VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMMENTS

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Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by greg »

oldjello wrote:I've been wanting to see a MRF movie for a long time, but I'm fine with the other titles getting love. Bloodshot seems to be a franchise that can span across many different demographics to be the first to production.
I, Robot was closer to being Magnus than being Asimov.

Human in the future fights robots who are attempting to control mankind with the help of a special "freewill" robot (might as well have been named 1-A) who gives him enough help and info to take out the "grandmother" robot. He can also smash robots with his bare hands, thanks to a cybernetic arm (rather than his flesh being stronger than steel).

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Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by Joshua »

I remember watching something with Dinesh, maybe that recent CBR interview, where he said the movies were closer than what the investor announcement said, and I didn't know what to think. It is good they already have people onboard.

For a movie that will release in 2017, I wonder how long until we get some casting done. How many Valiant characters would show up on Bloodshot?

These are great times.

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Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by BugsySig »

While a Harbinger TV series would be great, now that a film franchise is set to take place I doubt that will happen.

Archer & Armstrong or Quantum and Woody would make for good TV series, though.
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Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by Sven the Returned »

oldjello wrote:A movie version of teen superhero team Harbinger has previously been in the works at Paramount with Brett Ratner at the helm, but rights reverted to Valiant in 2013.

I read this and was wondering if the films are successful, would Harbinger become a television series? It seems that title would work the best in an episodic format (8-12 episodes/season). If you could get a major player to latch onto it, say a HBO, that could be amazing.

I'll hold onto my concerns about Bloodshot. I'm happy that this is moving forward. It's been 20+ years of me being a fan, and I wish Valiant still had the Magnus rights. I've been wanting to see a MRF movie for a long time, but I'm fine with the other titles getting love. Bloodshot seems to be a franchise that can span across many different demographics to be the first to production.

Well done Valiant.
Bloodshot. Sounds like an R rated action vehicle that caters to men.

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Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by Chiclo »

BugsySig wrote:While a Harbinger TV series would be great, now that a film franchise is set to take place I doubt that will happen.

Archer & Armstrong or Quantum and Woody would make for good TV series, though.
Doctor Mirage. On AMC. :thumb:

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Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by bygranddesign »

After the 2 Harbinger movies ..and Harbinger Wars movie play out ... Imperium would make a great TV show

Actually AMC would be perfect for Imperium - it fits into their anti-hero/sympathetic bad guy angle

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Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by BugsySig »

bygranddesign wrote:After the 2 Harbinger movies ..and Harbinger Wars movie play out ... Imperium would make a great TV show

Actually AMC would be perfect for Imperium - it fits into their anti-hero/sympathetic bad guy angle
AMC isn't known for big budget though. All of their shows are pretty grounded. The exception being make up on TWD. Imperium would require pretty heavy FX. Even more so than just Harbinger.

Dr. Mirage could be pretty cool, though. Hadn't thought of that one. Might make for a good lead in to TWD... :hm:
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Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by bygranddesign »

Well it will be probably 10 years until all the Harbinger movies all play out -- so who knows how the landscape of Television will be by then ...huge budget Television shows might be common place.... All I really know is, its only been 3 issues of Imperium, and I think its already one of the best comics I've ever read - and that much awesomeness should be faithfully transitioned to Television so Dysart's work can get the recognition it deserves.

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Post by BugsySig »

bygranddesign wrote:Well it will be probably 10 years until all the Harbinger movies all play out -- so who knows how the landscape of Television will be by then ...huge budget Television shows might be common place.... All I really know is, its only been 3 issues of Imperium, and I think its already one of the best comics I've ever read - and that much awesomeness should be faithfully transitioned to Television so Dysart's work can get the recognition it deserves.
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Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by Phoenix8008 »

bygranddesign wrote:After the 2 Harbinger movies ..and Harbinger Wars movie play out ... Imperium would make a great TV show

Actually AMC would be perfect for Imperium - it fits into their anti-hero/sympathetic bad guy angle
If they're doing a movie for each trade paperback (which is what it looks like so far), then after Harbinger Wars there is still enough material for a few more Harbinger movies before we get to Imperium territory. Let alone more Harbinger, bringing in some X-O, to introduce Ninjak, then Planet Death, Unity, Archer & Armstrong, Eternal Warrior, GAH! So much potential movie goodness!
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Post by BugsySig »

Phoenix8008 wrote:
bygranddesign wrote:After the 2 Harbinger movies ..and Harbinger Wars movie play out ... Imperium would make a great TV show

Actually AMC would be perfect for Imperium - it fits into their anti-hero/sympathetic bad guy angle
If they're doing a movie for each trade paperback (which is what it looks like so far), then after Harbinger Wars there is still enough material for a few more Harbinger movies before we get to Imperium territory. Let alone more Harbinger, bringing in some X-O, to introduce Ninjak, then Planet Death, Unity, Archer & Armstrong, Eternal Warrior, GAH! So much potential movie goodness!
Hmmm...I actually think we might see the first two arcs of Harbinger rolled into one movie. Pete being recruited, trained, recruiting the renegades and taking the fight to Harada makes sense as one film.

Bloodshot I see as on the run from PRS while attempting to find his identity for the first film.

The sequels would probably be new stories using various elements from others (Pulse, Death of Flamingo, the PRS kids/Gen Zero, Perfect Day, @x, etc). They don't have to follow the exact timeline of the books.

Come to think of it, Perfect Day would be a pretty cool sequel.
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Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by Phoenix8008 »

BugsySig wrote:
Phoenix8008 wrote:
bygranddesign wrote:After the 2 Harbinger movies ..and Harbinger Wars movie play out ... Imperium would make a great TV show

Actually AMC would be perfect for Imperium - it fits into their anti-hero/sympathetic bad guy angle
If they're doing a movie for each trade paperback (which is what it looks like so far), then after Harbinger Wars there is still enough material for a few more Harbinger movies before we get to Imperium territory. Let alone more Harbinger, bringing in some X-O, to introduce Ninjak, then Planet Death, Unity, Archer & Armstrong, Eternal Warrior, GAH! So much potential movie goodness!
Hmmm...I actually think we might see the first two arcs of Harbinger rolled into one movie. Pete being recruited, trained, recruiting the renegades and taking the fight to Harada makes sense as one film.

Bloodshot I see as on the run from PRS while attempting to find his identity for the first film.

The sequels would probably be new stories using various elements from others (Pulse, Death of Flamingo, the PRS kids/Gen Zero, Perfect Day, @x, etc). They don't have to follow the exact timeline of the books.

Come to think of it, Perfect Day would be a pretty cool sequel.
You can't do Perfect Day as the second Harbinger movie before Harbinger Wars. It happens after they're captured at the end of Harbinger Wars. I just reread all the Bloodshot and Harbinger up through Harbinger Wars, and I think each trade works pretty well as it's own story converted into a movie. I hope they stay as close to the source comics as possible, I think it'll be fine. Starting with Bloodshot, you find out that PRS are the bad guys hunting him. In Harbinger, you see PRS and Tull hunting Peter, further cementing their role as villains. You almost need the second Harbinger movie to follow directly after the first to pull together the Renegades, then come out with Bloodshot 2 after that to get the assault on PRS kicking off Harbinger Wars.
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Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by bygranddesign »

I think we need to come to terms with the idea that the Valiant Cinematic Universe is going to be different from the comic universe.

Stories aren't going to be transferred faithfully from comics to movies

And I'm OK with that

I think they have an opportunity to make the stories even better.

Especially when it comes to Harbinger Wars. I really liked the crossover .. But I think there are a lot of things to improve upon - most notably making the scale of the "war" feel BIG like an actual war. I would incorporate some of the Death Of Renegade Ideas (Introduce @X - and maybe even kill off Flamingo (or maybe torque or someone else we are not expecting) in that movie to create greater impact for the movie)

I think it makes sense to take the best ideas of the 25 issue Harbinger run and the 25 issue Bloodshot run ... and fit them into these 5 movies. This is Valiant's big shot - and making a movie out of every arc is not practical - its just not going to happen. But taking the best ideas and creating something new for us fans .. and hopefully something really entertaining for people who are not familiar with these stories ... makes a lot of sense to me.

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Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by BugsySig »

Phoenix8008 wrote:
BugsySig wrote:
Phoenix8008 wrote:
bygranddesign wrote:After the 2 Harbinger movies ..and Harbinger Wars movie play out ... Imperium would make a great TV show

Actually AMC would be perfect for Imperium - it fits into their anti-hero/sympathetic bad guy angle
If they're doing a movie for each trade paperback (which is what it looks like so far), then after Harbinger Wars there is still enough material for a few more Harbinger movies before we get to Imperium territory. Let alone more Harbinger, bringing in some X-O, to introduce Ninjak, then Planet Death, Unity, Archer & Armstrong, Eternal Warrior, GAH! So much potential movie goodness!
Hmmm...I actually think we might see the first two arcs of Harbinger rolled into one movie. Pete being recruited, trained, recruiting the renegades and taking the fight to Harada makes sense as one film.

Bloodshot I see as on the run from PRS while attempting to find his identity for the first film.

The sequels would probably be new stories using various elements from others (Pulse, Death of Flamingo, the PRS kids/Gen Zero, Perfect Day, @x, etc). They don't have to follow the exact timeline of the books.

Come to think of it, Perfect Day would be a pretty cool sequel.
You can't do Perfect Day as the second Harbinger movie before Harbinger Wars. It happens after they're captured at the end of Harbinger Wars. I just reread all the Bloodshot and Harbinger up through Harbinger Wars, and I think each trade works pretty well as it's own story converted into a movie. I hope they stay as close to the source comics as possible, I think it'll be fine. Starting with Bloodshot, you find out that PRS are the bad guys hunting him. In Harbinger, you see PRS and Tull hunting Peter, further cementing their role as villains. You almost need the second Harbinger movie to follow directly after the first to pull together the Renegades, then come out with Bloodshot 2 after that to get the assault on PRS kicking off Harbinger Wars.
Not sure they CANT do anything. All Perfect Day requires is the team being captured by Harada. That could happen at any time and is not contingent on Harbinger Wars. In fact, at the end of that arc, they free the Gen Zero kids (and yes Animalia played a large role, but I'm talking as a concept not as a specific adaptation) which could actually lead into Harby Wars in a way. But, he'll, I'm not writing the scripts.

And I seriously doubt we wouldn't see the formation of the Renegades in the first movie. I certainly wouldn't hate it if we just got the first Dysart arc, but I think we'll see Pete recruit the others.
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Post by bygranddesign »

i'm hoping there is some fun coordination between the movies

One of the really cool running themes within Valiant is the idea of seeing conflict from different perspectives - Villains are the heroes in their own stories.

So it would be cool to see a Bloodshot - Harbinger conflict in Bloodshot .. and have the same conflict in Harbinger given from Harada's perspective.

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Post by Phoenix8008 »

bygranddesign wrote:I think we need to come to terms with the idea that the Valiant Cinematic Universe is going to be different from the comic universe.

Stories aren't going to be transferred faithfully from comics to movies

And I'm OK with that

I think they have an opportunity to make the stories even better.

Especially when it comes to Harbinger Wars. I really liked the crossover .. But I think there are a lot of things to improve upon - most notably making the scale of the "war" feel BIG like an actual war. I would incorporate some of the Death Of Renegade Ideas (Introduce @X - and maybe even kill off Flamingo (or maybe torque or someone else we are not expecting) in that movie to create greater impact for the movie)

I think it makes sense to take the best ideas of the 25 issue Harbinger run and the 25 issue Bloodshot run ... and fit them into these 5 movies. This is Valiant's big shot - and making a movie out of every arc is not practical - its just not going to happen. But taking the best ideas and creating something new for us fans .. and hopefully something really entertaining for people who are not familiar with these stories ... makes a lot of sense to me.
I understand and accept that the won't be able to exactly match up the cinematic universe to the comics universe, and I accept that as well, but I'll disagree with the rest. I think sticking as close to what made the comics great would be better than trying to shove the whole 25 issue series into 2 movies and then following it up with Harbinger Wars at the end. That makes no sense to me. I don't see how cramming it all together and throwing in @x and killing Flamingo before doing the Harbinger Wars crossover could make things better. The death of Flamingo would have more impact further down the line after we get more attached to her. I think Harbinger Wars will make a big enough impact if they actually follow the comics and let Harada win in the end. How awesomely different would that be? We'll have to agree to disagree on what would make the movies better I guess.
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Post by jmatt »

bygranddesign wrote:I think we need to come to terms with the idea that the Valiant Cinematic Universe is going to be different from the comic universe.

Stories aren't going to be transferred faithfully from comics to movies

And I'm OK with that
Agree completely. It's possible the stories will be dramatically different.

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Post by iggy101us »

Just got back from vacation. Did I miss anything? :poke:

Congrats, great news! :clap:

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Post by Phoenix8008 »

jmatt wrote:
bygranddesign wrote:I think we need to come to terms with the idea that the Valiant Cinematic Universe is going to be different from the comic universe.

Stories aren't going to be transferred faithfully from comics to movies

And I'm OK with that
Agree completely. It's possible the stories will be dramatically different.
It's possible that they COULD be dramatically different. And I trust Dino to do what is best, but some seem intent on saying that making them dramatically different would be an improvement. I don't understand that. Dino will change what has to change in order to make the story fit as best as it can into movie form, but if they're still all about telling the best story possible, why deviate more than you need to from the source material which was already the best story you could come up with for the original format??

I keep coming back to the announcement itself: Bloodshot and Harbinger will each get 2 movies before the Harbinger Wars crossover film. I think it would be fine ending the first Harbinger film with Peter fighting and escaping Harada's grasp with Liverwire and Faith's help. Maybe drop in the scene of Faith getting Kris to meet with Pete again and her deciding to use Peter to take down Harada. Set up the plot for the next one where they gather more of the team and tell more of their origins. If they combine the first two story arcs of Harbinger into the first film, then what else do you do for the second film before Harbinger Wars? What story do you tell? Sure, the COULD do Perfect Day first, but then what do you do after Harbinger Wars? Maybe if they were going to do one Bloodshot movie, then one Harbinger movie including the first two story arcs, then the second Bloodshot movie ending with him raiding the Nursery and setting off Harbinger Wars... then I could see combining both story arcs into one movie. But if they're committed to doing 2 movies, then I can only think they're mainly following the trades leading into Harbinger Wars.

Some people seem to think this is VEI's one and only shot to get all possible material out and that there's no possibility of any other movies after these 5. Some are the same people that perpetually doubted VEI would keep printing comics month to month, or ever actually get ANY movie made, let alone 5 or more. I totally believe that this is just the springboard, and that VEI should use the great stories they've created and be faithful to them as much as possible in the process of turning them into films. I guess we've got a few years to wait and see what they decide to do though and we'll find out what Dino thought was best later on. If you've got to make yourself believe the worst possible outcome so that you can only be pleasantly surprised if you're wrong, then I'm sorry for you. I'll keep hoping for the best though and be willing to be a little disappointed if it's not perfect. I can't be that unhappy though, I'm gonna have Valiant movies starting in a couple years!
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Post by hunter_peterson »

It just occurred to me that we can add HARDCorps to the list of Valiant properties heading to film. :clap:

I'd love to see Bloodshot and HARDCorps adapted into a movie! It'd be better as one big team-up anyway.

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Post by nycjadie »

I feel like Harbinger Wars will have to change to make a compelling movie in typical superhero fashion. More love interest and humor, to go along with the action.

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Post by hunter_peterson »

nycjadie wrote:I feel like Harbinger Wars will have to change to make a compelling movie in typical superhero fashion. More love interest and humor, to go along with the action.
I think Valiant would be better off trying not to be typical. There will be several major classic superhero franchises around by then, so having a deconstructionist universe would be a draw. I think Valiant is excellently positioned to take advantage of people's expectations of superhero movies- the entire company is about viewing the tropes of the genre differently, and when the movies debut here will be enough super movies for people's expectations to be subverted.

Think of it this way... Watchmen would probably have done better if it came out when the average person was as well acquainted with superhero tropes as they are now. They can understand he deviation, so it should be more interesting because of that.

Also, Valiant could distance itself from the pack by having a higher level of violence and adult content. It was never a company that pretended comicbooks were just for kids, after all.

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Post by blujay »

hunter_peterson wrote:Think of it this way... Watchmen would probably have done better if it came out when the average person was as well acquainted with superhero tropes as they are now.
Well that, and if it wasn't directed by :atomic: Zack Snyder :atomic: *shutters*

Anyway, this is great news! It's pretty clear that Valiant at least has more of a plan than DC :lol: John Wick was really awesome (it definitely exceeded my expectations) so I only hope that the director (whatshisname) does Bloodshot justice. A little iffy on the writers given their previous work, but if Dinesh is overseeing the production (as we all assume he is) I'll just have to trust his judgement.

And, speaking of John Wick, I think I'll just let my bold prediction speak for itself...

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Valiant fan since: 1994
Favorite character: GIN-GR
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Location: London
Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by jxm640 »

nycjadie wrote:I feel like Harbinger Wars will have to change to make a compelling movie in typical superhero fashion. More love interest and humor, to go along with the action.
I don't know. I think turning it into a typical Hollywood movie with a love interest and humour will take away some of the Valiantness of it. Valiant has done a good job with being atypical with regards to its universe (everything returning to the status quo). I hope that this happens with their movies.

I also want the Valiant Cinematic Universe to be dramatically different from the comics as otherwise, we could just read the comics (Which we already have).
This is what happens when you try to work...

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bygranddesign
it sounds like "chuffed" goes both ways
it sounds like "chuffed" goes both ways
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Valiant fan since: 1992
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Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Re: VALIANT MOVIES ARE REAL...DETAILS INSIDE..VEI NEEDS COMM

Post by bygranddesign »

Phoenix8008 wrote:
jmatt wrote:
bygranddesign wrote:I think we need to come to terms with the idea that the Valiant Cinematic Universe is going to be different from the comic universe.

Stories aren't going to be transferred faithfully from comics to movies

And I'm OK with that
Agree completely. It's possible the stories will be dramatically different.
It's possible that they COULD be dramatically different. And I trust Dino to do what is best, but some seem intent on saying that making them dramatically different would be an improvement. I don't understand that. Dino will change what has to change in order to make the story fit as best as it can into movie form, but if they're still all about telling the best story possible, why deviate more than you need to from the source material which was already the best story you could come up with for the original format??

I keep coming back to the announcement itself: Bloodshot and Harbinger will each get 2 movies before the Harbinger Wars crossover film. I think it would be fine ending the first Harbinger film with Peter fighting and escaping Harada's grasp with Liverwire and Faith's help. Maybe drop in the scene of Faith getting Kris to meet with Pete again and her deciding to use Peter to take down Harada. Set up the plot for the next one where they gather more of the team and tell more of their origins. If they combine the first two story arcs of Harbinger into the first film, then what else do you do for the second film before Harbinger Wars? What story do you tell? Sure, the COULD do Perfect Day first, but then what do you do after Harbinger Wars? Maybe if they were going to do one Bloodshot movie, then one Harbinger movie including the first two story arcs, then the second Bloodshot movie ending with him raiding the Nursery and setting off Harbinger Wars... then I could see combining both story arcs into one movie. But if they're committed to doing 2 movies, then I can only think they're mainly following the trades leading into Harbinger Wars.

Some people seem to think this is VEI's one and only shot to get all possible material out and that there's no possibility of any other movies after these 5. Some are the same people that perpetually doubted VEI would keep printing comics month to month, or ever actually get ANY movie made, let alone 5 or more. I totally believe that this is just the springboard, and that VEI should use the great stories they've created and be faithful to them as much as possible in the process of turning them into films. I guess we've got a few years to wait and see what they decide to do though and we'll find out what Dino thought was best later on. If you've got to make yourself believe the worst possible outcome so that you can only be pleasantly surprised if you're wrong, then I'm sorry for you. I'll keep hoping for the best though and be willing to be a little disappointed if it's not perfect. I can't be that unhappy though, I'm gonna have Valiant movies starting in a couple years!
I don't think i'm completely disagreeing with you -- But movies are their own animal - The best possible movie plot structure might not coincide with the comic story arc.

You don't think Dysart would do things differently if he was writing the screenplays? His comic stories aren't so PURE to his vision anyway - He didn't even WANT to kill a renegade. So the stories you are reading from Dysart to FVL to Venditti to the rest are compromised all the time ... by editorial and marketing.. so you can't really expect the movies to perfectly reflect the comic stories - these stories will need to be "compromised" but hopefully for the greater good of making a movie that is as good as possible.

I'm more interested in the idea that the Harbinger movies will be in the SPIRIT of Dysart's run ... that it will tackle the same themes in regards to power and this great clash of ideologies from two Omega Psiots. Also it should touch on our messed up drug culture ... and the hopelessness of youth in the shadow of the big corporations. It should not be black and white -- You should hate Peter Stancheck at times while also feeling sympathy for him. You should LIKE Toyo Harada at times but also want him to be STOPPED. These conflicting emotions are important ... I think a successful first Harbinger movie should have people debating - Is Peter the good guy or the Villain? Are you willing to trust Harada and his utopian vision? Is Peter the great destroyer ..and should he be stopped?

I think the first movie should definitely borrow heavily from Harbinger #0 and the first arc.

The main things I WANT to see in the first Harbinger movie ..

-- Teenager Peter on drugs and out of control - Brainwashes his boyhood crush Kris -- Don't shy away from that controversy!
-- Show the origin of Harada - show his rise to power - show the good he is able to accomplish with his power ..and show the bad he needs to do in order to maintain his power and follow his Utopian vision
-- Bleeding Monk in the background ... mysterious ... advising Harada about Peter ... and give Harada glimpses into the future. Peter as the Destroyer ... etc...
-- Peter joins the foundation after he gets help from Harada vs. Project Rising Spirit... and Harada unlocks Peter's potential ... wants to help him / prevent him from being the Destroyer.
-- The death of Joe - this will enrage Peter and is the turning point for him - and sets him on the course to making it his life mission to take down Harada.

Things I'd like to see added / changed from the comic story arc

-- Bloodshot guest appearance ... facing off against Harada and the foundation
-- Some easter eggs/planted seeds/foreshadowing of Generation Zero ..and the eventual Harbinger Wars
-- Give greater importance and development to the relationship between Peter, Livewire, Stronghold when they are all training at the foundation. It will be make the decision that LIVEWIRE has to make to let Peter go -- have greater weight.
-- Here is a biggie change that I sort of debate in my head still -- in both the Shooter and Dysart versions -- Harada straight up murders Joe Irons. But to give it some more gray shading, instead of straight up murdering joe, Harada just doesn't do what he promises in helping Joe ... and allows Joe to die of a drug overdose even though he could have stopped it. Its still horrible thing to do obviously ... but it makes the plot point less black and white, imo.


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