Disregarding continuity...a solution?

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Dallow Spicer1
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Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

So I listened to the recent Valiant Central podcast which had Valiant editor David Menchel on for an interview. Menchel gave the usual blurb about ‘how important the fans are’ yadda yadda. But it was his spiel about continuity which got me and ‘how important it is to respect continuity’ which I want to bring up.

In the interview he talks about the new Savage #1 book due to be released soon. Let’s just recap on the first mini-series of Savage. A Lewis Larosa drawn book telling a brutal story of a young family marooned on a mysterious island where a young boy’s parents are brutally murdered, culminating in his escape from the island through a portal where he lands in the middle of a packed central London....what will happen next?

Well it turns out that in Acclaim 2.0, we don’t get to find out what happens next as the new writer ‘doesn’t want to tell that story’ :? and instead jumps the story 2 years ahead for some cartoony, comedic drivel with goofy Q&W esque villains :o

So much for respecting continuity!

Same with Bloodshot, last we seen him he had Magic and daughter....not anymore ...no explanation just gone

Same with XO, no link to previous continuity but now a buddy cop style story where the alien armour has snappy banter facepalm

So what’s the solution? I get that the current regime want a ‘fresh start’ to attract new readers but what’s the point in having a shared universe and continuity when events don’t matter as soon as a new writer comes on board? A solution could be to have a one-shot or mini which is released before a new ongoing series. The purpose of the one shot/mini is to ‘tidy up’ the continuity in a satisfactory way before the new writer takes the series in a new direction. This way, long time readers are not short changed.

Of course, this won’t help the poor choices on direction for the Bloodshot, XO and Savage books but at least the change is not as jarring.

Anyone have a better idea?

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by hawkeyeps »

Stop publishing all together?

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

hawkeyeps wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:16:53 pm Stop publishing all together?
I think that’s where we’re headed unless there’s a big overhaul of people in charge.

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by armlessphelan »

I think is what zero issues could be used for in regards to ongoings. A way to link the new with the old without tying a writer's hands behind their back. As for a mini, I feel like the rules are different because if they wanted to continue the story a previous writer started they would have just brought that writer back.

But I'm also in the minority on this board because I thought Forgotten Queen and Roku were both fine books and I love The Visitor.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

armlessphelan wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:42:46 pm I think is what zero issues could be used for in regards to ongoings. A way to link the new with the old without tying a writer's hands behind their back. As for a mini, I feel like the rules are different because if they wanted to continue the story a previous writer started they would have just brought that writer back.
I don’t think they have the option of bringing writers back, certainly that’s the case with Venditti and Lemire. Not sure why B Clay Moore didn’t write the new Savage as he still works at Valiant?
armlessphelan wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:42:46 pm But I'm also in the minority on this board because I thought Forgotten Queen and Roku were both fine books and I love The Visitor.
You sure are :P

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by geocarr »

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to ignore continuity of a shared universe that won and was nominated for as many awards as pre-DMG VEI was. :?
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

geocarr wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:15:42 pm I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to ignore continuity of a shared universe that won and was nominated for as many awards as pre-DMG VEI was. :?
It’s all about ‘new jumping on points ‘ to attract new readers, but in my view it’s short term thinking. The point of following a shared universe is that events matter and have consequences. As soon as they don’t then what’s the point, you might as well be watching a Bugs Bunny cartoon.

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by dornwolf »

The X-O one really *SQUEE* me off the most for some reason. It just doesn't even feel like the same character. Hell it's not even the first time that happened either

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by armlessphelan »

dornwolf wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:17:24 pm The X-O one really *SQUEE* me off the most for some reason. It just doesn't even feel like the same character. Hell it's not even the first time that happened either
There is no defence for X-O. None. And I say this as someone who has liked the writer on other books.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by geocarr »

Wouldn't it be a good idea if all Valiant characters had a psych profile and list of other characteristics that should be held as dogma by editorial and mandated to all creators?
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by betterthanezra »

Forgetting continuity or ignoring it shouldn't be a "thing" no writer should be given that option. This is all about editorial and what they are demanding from the teams brought in on the books.

I don't like it

You don't like it

No one at the current DMG run Valiant cares that either of us don't like it

That's the problem

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

betterthanezra wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:20:53 am Forgetting continuity or ignoring it shouldn't be a "thing" no writer should be given that option. This is all about editorial and what they are demanding from the teams brought in on the books.

I don't like it

You don't like it

No one at the current DMG run Valiant cares that either of us don't like it

That's the problem

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Agree 100%

The new writer on Savage said he ‘didn’t want to write the story of Savage adjusting to modern life’?! Erm...ok well get a writer who does :?

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by IMJ »

One of the key things that made me a Valiant diehard was the continuity building that led to and followed Unity.

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by BugsySig »

While I agree the recent titles are blatantly busting continuity, we shouldn’t pretend VEI didn’t often do the same.

The original EW arc by Greg Pak, anyone?

Dead Drop made no sense character-wise.

Bloodshot was (and still is) all over the place. It finally settled with the Lemire run, but not without its own continuity issues.

Book of Death?

That’s just a few off the top of my head, but there are others. Certainly it was better than DMG, but nothing will ever compare to Shooter-era VH1.


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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

BugsySig wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:06:11 pm While I agree the recent titles are blatantly busting continuity, we shouldn’t pretend VEI didn’t often do the same.

The original EW arc by Greg Pak, anyone?

Dead Drop made no sense character-wise.

Bloodshot was (and still is) all over the place. It finally settled with the Lemire run, but not without its own continuity issues.

Book of Death?

That’s just a few off the top of my head, but there are others. Certainly it was better than DMG, but nothing will ever compare to Shooter-era VH1.


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That’s true and there were a fair share of duds too but the percentage of hit rate was so much higher than what we see today which is virtually non-existent.

And to be fair, we gave Dino a hard time when the continuity wasn’t up to scratch, at least I know I did.

But there’s levels to this stuff and the current quality and continuity is not comparable to pre-DMG.

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by grendeljd »

geocarr wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:32:25 pm Wouldn't it be a good idea if all Valiant characters had a psych profile and list of other characteristics that should be held as dogma by editorial and mandated to all creators?
Seriously, how hard can it be to keep & adhere to an updated character profile with key continuity points annotated to it. Give it to any writers looking to make a new pitch for a series. They wouldn’t even have to read through old issues that way, it would be a form of shorthand reference!
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by grendeljd »

betterthanezra wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:20:53 am Forgetting continuity or ignoring it shouldn't be a "thing" no writer should be given that option. This is all about editorial and what they are demanding from the teams brought in on the books.

I don't like it

You don't like it

No one at the current DMG run Valiant cares that either of us don't like it

That's the problem

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by geocarr »

grendeljd wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:54:43 pm
geocarr wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:32:25 pm Wouldn't it be a good idea if all Valiant characters had a psych profile and list of other characteristics that should be held as dogma by editorial and mandated to all creators?
Seriously, how hard can it be to keep & adhere to an updated character profile with key continuity points annotated to it. Give it to any writers looking to make a new pitch for a series. They wouldn’t even have to read through old issues that way, it would be a form of shorthand reference!
I can't imagine having a comic book company without having something like this.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by TheFerg714 »

BugsySig wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:06:11 pm While I agree the recent titles are blatantly busting continuity, we shouldn’t pretend VEI didn’t often do the same.
...are you serious?
The original EW arc by Greg Pak, anyone?
Out of VEI's first 7 books, one arc had severe continuity problems. That's hardly the same as DMG doing it with every single series, and on top of that, the second arc was awesome and instrumental in setting up 4001 A.D. It was a course correction for the better.
Dead Drop made no sense character-wise.
Well there's one mini you've managed to find, and I would argue that issues #3-4 are solid and not character-breaking.
Bloodshot was (and still is) all over the place. It finally settled with the Lemire run, but not without its own continuity issues.
No, not really. From Bloodshot, to HARD Corps, to Armor Hunters, to The Valiant, to Lemire's run, there's a clear progression.
Book of Death?
You're gonna blame VEI for trying something as ballsy as Book of Death? I don't really think there's any huge continuity problems either way.

I'm not saying that VEI never had continuity problems, but it's kind of remarkable how good they were at keeping continuity straight. VEI's work cannot be compared to DMG's in this regard.

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by TheFerg714 »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:25:06 pm That’s true and there were a fair share of duds too but the percentage of hit rate was so much higher than what we see today which is virtually non-existent.
Rai's a hit, at least among (sp?) the "fandom," and Dr. Tomorrow seems to be fairly well received. So that's a solid... 25% hit rate?

I think, if we look at DMG's 2019 output, it would reach about 50%, at least from my perspective.

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

TheFerg714 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 11:32:35 am
Dallow Spicer1 wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:25:06 pm That’s true and there were a fair share of duds too but the percentage of hit rate was so much higher than what we see today which is virtually non-existent.
Rai's a hit, at least among (sp?) the "fandom," and Dr. Tomorrow seems to be fairly well received. So that's a solid... 25% hit rate?

I think, if we look at DMG's 2019 output, it would reach about 50%, at least from my perspective.
50% hit rate in 2019...seems generous. LADOTH and Fallen World obviously both yes ...can’t recall anything else that would be classed as above average?

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by TheFerg714 »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 1:13:51 pm
TheFerg714 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 11:32:35 am
Dallow Spicer1 wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:25:06 pm That’s true and there were a fair share of duds too but the percentage of hit rate was so much higher than what we see today which is virtually non-existent.
Rai's a hit, at least among (sp?) the "fandom," and Dr. Tomorrow seems to be fairly well received. So that's a solid... 25% hit rate?

I think, if we look at DMG's 2019 output, it would reach about 50%, at least from my perspective.
50% hit rate in 2019...seems generous. LADOTH and Fallen World obviously both yes ...can’t recall anything else that would be classed as above average?
Well seeing as I literally have nothing to do, and also have a handy spreadsheet (don't judge me), I'm going to go through and rank all of the arcs from 2019 and average them.

Okay, I scored them all, out of 5, and the average ended up being 3! So, I guess, from my perspective, I wasn't wrong!

I think there were some solid titles. When I inevitably do a full VEI reread, I'm not going to deprive myself of those great stories. I really loved LaDoTH (obviously), Incursion, Livewire Vol. 1, Fallen World, Punk Mambo, Killers, and Rai. Those series, and the final arc of Kindt's X-O (which was way better than his last two arcs) elevated 2019 for me. That said, it's still at 50%, which is not a good number at all. That's an 'F,' and a deserved one. I gave Bloodshot Vol. 1, Livewire Vol. 2, Dr. Mirage, and Psi-Lords Vol. 2 a score of 2.5/5, which is passable, with the rest falling below that. Psi-Lords #1-4, The Forgotten Queen, Roku, Livewire Vol. 3, and especially Bloodshot RS are not good books.

Like I said in the previous comment, 2020 is like barely at a 25% for me. Valiant is not in a good place right now, and they're going to have to turn it around fast in order for me to give a *SQUEE*.

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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

TheFerg714 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 3:35:57 pm
Dallow Spicer1 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 1:13:51 pm
TheFerg714 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 11:32:35 am
Dallow Spicer1 wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:25:06 pm That’s true and there were a fair share of duds too but the percentage of hit rate was so much higher than what we see today which is virtually non-existent.
Rai's a hit, at least among (sp?) the "fandom," and Dr. Tomorrow seems to be fairly well received. So that's a solid... 25% hit rate?

I think, if we look at DMG's 2019 output, it would reach about 50%, at least from my perspective.
50% hit rate in 2019...seems generous. LADOTH and Fallen World obviously both yes ...can’t recall anything else that would be classed as above average?
Well seeing as I literally have nothing to do, and also have a handy spreadsheet (don't judge me), I'm going to go through and rank all of the arcs from 2019 and average them.

Okay, I scored them all, out of 5, and the average ended up being 3! So, I guess, from my perspective, I wasn't wrong!

I think there were some solid titles. When I inevitably do a full VEI reread, I'm not going to deprive myself of those great stories. I really loved LaDoTH (obviously), Incursion, Livewire Vol. 1, Fallen World, Punk Mambo, Killers, and Rai. Those series, and the final arc of Kindt's X-O (which was way better than his last two arcs) elevated 2019 for me. That said, it's still at 50%, which is not a good number at all. That's an 'F,' and a deserved one. I gave Bloodshot Vol. 1, Livewire Vol. 2, Dr. Mirage, and Psi-Lords Vol. 2 a score of 2.5/5, which is passable, with the rest falling below that. Psi-Lords #1-4, The Forgotten Queen, Roku, Livewire Vol. 3, and especially Bloodshot RS are not good books.

Like I said in the previous comment, 2020 is like barely at a 25% for me. Valiant is not in a good place right now, and they're going to have to turn it around fast in order for me to give a *SQUEE*.
Glad someone is keeping score :thumb:
I’d broadly agree with that, might quibble on a couple but nothing major.
I still haven’t read XO#1 so I’m bracing myself for a big disappointment!


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