Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

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Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by Summydad1 »

What is the difference between the bluebird and blackbird edition of the original VH1 trade for Harbinger? I found a bluebird for $5 at a local store tucked away and remember it was different.
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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by mkb28 »

Summydad1 wrote:What is the difference between the bluebird and blackbird edition of the original VH1 trade for Harbinger? I found a bluebird for $5 at a local store tucked away and remember it was different.
If you take a look at the Price Guide, you can see the bluebird edition is the Variant Cover and is worth around $15.00 versus $5.00 for the blackbird version. Nice pick-up and a must have for a completist collection. :thumb:

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by Chiclo »

It is just a variant cover. It may not even be the rarest of the three - there is a second printing.

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by Summydad1 »

Thanks guys. It is still in the original bag. He also had a Rai TPB with the Rai companion book sealed for $5. Figured I hadn't to have both.
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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by valiantdude »

Harbinger w blue bird was a 1:25 variant

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by slack »

I thought the blue bird was the second print. Which was a smaller print run.

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by mkb28 »

slack wrote:I thought the blue bird was the second print. Which was a smaller print run.
No, the second Printing is the blackbird cover and you have to look inside to find that it is a second printing, if I recall correctly. :hm:

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by Chiclo »

mkb28 wrote:
slack wrote:I thought the blue bird was the second print. Which was a smaller print run.
No, the second Printing is the blackbird cover and you have to look inside to find that it is a second printing, if I recall correctly. :hm:
The second printing was not polybagged by the publisher, so there is no need to open a comic that has been in its bag for over 25 years to check, should one be curious to check.

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by ckb »

Chiclo wrote:
mkb28 wrote:
slack wrote:I thought the blue bird was the second print. Which was a smaller print run.
No, the second Printing is the blackbird cover and you have to look inside to find that it is a second printing, if I recall correctly. :hm:
The second printing was not polybagged by the publisher, so there is no need to open a comic that has been in its bag for over 25 years to check, should one be curious to check.
Man, Chiclo, I'm not sure that is true! I am almost sure the seconds prints I ordered from Diamond were polybagged. I remember removing them and putting them in mylar. They came with the blue #0, as well. Do we have a reason to believe otherwise?

I've told the story before...I submitted the one second print I saved to CGC at the same time as a first print. I figured CGC would note the difference and they didn't, and now I don't know which is which. Or something like that. But I definitely remember I had the second print saved away in mylar with the polybag and 0 blue on the backside of the bag/board. But I definitely remember a lot of things that never happened, so who knows.
Last edited by ckb on Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:54:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by Chiclo »

ckb wrote:
Chiclo wrote:
mkb28 wrote:
slack wrote:I thought the blue bird was the second print. Which was a smaller print run.
No, the second Printing is the blackbird cover and you have to look inside to find that it is a second printing, if I recall correctly. :hm:
The second printing was not polybagged by the publisher, so there is no need to open a comic that has been in its bag for over 25 years to check, should one be curious to check.
Man, Chiclo, I'm not sure that is true! I am almost sure the seconds prints I ordered from Diamond were polybagged. I remember removing them and putting them in mylar. They came with the blue #0, as well. Do we have a reason to believe otherwise?

I've told the story before the I submitted the one second print I saved to CGC at the same time as a first print. I figured CGC would note the difference and they didn't, and now I don't know which is which. Or something like that. But I definitely remember I had the second print saved away in mylar with the polybag and 0 blue on the backside of the bag/board. But I definitely remember a lot of things that never happened, so who knows.
I might be wrong. In 1993, I was all Marvel all the time. But I read it on this website at some point in the last 10 years and the description of the 2nd print in the price guide says it was not polybagged - http://www.valiantpriceguide.com/issue/show/htpb-2nd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by greg »

Chiclo wrote:... I read it on this website at some point in the last 10 years and the description of the 2nd print in the price guide says it was not polybagged - http://www.valiantpriceguide.com/issue/show/htpb-2nd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I heard that guy who runs the website will update the reference pages when he has more information. :wink:

But the real question would be... if the Harbinger trades say "Second Print" inside the front cover and they are also bagged with Harbinger #0 Blue, then it's pretty clear that Valiant didn't expect to sell out of the first print of trades.

So, if Valiant sold out of the first print of trades, and had to print more... then did they also sell out of the first print of Harbinger #0 Blue sky... and is there any difference at all for the Harbinger #0 Blue if it came with the 2nd print of the trade? :hm:

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by valiantdude »

just to clear things up.... blue bird was a 1:25 variant, 2nd print was not polybagged at all, never was... I had a friend then that bought 100 copies of the 2nd print thinking he ordered the 1st print..they were not polybagged, and had '2nd print' printed inside the cover..
also both XO and rai tpbs had blue 1:25 variants

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by Chiclo »

valiantdude wrote:just to clear things up.... blue bird was a 1:25 variant, 2nd print was not polybagged at all, never was... I had a friend then that bought 100 copies of the 2nd print thinking he ordered the 1st print..they were not polybagged, and had '2nd print' printed inside the cover..
also both XO and rai tpbs had blue 1:25 variants
Do you have a source on the blue TPBs being a 1:25 variant?

I don't think I have ever heard about there being a ratio between the regular covers and the variants. Forgive my skepticism but reading the ratio the way you have presented it here, it feels like we are describing a more modern book. Maybe I am just not used to seeing 90s books described that way and that is why it feels out of place to be talking about variant ratios for a pre-Unity book.

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by valiantdude »

No worries! :) In the 90s my friend...there were many many incentive variants... they just never called them 1:25 back then.. You just said, when you order 25 copies you get one (gold,silver,platinum,embossed, blue, white, on and on..)
So essentially, I guess you could say I was in the trenches, trying to hustle comics as a teenager..
I remember beyond distinctly,because I worked with shops in Florida and was in on ordering, etc...
I'm surprised Greg hasn't chimed in here,i thought it was pretty common knowledge..
If you need hard proof,I guess check the old Wizards from that era,or the previews, maybe even those Wizard price guides in the back of the book..
I'm sure the Wizards have the info.
But again,I thought the blue tpb 1:25 was common knowledge..
110% the blue tpbs are 1:25, after the rai tpb though,that was it for the tpb incentive variants..

also, technically, this is a post-unity book, with pre-unity content, even the content of Harbinger #0 was "post-unity", and created after Jim had departed..

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by greg »

I agree that I don't think anyone used the ratio terms like 1:25 until much later.

It was my understanding that there extra trades for Harbinger, Rai, and X-O Manowar, and so Diamond Distribution added the blue to make them "more exciting" as overstock in their Star System for reorders.

I assume that means Diamond anticipated the need to keep the trades in stock and ordered the blue versions specifically to offer later through Star. I guess it's possible they offered both bagged versions through Star and charged extra for the blue. They also sold the unbagged 2nd prints, possibly when both the bagged versions (black, blue) sold out.

It seems like the demand was definitely highest for Harbinger, since they were able to sell unbagged 2nd print trades with no extra comics for the same price.

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by valiantdude »

Alright someone out there that has stacks of old Wizards from 1992 to 1994 should do some investigative digging, I pretty much guarantee that the 1:25 ratio information is locked up somewhere in one of those Wizards, I know they talked about it at the time, and like I said it may be in one of those price guides..

I've never heard of the Dimond Distributors packaging it with a bluebird to entice for reorders, the bluebird books were available, at the exact same time the trade paperback was released.

And they were being priced Higher by retailers at the time, 25 was the lowest I saw when they came out, and $50 was the highest

That is the same reason there are blue rai trade paperbacks, and blue XO trade paperbacks, and in both of those situations you had to order 25 copies of the trade paperback to receive one blue trade paperback,...I'm sure you are all fully aware Valiant was doing 1 to 25 or 1 to 50 ratios for gold and silver books... and they were turning out to be a big hit for retailers, and the aftermarket,...when the trade paperbacks came out, especially the harbinger one, Valiant frenzy was high. The blue books were made to capitalize on the incentive comic demand.

a new vh1 mystery to solve! :)


Do you guys think they that makes them more valuable than you thought, if they are 1 in 25 incentive variants?

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by drmirage »

I know the BLUE TBP are more valuable because they are more rare.

I maybe mistaken, but never thought about the blue one's being a second print.

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by greg »

valiantdude wrote:I've never heard of the Diamond Distributors packaging it with a bluebird to entice for reorders, the bluebird books were available, at the exact same time the trade paperback was released.
The blue bird version is the Diamond version from the "Star" backissue system.
Here's what remains of the Diamond listing for the book in the database:
Image

Notice, it doesn't even mention Valiant. It was Diamond exclusive. It also says 1996, which seems to imply that it was reorders, not initial orders, when the blue bird was being ordered.

There might be about 4% blue compared to 96% black, but there was no requirement to order 25 black in order to get 1 blue. It's a bit of a communication problem in the comic industry right now that things are being described the same way... 1:25 could mean "order 25 to get one" or 1:25 could mean "there is about 1 of this for every 25 copies of that". In some cases, 1:25 means "dealers must order 25 of this in order to qualify for 1 of that, but the publisher printed thousands of extras and they can do whatever they want with them, including sell them as overstock through the distributor at $0.75 each in a few months" (which has happened with some Marvel books).

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by valiantdude »

Okay wait a second, so are there the same solicitation information/offerings for the Rai and XO blue trade paperbacks then?, also that listing seems very confusing, 1996? That is way after those tpb books were released, it is possible they had some lying around for reorder that late but, they were never offered individually in 1992 or 3...,only as incentive.. I can pretty much guarantee that info is in the Wizard magazines of old somewhere. If that perspective were accurate, there would be solicitations for the XO blue and the other trade paperback that was blue right?.. seems to me that they may have had some lying around still in stock, and sold them three years after the fact, but like I said they were never initially available for sale, and also they were around at the same time and I know for sure that they are one for 25 variant covers.. we were all pretty rabid Valiant collectors back then, hence all the old information still stored in my brain :hm:

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by geocarr »

I think Greg and Valiantdude may be both right. I think I remember some bluebirds being sent to some retailers as incentives around the same time as the first polybagged Harbinger TPB's were being sold. I also think Diamond may have had some extra cases of Bluebirds lying around in warehouse(s)....because I saw them for sale maybe about 10 years ago on Ebay. It was a seller who had over 100 Bluebirds I believe and he wasn't or at least didn't seem like a Valiant collector. He seemed more like someone who got their hands on warehouse overstock with a lot of dust on it. I think I bought a couple of copies for about $6-$8 each. I can't prove anything but my guess is you're both somewhat right.
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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by valiantdude »

Here is another logistical aspect that I just realized, the harbinger trade paperbacks were notorious at the time because they were one of the early polybagged books, that came with an extra comic, when they polybagged the books, the seem of the polybag rode over the middle of harbinger #0...this created some reaction with comic and pulled ink off the cover where the seem met the comic...people(speculators) were *SQUEE* at the time..
If this was a diamond exclusive in printed potentially years after the fact, it would have a different polybag, and they had updated the poly bag for future trade paperbacks such as XO Shadow Man and rai..
I really think there was some Overstock that may have been sold in the 90s or even later that somehow was not distributed correctly or was lost and then found :?
But for sure they were giving a blue copy for every 25 copies of the harbinger trade paperback that you bought

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by greg »

valiantdude wrote:Okay wait a second, so are there the same solicitation information/offerings for the Rai and XO blue trade paperbacks then?, also that listing seems very confusing, 1996? That is way after those tpb books were released, it is possible they had some lying around for reorder that late but, they were never offered individually in 1992 or 3...,only as incentive.. I can pretty much guarantee that info is in the Wizard magazines of old somewhere.
Yes, the Diamond database shows the other two blue variants as well. There isn't anything in the Diamond database for the regular editions, but those were Valiant products not Diamond exclusives, so I'm not surprised that the database (which doesn't normally go back to the early 1990s) doesn't have anything for most of the 1990s Valiant books.

Image

Image

My guess is that Valiant created the blue variants in 1992-1993, that Diamond ended up buying the remaining stock of blue variants to sell in 1995-1996, and maybe there was even a warehouse clearance sale at some point (which would explain one seller having so many later on Ebay).

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by valiantdude »

that makes sense.. so they dump the stock in the mid-to-late 90s, which of course throws the whole one for 25 ratio out the window, haha, but I think you were right about a very small amount of these books being printed, I don't know the print run of the trade paperback off the top of my head, but I'm sure it was over 100,000

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by valiantdude »

Also I don't think it was a situation where the books were giving away free, it was more like a situation where one you ordered 25 books the 25th book was blue

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Re: Harbinger TPB "bluebird"

Post by Chiclo »

valiantdude wrote:Do you guys think they that makes them more valuable than you thought, if they are 1 in 25 incentive variants?
I think that makes them less special, putting numbers to them like that. :(


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