Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

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aj583
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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by aj583 »

Yes, I had it pressed and graded. Here is a photo. Really pleased with it.Image


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Juki
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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by Juki »

Very Nice! Beautiful book aj583. Thanks for posting. :thumb:

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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by aj583 »

Thanks Juki. That blue is pretty dark, just hope it is not a counterfeit. :-)


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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by Juki »

Well, I met Jim Shooter for the first time today at a booth at FanExpo Comicon in New Orleans. I didn’t know what to expect…but, was pleasantly surprised. I got 2 Harbinger #1s, a Solar #10, Zelda #1 $1.50 (second printing), and a Captain N the Game Master #1 signed (witnessed) and sent to CGC for signature series grading. Mr. Shooter was very nice.

He was very talkative, and, when he saw I was a Valiant fan had a binder with valiant comics and pictures of the old Valiant days. He flipped through it and showed me a picture of a sketch that he said represented what he drew as an initial sketch of the Harbinger #1 cover. Y’all may have heard this story before…. But, I had not. He said that he had a certain vision for the cover of Harbinger #1 and showed me a picture in his binder of his drawing. He said he actually drew the Mustang by tracing it out over a picture of a Mustang. Then he drew 4 of the five the characters essentially in the same positions as they are on the finished cover. However, there was nobody in the drivers seat driving the car. He said at first Pete was supposed to be driving using telekinesis. That idea was scratched. He told me that he is not an artist, and that his drawing was not good enough, and that David Lapham took over and drew in the driver (I believe that is Kris) and “touched up” and redrew the faces of all the characters on the cover sheet over the faces of what he had done (that Shooter already sketched). He then said Layton drew in some of the little things around the car (he implied the initial part of the explosion drawing “little squiggle lines” and possibly some pieces of glass), and JJ Jackson really made the explosion creating the outer rings with the billowing effect (and I am assuming coloration).

The picture he showed me (of what his initial drawing would have been before Lapham, Layton, and JJ took over) was similar to the cover as we know it. Judging from that picture Shooter completely drew (he said he traced it from a picture) the Mustang. The car looked completely drawn (like no other artist drew any portion of the car). Flamingo had a totally different outfit on (which he said was changed when drawn over by Lapham), and as I said before…. nobody was driving.

So, Jim Shooter really had a lot more to do with the cover art for Harbinger #1 than I ever would have thought. He said that Lapham redrew the characters over his drawing ( and made their faces match what was in the comic book). So, Lapham did not start over on another sheet of paper from Shooter’s sketch idea. Shooter essentially drew the layout for the cover, and then the other creators took that same art paper and turned that drawing into what became the cover art for Harby #1.

Shooter praised Lapham saying he is a great artist. As I said before, he said that he is not much of an artist and that “his sketch was not good enough.” Shooter did not try and take credit for drawing this cover. But, it was a surprise to learn that he traced the car, and drew 4 of the characters roughly in their proper layout, and that he started the cover art which Lapham, Shooter (to a much lesser extent), and JJ, took over, worked on, and finalized turning it into the Harbinger #1 cover that we all know.

When I pulled out my Solar #10 he also told me the story about the struggle with BWS over what would be the cover art for Solar #10. It seemed a little different that what I had read.

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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by Juki »

Is it common knowledge that Shooter traced the Mustang from a picture to jump start the cover for Harbinger #1? When he was casually telling me this story I found that interesting.
Last edited by Juki on Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:40:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by Ryan »

Juki wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:37:42 pm Well, I met Jim Shooter for the first time today at a booth at FanExpo Comicon in New Orleans. I didn’t know what to expect…but, was pleasantly surprised. I got 2 Harbinger #1s, a Solar #10, Zelda #1 $1.50 (second printing), and a Captain N the Game Master #1 signed (witnessed) and sent to CGC for signature series grading. Mr. Shooter was very nice.

He was very talkative, and, when he saw I was a Valiant fan had a binder with valiant comics and pictures of the old Valiant days. He flipped through it and showed me a picture of a sketch that he said represented what he drew as an initial sketch of the Harbinger #1 cover. Y’all may have heard this story before…. But, I had not. He said that he had a certain vision for the cover of Harbinger #1 and showed me a picture in his binder of his drawing. He said he actually drew the Mustang by tracing over a picture of a Mustang. Then he drew 4 of the five the characters essentially in the same positions as they are on the finished cover. However, there was nobody in the drivers seat driving the car. He said at first Pete was supposed to be driving using telekinesis. That idea was scratched. He told me that he is not an artist, and that his drawing was not good enough, and that David Lapham took over and drew in the driver (I believe that is Kris) and “touched up” and redrew the faces of all the characters on the cover sheet over the faces of what he had done (that Shooter already sketched). He then said Layton drew in some of the little things around the car (he implied the initial part of the explosion drawing “little squiggle lines” and possibly some pieces of glass), and JJ Jackson really made the explosion creating the outer rings with the billowing effect (and I am assuming coloration).

The picture he showed me (of what his initial drawing would have been before Lapham, Layton, and JJ took over) was similar to the cover as we know it. Judging from that picture Shooter completely drew (he said he traced it from a picture) the Mustang. The car looked completely drawn (like no other artist drew any portion of the car). Flamingo had a totally different outfit on (which he said was changed when drawn over by Lapham), and as I said before…. nobody was driving.

So, Jim Shooter really had a lot more to do with the cover art for Harbinger #1 than I ever would have thought. He said that Lapham redrew the characters over his drawing ( and made their faces match what was in the comic book). So, Lapham did not start over on another sheet of paper from Shooter’s sketch idea. Shooter essentially drew the layout for the cover, and then the other creators took that same art paper and turned that drawing into what became the cover art for Harby #1.

Shooter praised Lapham saying he is a great artist. As I said before, he said that he is not much of an artist and that “his sketch was not good enough.” Shooter did not try and take credit for drawing this cover. But, it was a surprise to learn that he traced the car, and drew 4 of the characters roughly in their proper layout, and that he started the cover art which Lapham, Shooter (to a much lesser extent), and JJ, took over, worked on, and finalized turning it into the Harbinger #1 cover that we all know.

When I pulled out my Solar #10 he also told me the story about the struggle with BWS over what would be the cover art for Solar #10. It seemed a little different that what I had read.
Very cool story. I'm assuming this is the Harbinger 1 cover you saw?

Image

from this ad:
Image


I love hearing stories and seeing stuff from that era when they were developing the concepts that would become VALIANT. What a magical time.

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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by Juki »

Yeah, that is it. The picture he showed me was small, almost black and white…. but, that is it. Does, what he said seem accurate? Was that picture used to promote the coming of the Harbinger series?
Last edited by Juki on Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:07:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ryan
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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by Ryan »

Juki wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:44:11 am Yeah, that is it. The picture he showed me was small, almost black and white. Does, what he said seem accurate? Was that picture used to promote the coming of the Harbinger series?
Yes I think so. Jim penciled some of the early concept pieces that became the earliest ads. There's a Magnus one he definitely drew that has Magnus in a slightly redesigned costume, beard stubble and Elzy in a 'Conan babe' pose. I can't seem to find it online but I have it on my computer. It shows they were still developing their ideas on how they wanted do these characters.

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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

oh, wow, interesting!!!

then the real question is who really envisioned Kris..... and Pete (supposedly) being gay?!?

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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by Ryan »

Sunlight on Snow wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 3:26:12 pm oh, wow, interesting!!!

then the real question is who really envisioned Kris..... and Pete (supposedly) being gay?!?
Hmm... I think Kris was in the movie script Jim wrote years before VALIANT. Can't remember for sure, it's on his website.

Some of the images from that ad are from this early Harbinger concept page from Sonicdan's comicartfan's page:

Image


This shows that Kris was already a character early on, cat-fighting with Flamingo. Not sure why Shooter didn't put her on the cover.

Very cool to see Torque smashing an android biker Magnus-style. This is penciled by Lapham and to my eye looks like Stan Drake inks. It's a cool look but I think they made right choice going with the less cartoony John Dixon for Lapham's pencils on the early Harbs.

P.S. I just noticed on the ad version the biker android was changed into a normal biker getting his head turned into red mist. Crazy how much editing early VALIANT did on already finished art.

P.S.S. The more I look at it looks like the ad version of these panels are completely re-drawn, or at least traced off and re-inked. Looks like Layton re-inked them to my eye, and changed the characters to look more like the Harbinger 1 versions.

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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

Ryan wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:48:54 pm Hmm... I think Kris was in the movie script Jim wrote years before VALIANT. Can't remember for sure, it's on his website.
The download that's labeled "The Harbinger Treatment"......

Interesting again.... as I didn't know he had written it even "years" before Valiant.

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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by Ryan »

Sunlight on Snow wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:05:38 am
Ryan wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:48:54 pm Hmm... I think Kris was in the movie script Jim wrote years before VALIANT. Can't remember for sure, it's on his website.
The download that's labeled "The Harbinger Treatment"......

Interesting again.... as I didn't know he had written it even "years" before Valiant.
It's a good read, some differences for sure but a lot that stayed the same too. Much better than the Harbinger 0 that was published post-Unity.

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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by Ryan »

Just to follow up, read the treatment again last night and there is a Kris character named Elaine. Harada is named Kuramoto. Except for how it ends and a few tweaks, it tracks very well with where we pick the story up with Pete and Kris in Harbinger 1.

Not sure why this discussion is taking place in in a BWS signature thread, but here we are.

Thanks for sharing your story Juki, that would be a blast to dig through Jim's files and memories of early VALIANT.

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Re: Barry Windsor-Smith signature on X-O Manowar # 1

Post by Juki »

I got 2 of those 5 books back from CGC that were signature signed by Shooter. The Solar #10 came back a lowly CGC 9.4 :? ,but the Captain N the Game Master #1 came back CGC 9.8. The remaining 3 comics are taking longer because they are getting pressed.


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