VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

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kjjohanson
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by kjjohanson »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:I’m not any more focused on that than the other poor decisions Valiant has made in the last 12 months plus. No one ever debates how bad FVL Psi Lords or Bloodshot Rising Spirit was which I’ve pointed out numerous times, however it’s seems to trigger virtue signallers as soon as Heather’s diversity hiring is pointed out, hence the back and forths.
No, what's being pointed out is your penchant for making claims that you back up only with your assumptions rather than facts.
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by kjjohanson »

hawkeyeps wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
hawkeyeps wrote:Hot off the presses- https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... xFMeeDj3qI

XO is coming back in March brought to you by...wait for it Dallow...Heather Antos! facepalm
Nnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! facepalm
Editor Heather Antos added, “It was important to Valiant for this new X-O series to really bring a fresh and modern superhero take — Aric of Dacia teamed with the powerful sentient armor of Shanhara is a staple part of Valiant continuity — and who better to screw all that up but me? HA! Take that Dallow!” :wink:
:lol:
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by kjjohanson »

hawkeyeps wrote:Hot off the presses- https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... xFMeeDj3qI

XO is coming back in March brought to you by...wait for it Dallow...Heather Antos! facepalm
She's also the editor on Shadowman and Q&W.
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by GammaJosh »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
GammaJosh wrote:You know, it'd be really awesome to log on to this board and not see Breitbart talking points one day. Can I get through a thread without having to see "SJW", "triggered", "diversity hire", or "virtue signalling"? Stop focusing on everyone's race/gender/sexuality and stop bringing politics to a comic book message board. We get it already: "The left ruined Valiant." No need to repeat it ad nauseam.
Ok let’s just give up then and let the company many people have followed and supported for years go down the pan. No one speak out against ‘progressive ‘ politics, just accept that it’s inevitable, we get it already!
In order for that to in any way equal "giving up", you complaining on this board would have to in some way equal "helping".

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

hawkeyeps wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
hawkeyeps wrote:Hot off the presses- https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat- ... xFMeeDj3qI

XO is coming back in March brought to you by...wait for it Dallow...Heather Antos! facepalm
Nnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! facepalm
Editor Heather Antos added, “It was important to Valiant for this new X-O series to really bring a fresh and modern superhero take — Aric of Dacia teamed with the powerful sentient armor of Shanhara is a staple part of Valiant continuity — and who better to screw all that up but me? HA! Take that Dallow!” :wink:
Heather Antos 1 Dallow Spicer 0

This isn’t over Antos, ya hear me, this isn’t oveeeeeerrrr!! :P :lol:

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by kjjohanson »

GammaJosh wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
GammaJosh wrote:You know, it'd be really awesome to log on to this board and not see Breitbart talking points one day. Can I get through a thread without having to see "SJW", "triggered", "diversity hire", or "virtue signalling"? Stop focusing on everyone's race/gender/sexuality and stop bringing politics to a comic book message board. We get it already: "The left ruined Valiant." No need to repeat it ad nauseam.
Ok let’s just give up then and let the company many people have followed and supported for years go down the pan. No one speak out against ‘progressive ‘ politics, just accept that it’s inevitable, we get it already!
In order for that to in any way equal "giving up", you complaining on this board would have to in some way equal "helping".
QFT
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by kjjohanson »

GammaJosh wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
GammaJosh wrote:You know, it'd be really awesome to log on to this board and not see Breitbart talking points one day. Can I get through a thread without having to see "SJW", "triggered", "diversity hire", or "virtue signalling"? Stop focusing on everyone's race/gender/sexuality and stop bringing politics to a comic book message board. We get it already: "The left ruined Valiant." No need to repeat it ad nauseam.
Ok let’s just give up then and let the company many people have followed and supported for years go down the pan. No one speak out against ‘progressive ‘ politics, just accept that it’s inevitable, we get it already!
In order for that to in any way equal "giving up", you complaining on this board would have to in some way equal "helping".
Also, one would have to be addressing a solution to an actual problem rather than an imagined or a perceived problem
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

kjjohanson wrote:
GammaJosh wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
GammaJosh wrote:You know, it'd be really awesome to log on to this board and not see Breitbart talking points one day. Can I get through a thread without having to see "SJW", "triggered", "diversity hire", or "virtue signalling"? Stop ocusing on everyone's race/gender/sexuality and stop bringing politics to a comic book message board. We get it already: "The left ruined Valiant." No need to repeat it ad nauseam.
Ok let’s just give up then and let the company many people have followed and supported for years go down the pan. No one speak out against ‘progressive ‘ politics, just accept that it’s inevitable, we get it already!
In order for that to in any way equal "giving up", you complaining on this board would have to in some way equal "helping".
Also, one would have to be addressing a solution to an actual problem rather than an imagined or a perceived problem
I think I’ve underestimated you KJ, I’m now starting to think you’re trolling me and doing an expert job :!: I’ve literally set up a poll called ‘how to fix Valiant’ inviting board members to suggest ways of how to improve the situation. Side bar, ‘the books are fine as they are, keep it the same as 2019’ has had zero votes so far, not sure what you make of that!

You don’t even read the current books you’re that far behind :lol: Spoiler alert Kay McHenry dies but later comes back as some weird nanite thing!

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by kjjohanson »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
GammaJosh wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
GammaJosh wrote:You know, it'd be really awesome to log on to this board and not see Breitbart talking points one day. Can I get through a thread without having to see "SJW", "triggered", "diversity hire", or "virtue signalling"? Stop ocusing on everyone's race/gender/sexuality and stop bringing politics to a comic book message board. We get it already: "The left ruined Valiant." No need to repeat it ad nauseam.
Ok let’s just give up then and let the company many people have followed and supported for years go down the pan. No one speak out against ‘progressive ‘ politics, just accept that it’s inevitable, we get it already!
In order for that to in any way equal "giving up", you complaining on this board would have to in some way equal "helping".
Also, one would have to be addressing a solution to an actual problem rather than an imagined or a perceived problem
I think I’ve underestimated you KJ, I’m now starting to think you’re trolling me and doing an expert job :!: I’ve literally set up a poll called ‘how to fix Valiant’ inviting board members to suggest ways of how to improve the situation. Side bar, ‘the books are fine as they are, keep it the same as 2019’ has had zero votes so far, not sure what you make of that!

You don’t even read the current books you’re that far behind :lol: Spoiler alert Kay McHenry dies but later comes back as some weird nanite thing!
Maybe you should look in the quotes actually being responded to, and you will see that the imagined problem being referred to was what GammaJosh was calling out. I never said that Valiant didn't have it's problems. I'm just pointing out that you're convinced that there's a specific problem but the evidence doesn't support that it actually exists.
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by TheFerg714 »

kjjohanson wrote:Maybe you should look in the quotes actually being responded to, and you will see that the imagined problem being referred to was what GammaJosh was calling out. I never said that Valiant didn't have it's problems. I'm just pointing out that you're convinced that there's a specific problem but the evidence doesn't support that it actually exists.
You keep asking for evidence, but what evidence could he possibly provide? He doesn't have some sort of "in" with Valiant management, and even if he did, it would become anecdotal. He's drawing conclusions based on the limited evidence that he has been presented with, and there's nothing wrong with disagreeing, but asking for evidence isn't really going to do much good.

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by kjjohanson »

TheFerg714 wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:Maybe you should look in the quotes actually being responded to, and you will see that the imagined problem being referred to was what GammaJosh was calling out. I never said that Valiant didn't have it's problems. I'm just pointing out that you're convinced that there's a specific problem but the evidence doesn't support that it actually exists.
You keep asking for evidence, but what evidence could he possibly provide? He doesn't have some sort of "in" with Valiant management, and even if he did, it would become anecdotal. He's drawing conclusions based on the limited evidence that he has been presented with, and there's nothing wrong with disagreeing, but asking for evidence isn't really going to do much good.
He's insisting things are a certain way when there's reasonable evidence for alternate explanations. It's being closed-minded because he likes the conclusion that he's drawn.
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by Chiclo »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:I can’t wait until XO Manowar starts announcing his preferred pronouns each issue!
is/inna/is/imma

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by Oxmyx »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:Antos claims diversity is the NOT the main decision driver but I simply don’t believe her. IMO she’d rather virtue signal than drive Valiant to being a successful company.

So, if it's a matter of you not believing
You (or anyone else ) don’t have to take me seriously but then



how do you explain the statistical improbability of those set of writers working for Valiant in a short space of time, coupled with most of the reviews on this site of Livewire, FQ and Dr Mirage rating them as mediocre to poor?
Artists are freaks?
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by GammaJosh »

Valiant's November books and their writers:

Rai - white male
Bloodshot - white male
Killers - white male
Roku - white male
Doctor Mirage - white trans woman
Psi-Lords - white male
Livewire - black/latina woman

Valiant's not pulling writers from the general population. They're pulling writers from the pool of up and coming comics talent. Have you looked around a convention lately? There are a lot of people of color, and a lot of LGBTQ people, or at least there are on the east coast where I hang out. Maybe it's different in the midwest or south. I don't know. And I'm discounting the more famous boomer and gen X creators because frankly I don't think Valiant has the budget to hire them anymore. So I'm talking about younger creators. But based on what I've seen with my own eyes at conventions, tabling in artists alleys and just walking around with my eyes open, when you say that the fact that 2 out of 7 books being written by [insert whatever terminology you want to use for those folks] equals "diversity hiring", you are 100% talking out of your *SQUEE*. That number seems totally within the realm of proportionate representation of the actual pool of comics talent out there.

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by GammaJosh »

Let's take it a step further. Here's every writer (AFAIK) who wrote a new comic for Valiant in 2019:

Kevin Grevioux - black male
Vita Ayala - black/latin female
Matt Kindt - white male
Jody Houser - white female
Andy Diggle - white male
Alex Paknadel - white male
Tini Howard - white female
Joshua Dysart - white male
Cullen Bunn - white male
Dan Abnett - white male
Fred Van Lente - white male
B. Clay Moore - white male
Magdalene Vissagio - white female
Tim Seeley - white male
Paul Levitz - white male
Eliot Rahal - white male

16 total writers:

White: 14/16
Male: 12/16
Female: 4/16
Non-white: 2/16
LGBTQ: 3 or 4/16? (This is asinine to even get in to, and I'm only doing it to shut down DallowSpicer's arguments about diversity hiring.)

16 writers isn't a statistically significant sample size, but it's plainly obvious that there's no "diversity hiring" mandate happening, or else 14 out of 16 writers wouldn't be white. The only argument that you could possibly make is that the LGBTQ representation is a little high compared to the population, but frankly, among younger comics creators, I'm not sure it is. And most of those writers have been repeatedly hired by other major publishers, so your "diversity hiring" claim would have to expand to a "multi-publisher diversity hiring conspiracy" claim, and if you want to go there then you're just pure ComicsGate and there's no point trying to talk any sense into you.

So, again, anyone going on about "diversity hiring" is clearly talking out of their *SQUEE*. It's an imagined problem that conveniently fits a pre-conceived narrative.

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by hawkeyeps »

Soy Boys don't count :wink:

And based on that list I see 3 non-soy dudes even though one of them is very soy but they don't come off that way and I can respect that.

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by hawkeyeps »

:breakingnews: 3000 posts!!

Suck it Dunlow!! :superstar:

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by kjjohanson »

hawkeyeps wrote:Soy Boys don't count :wink:

And based on that list I see 3 non-soy dudes even though one of them is very soy but they don't come off that way and I can respect that.
Um, what? "soy boy"?
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by hawkeyeps »

kjjohanson wrote:
hawkeyeps wrote:Soy Boys don't count :wink:

And based on that list I see 3 non-soy dudes even though one of them is very soy but they don't come off that way and I can respect that.
Um, what? "soy boy"?
Is that like the N word now? Sorry I can't keep up with the language police.

Seriously though I think politics has infected the comics, Kindt with Livewire is a perfect example- when Obama was president everything was great but once Trump was elected some creators felt it was their duty to actively resist. The change was palpable and it was across all the books and now here we are 3 years in and the ship is sinking but the denial continues.

It's not hard to fix stuff, just look at The Mandelorian, give the fans what they want and put your agenda aside.

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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

GammaJosh wrote:Let's take it a step further. Here's every writer (AFAIK) who wrote a new comic for Valiant in 2019:

Kevin Grevioux - black male
Vita Ayala - black/latin female
Matt Kindt - white male
Jody Houser - white female
Andy Diggle - white male
Alex Paknadel - white male
Tini Howard - white female
Joshua Dysart - white male
Cullen Bunn - white male
Dan Abnett - white male
Fred Van Lente - white male
B. Clay Moore - white male
Magdalene Vissagio - white female
Tim Seeley - white male
Paul Levitz - white male
Eliot Rahal - white male

16 total writers:

White: 14/16
Male: 12/16
Female: 4/16
Non-white: 2/16
LGBTQ: 3 or 4/16? (This is asinine to even get in to, and I'm only doing it to shut down DallowSpicer's arguments about diversity hiring.)

16 writers isn't a statistically significant sample size, but it's plainly obvious that there's no "diversity hiring" mandate happening, or else 14 out of 16 writers wouldn't be white. The only argument that you could possibly make is that the LGBTQ representation is a little high compared to the population, but frankly, among younger comics creators, I'm not sure it is. And most of those writers have been repeatedly hired by other major publishers, so your "diversity hiring" claim would have to expand to a "multi-publisher diversity hiring conspiracy" claim, and if you want to go there then you're just pure ComicsGate and there's no point trying to talk any sense into you.

So, again, anyone going on about "diversity hiring" is clearly talking out of their *SQUEE*. It's an imagined problem that conveniently fits a pre-conceivedevcr narrative.
Point of privilege...my pronouns are he/him

There’s diversity hiring in many professions, including the police so let’s not pretend it’s some wacky conspiracy theory that doesn’t influence Marvel and DC!

However to the point of Valiant, the smoking gun is Heather Antos openly stating that diversity is ‘a factor’ of her hiring decisions. How big a ‘factor’ this is has been debated numerous times (shout outs to KJ), but the fact that it’s even a consideration is problematic in itself. The criteria should be:

A) Can this person deliver a quality product which fans will want to buy?

End of criteria

And as for your claims of whose attending conventions on the west coast i’d say this, those people are not buying the books as the sales show (evidence for KJ, he likes evidence). Valiant already had a solid readership base which has diminished due to Valiant’s strategy post Dinesh (a POC I believe who has a ridiculous amount of support and loyalty from this group).

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VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by AnarchoMambo »

Holy-, is this for real? A nice takedown just occurred courtesy of some facts, and I go to bed last night thinking they will finally let it rest....

...only to wake up this morning and read these guys actually doubling down on this garbage? Unbelievable!

Isn’t it true that some of these characters do podcasts? Do they have labels and judgments for everyone on their independently-produced opinion pieces too? Does anybody actually tune in and listen to their stuff?
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by GammaJosh »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
GammaJosh wrote:Let's take it a step further. Here's every writer (AFAIK) who wrote a new comic for Valiant in 2019:

Kevin Grevioux - black male
Vita Ayala - black/latin female
Matt Kindt - white male
Jody Houser - white female
Andy Diggle - white male
Alex Paknadel - white male
Tini Howard - white female
Joshua Dysart - white male
Cullen Bunn - white male
Dan Abnett - white male
Fred Van Lente - white male
B. Clay Moore - white male
Magdalene Vissagio - white female
Tim Seeley - white male
Paul Levitz - white male
Eliot Rahal - white male

16 total writers:

White: 14/16
Male: 12/16
Female: 4/16
Non-white: 2/16
LGBTQ: 3 or 4/16? (This is asinine to even get in to, and I'm only doing it to shut down DallowSpicer's arguments about diversity hiring.)

16 writers isn't a statistically significant sample size, but it's plainly obvious that there's no "diversity hiring" mandate happening, or else 14 out of 16 writers wouldn't be white. The only argument that you could possibly make is that the LGBTQ representation is a little high compared to the population, but frankly, among younger comics creators, I'm not sure it is. And most of those writers have been repeatedly hired by other major publishers, so your "diversity hiring" claim would have to expand to a "multi-publisher diversity hiring conspiracy" claim, and if you want to go there then you're just pure ComicsGate and there's no point trying to talk any sense into you.

So, again, anyone going on about "diversity hiring" is clearly talking out of their *SQUEE*. It's an imagined problem that conveniently fits a pre-conceivedevcr narrative.
However to the point of Valiant, the smoking gun is Heather Antos openly stating that diversity is ‘a factor’ of her hiring decisions.
"Smoking gun" proving what? That Valiant had 14/16 white writers this year? The numbers are staring you in the face and you're still on your ridiculous rant. If you don't like the books, that's fine. But the numbers clearly show these books you don't like are mostly being written by straight white people, so you need to find a new scapegoat. But we get it: you don't want women or gay people making your comics. You don't identify with them and you're afraid a penis might accidentally fall into your butt and you might like it. Sorry. It's 2019. Get over it.

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GammaJosh
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by GammaJosh »

AnarchoMambo wrote:Holy-, is this for real? A nice takedown just occurred courtesy of some facts, and I go to bed last night thinking they will finally let it rest....
Data doesn't move the right. It was cold and snowed somewhere yesterday, so that outweighs any scientific data and proves global warming is a hoax.

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GammaJosh
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by GammaJosh »

hawkeyeps wrote:Soy Boys don't count :wink:

And based on that list I see 3 non-soy dudes even though one of them is very soy but they don't come off that way and I can respect that.
So we're counting liberals as diversity hires now?

For those who don't know, a "soy boy" is a right wing insult for men who aren't overtly masculine enough for their standards and don't greet each other only with headbutts because "hugs are gay". (ie. vegeterians, hence "soy")

You guys realize we're talking about writers, right? Creative people? The venn diagram with people who enjoy power lifting and mud-bogging is not going to have a lot of overlap.

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Dallow Spicer1
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

GammaJosh wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
GammaJosh wrote:Let's take it a step further. Here's every writer (AFAIK) who wrote a new comic for Valiant in 2019:

Kevin Grevioux - black male
Vita Ayala - black/latin female
Matt Kindt - white male
Jody Houser - white female
Andy Diggle - white male
Alex Paknadel - white male
Tini Howard - white female
Joshua Dysart - white male
Cullen Bunn - white male
Dan Abnett - white male
Fred Van Lente - white male
B. Clay Moore - white male
Magdalene Vissagio - white female
Tim Seeley - white male
Paul Levitz - white male
Eliot Rahal - white male

16 total writers:

White: 14/16
Male: 12/16
Female: 4/16
Non-white: 2/16
LGBTQ: 3 or 4/16? (This is asinine to even get in to, and I'm only doing it to shut down DallowSpicer's arguments about diversity hiring.)

16 writers isn't a statistically significant sample size, but it's plainly obvious that there's no "diversity hiring" mandate happening, or else 14 out of 16 writers wouldn't be white. The only argument that you could possibly make is that the LGBTQ representation is a little high compared to the population, but frankly, among younger comics creators, I'm not sure it is. And most of those writers have been repeatedly hired by other major publishers, so your "diversity hiring" claim would have to expand to a "multi-publisher diversity hiring conspiracy" claim, and if you want to go there then you're just pure ComicsGate and there's no point trying to talk any sense into you.

So, again, anyone going on about "diversity hiring" is clearly talking out of their *SQUEE*. It's an imagined problem that conveniently fits a pre-conceivedevcr narrative.
However to the point of Valiant, the smoking gun is Heather Antos openly stating that diversity is ‘a factor’ of her hiring decisions.
"Smoking gun" proving what? That Valiant had 14/16 white writers this year? The numbers are staring you in the face and you're still on your ridiculous rant. If you don't like the books, that's fine. But the numbers clearly show these books you don't like are mostly being written by straight white people, so you need to find a new scapegoat. But we get it: you don't want women or gay people making your comics. You don't identify with them and you're afraid a penis might accidentally fall into your butt and you might like it. Sorry. It's 2019. Get over it.
:lol: :clap: That really amused me, thanks for brightening up a grey day!

But onto your points raised ...I can only assume wilful ignorance or you just don’t pay close attention but I’ve been the most critical of many books over the last 12-18 months l, the dire BS Rising Spirit as an example but consistently of FVL ( a straight, white male :? ) more than any of Heather’s diversity hires. Why would I have anything against women or gay people, that’s insane? My point consistently has been talent should be the only thing the editors worry about when they hire, nothing else.
If those same writers wrote great books (and left out their liberal politics) it wouldn’t concern me in the slightest what gender of sexual preference they were.

Slightly different point I know, but Josh Dysart is opposite ends of the spectrum from me in terms of politics but he’s he’s a great writer and he doesn’t bring his personal politics into his books ( or not in an over bearing way). He could write every single Valiant book if it were up to me.

So just for clarity, talented writers (and no biased politics) regardless of identity = Yes

Mediocre writers regardless of identity = No

Surely we can all get on board with that?


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