceased to be, when or if ever that were to happen. The other collection would be for posterity. It didn't work out like that because the line expanded to five books with 1:50 variants my LCS couldn't justify two of, so I began selling second copies off. It became the norm and it was a fun deal until about Unity, with its completely unnecessary amount of covers. With the launch of Rai and its myriad covers, I decided to call it quits on the variants. I'm glad, because the 47-odd FCBD retailer exclusives would've driven me *SQUEE*.

The point I'm driving at here is that I never felt like my pockets were being pulled inside-out by force. I did enjoy the comics more after I stopped sweating the collection aspect.

I have to see the trades as different. When you purchase an incentive variant, the price point is set by the retailer. You accept the price because you understand how it all works. With the books, it's VEI saying "You should pay $15 for 3 $4 issues."

I was only half serious, I will concede.

It has been clever (use of variants), but it is simply a way for VEI (and any publisher making them) to increase their return from a single product.

The enhanced edition stuff just seems a more subtle version of the variant. I wonder how many who have the enhanced versions also bought the standard version BTW?

If the overall strategy works for VEI, then fine, but the 18 (more?) covers for Unity just seemed ridiculous to me. Long term though, what did that really achieve? An artificially inflated sales figure arguably, but longer-term?

It is an expensive hobby. If tpb's are a gateway to draw more readers, then the pricing needs to be attractive. The variants issue is not directly related to the price point of tpb's, but is part of a bigger picture.

VEI appear to be selling to a committed core, and yes I do think they have been shaking out the coins. More power to them, but each move is a risk in that the overall perception *may* be subtly altered increment by increment when individual customers look at the wider whole. That becomes a little more problematic outside the USA, simply due to accessibility. But how VEI appears to treat its non-US fans is another matter of debate...

[KXXX]

One major reasons the trades have sold so well for VEI is the fact that they DO cost less than purchasing the individual issue. If that historic trend is changing, it can't be a well thought out strategy of VEI because it isn't hard to do the math. VEI has already made the determination to have Pullbox Plus issues for Rai and DDDM which will have material NOT put into TPBs to help drive monthly issue sales, so they know what they need to do. But this pricing strategy is counter productive to what they're trying to achieve and I hope that they correct this quickly to NOT impact their TPB sales.

They do, and it's extra-sweet (as previously stated) when the trade has 5 issues. It was even sweeter when the first volumes had a $9.99 price point and Harbinger was 5 issues. $2 comics! Even $14.99 for 4 issues is $1 less, which isn't much but it's still pretty cool it works out less.

[mkb28]

I have to imagine that, from a business perspective, the TPBs cost substantially less in overall production due to the fact that they are comprised of reprinted material. Combining this with the 'Valiant First' initiative, a $9.99 price point would be way more suitable for these 3 issue trades.

Now, don't get me wrong.... I'm fully aware I can purchase these for less than that through Amazon, but I support my LCS because they support Valiant.

Knowing you have a solid fan base to provide a financial foundation is one thing, but between this and the $40 HARD Corps HC I'm beginning to feel like we're being held upside-down to shake the coins out.

The myriad variant covers was not a clue...?

I feel like this is a bit different, but I see where you're coming from.

Variant covers overall have probably proven to be a wise decision. Buyers push retailers to order more issues to meet incentive points, which benefits VEI. Retailers can charge more for the covers, which can benefit them if they play their cards right. Collectors re-selling duplicate incentive variants like I did can benefit by offsetting the cost of their personal collections and even put them in the black (I had some good weeks). They also expand the separate markets (like the one here) of buying, selling and grading; while this doesn't affect the company directly, any interest or buzz about the line is a positive thing for them. Literally any time people spend thinking or talking about Valiant is a good thing for them.

In 2012 I set out to collect "two of everything" to build two complete collections, anticipating the sale of one complete collection in the future after Valiant ceased to be, when or if ever that were to happen. The other collection would be for posterity. It didn't work out like that because the line expanded to five books with 1:50 variants my LCS couldn't justify two of, so I began selling second copies off. It became the norm and it was a fun deal until about Unity, with its completely unnecessary amount of covers. With the launch of Rai and its myriad covers, I decided to call it quits on the variants. I'm glad, because the 47-odd FCBD retailer exclusives would've driven me *SQUEE*.

The point I'm driving at here is that I never felt like my pockets were being pulled inside-out by force. I did enjoy the comics more after I stopped sweating the collection aspect.

I have to see the trades as different. When you purchase an incentive variant, the price point is set by the retailer. You accept the price because you understand how it all works. With the books, it's VEI saying "You should pay $15 for 3 $4 issues."

Well said, KXXX! I paid $9.74 for my copy through DCBS, which was 35% off the cover price ($14.99) and I thought this trade should have a cover price of $9.99. I wonder if all the 3 shot minis coming out will have the same pricing structure?

I have been buying a regular copy of each issue and all the TPB's and I continue to buy all the number 1 variant covers of each on-going monthly title. I decided to not collect the number 1 variants for the mini-series since so many were coming out.

I recently sold my Deluxe HC editions because I am giving serious thought to binding my VEI issues into HC's. For example, with VEI coming out with the #25 Anniversary issues for X-O, Harbinger, Archer and Armstrong, and Bloodshot, this makes a perfect amount of issues for a HC to be bound. You could include the 25 issues, plus any zero issues, and it will cost somewhere between $21.00 to $28.00 to get them bound.

The next question is what to do with all the trades?

Michael
Mkb28

[BugsySig]

When all these three issue minis were announced, I thought this might be a problem. If they are only collecting 3 issues without any bonus, then the trades should be a max of $9.99. Otherwise what is the point of buying a trade?

Shadowman: End Times
AH: Bloodshot
AH: Harbinger
Harbinger: Omegas
Eternal Warrior: Days of Steel

All of those are three issues.

Now, there are also various one-shots and random individual issues coming out that also need a place in trade:

Archer & Armstrong #24 & 25
A&A: The One Percent #1
Bloodshot #24 & 25
Punk Mambo #0
AH: Aftermath

Aftermath will be in the AH trade, but that's the only one we know for sure. It seems Punk Mambo #0 would have fit in well with the End Times trade, but that isn't the case. The three A&A issues could be in a trade together.