Disregarding continuity...a solution?
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- Dallow Spicer1
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Disregarding continuity...a solution?
So I listened to the recent Valiant Central podcast which had Valiant editor David Menchel on for an interview. Menchel gave the usual blurb about ‘how important the fans are’ yadda yadda. But it was his spiel about continuity which got me and ‘how important it is to respect continuity’ which I want to bring up.
In the interview he talks about the new Savage #1 book due to be released soon. Let’s just recap on the first mini-series of Savage. A Lewis Larosa drawn book telling a brutal story of a young family marooned on a mysterious island where a young boy’s parents are brutally murdered, culminating in his escape from the island through a portal where he lands in the middle of a packed central London....what will happen next?
Well it turns out that in Acclaim 2.0, we don’t get to find out what happens next as the new writer ‘doesn’t want to tell that story’ and instead jumps the story 2 years ahead for some cartoony, comedic drivel with goofy Q&W esque villains
So much for respecting continuity!
Same with Bloodshot, last we seen him he had Magic and daughter....not anymore ...no explanation just gone
Same with XO, no link to previous continuity but now a buddy cop style story where the alien armour has snappy banter
So what’s the solution? I get that the current regime want a ‘fresh start’ to attract new readers but what’s the point in having a shared universe and continuity when events don’t matter as soon as a new writer comes on board? A solution could be to have a one-shot or mini which is released before a new ongoing series. The purpose of the one shot/mini is to ‘tidy up’ the continuity in a satisfactory way before the new writer takes the series in a new direction. This way, long time readers are not short changed.
Of course, this won’t help the poor choices on direction for the Bloodshot, XO and Savage books but at least the change is not as jarring.
Anyone have a better idea?
In the interview he talks about the new Savage #1 book due to be released soon. Let’s just recap on the first mini-series of Savage. A Lewis Larosa drawn book telling a brutal story of a young family marooned on a mysterious island where a young boy’s parents are brutally murdered, culminating in his escape from the island through a portal where he lands in the middle of a packed central London....what will happen next?
Well it turns out that in Acclaim 2.0, we don’t get to find out what happens next as the new writer ‘doesn’t want to tell that story’ and instead jumps the story 2 years ahead for some cartoony, comedic drivel with goofy Q&W esque villains
So much for respecting continuity!
Same with Bloodshot, last we seen him he had Magic and daughter....not anymore ...no explanation just gone
Same with XO, no link to previous continuity but now a buddy cop style story where the alien armour has snappy banter
So what’s the solution? I get that the current regime want a ‘fresh start’ to attract new readers but what’s the point in having a shared universe and continuity when events don’t matter as soon as a new writer comes on board? A solution could be to have a one-shot or mini which is released before a new ongoing series. The purpose of the one shot/mini is to ‘tidy up’ the continuity in a satisfactory way before the new writer takes the series in a new direction. This way, long time readers are not short changed.
Of course, this won’t help the poor choices on direction for the Bloodshot, XO and Savage books but at least the change is not as jarring.
Anyone have a better idea?
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
Stop publishing all together?
- Dallow Spicer1
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
I think is what zero issues could be used for in regards to ongoings. A way to link the new with the old without tying a writer's hands behind their back. As for a mini, I feel like the rules are different because if they wanted to continue the story a previous writer started they would have just brought that writer back.
But I'm also in the minority on this board because I thought Forgotten Queen and Roku were both fine books and I love The Visitor.
But I'm also in the minority on this board because I thought Forgotten Queen and Roku were both fine books and I love The Visitor.
Manga, comics, who cares? They're pretty much the same thing.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
I don’t think they have the option of bringing writers back, certainly that’s the case with Venditti and Lemire. Not sure why B Clay Moore didn’t write the new Savage as he still works at Valiant?armlessphelan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:42:46 pm I think is what zero issues could be used for in regards to ongoings. A way to link the new with the old without tying a writer's hands behind their back. As for a mini, I feel like the rules are different because if they wanted to continue the story a previous writer started they would have just brought that writer back.
You sure arearmlessphelan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:42:46 pm But I'm also in the minority on this board because I thought Forgotten Queen and Roku were both fine books and I love The Visitor.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to ignore continuity of a shared universe that won and was nominated for as many awards as pre-DMG VEI was.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
It’s all about ‘new jumping on points ‘ to attract new readers, but in my view it’s short term thinking. The point of following a shared universe is that events matter and have consequences. As soon as they don’t then what’s the point, you might as well be watching a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
The X-O one really *SQUEE* me off the most for some reason. It just doesn't even feel like the same character. Hell it's not even the first time that happened either
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
There is no defence for X-O. None. And I say this as someone who has liked the writer on other books.
Manga, comics, who cares? They're pretty much the same thing.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
Wouldn't it be a good idea if all Valiant characters had a psych profile and list of other characteristics that should be held as dogma by editorial and mandated to all creators?
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
Forgetting continuity or ignoring it shouldn't be a "thing" no writer should be given that option. This is all about editorial and what they are demanding from the teams brought in on the books.
I don't like it
You don't like it
No one at the current DMG run Valiant cares that either of us don't like it
That's the problem
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You don't like it
No one at the current DMG run Valiant cares that either of us don't like it
That's the problem
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
Agree 100%betterthanezra wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:20:53 am Forgetting continuity or ignoring it shouldn't be a "thing" no writer should be given that option. This is all about editorial and what they are demanding from the teams brought in on the books.
I don't like it
You don't like it
No one at the current DMG run Valiant cares that either of us don't like it
That's the problem
-Brian
The new writer on Savage said he ‘didn’t want to write the story of Savage adjusting to modern life’?! Erm...ok well get a writer who does
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
One of the key things that made me a Valiant diehard was the continuity building that led to and followed Unity.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
While I agree the recent titles are blatantly busting continuity, we shouldn’t pretend VEI didn’t often do the same.
The original EW arc by Greg Pak, anyone?
Dead Drop made no sense character-wise.
Bloodshot was (and still is) all over the place. It finally settled with the Lemire run, but not without its own continuity issues.
Book of Death?
That’s just a few off the top of my head, but there are others. Certainly it was better than DMG, but nothing will ever compare to Shooter-era VH1.
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The original EW arc by Greg Pak, anyone?
Dead Drop made no sense character-wise.
Bloodshot was (and still is) all over the place. It finally settled with the Lemire run, but not without its own continuity issues.
Book of Death?
That’s just a few off the top of my head, but there are others. Certainly it was better than DMG, but nothing will ever compare to Shooter-era VH1.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
That’s true and there were a fair share of duds too but the percentage of hit rate was so much higher than what we see today which is virtually non-existent.BugsySig wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:06:11 pm While I agree the recent titles are blatantly busting continuity, we shouldn’t pretend VEI didn’t often do the same.
The original EW arc by Greg Pak, anyone?
Dead Drop made no sense character-wise.
Bloodshot was (and still is) all over the place. It finally settled with the Lemire run, but not without its own continuity issues.
Book of Death?
That’s just a few off the top of my head, but there are others. Certainly it was better than DMG, but nothing will ever compare to Shooter-era VH1.
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And to be fair, we gave Dino a hard time when the continuity wasn’t up to scratch, at least I know I did.
But there’s levels to this stuff and the current quality and continuity is not comparable to pre-DMG.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
Seriously, how hard can it be to keep & adhere to an updated character profile with key continuity points annotated to it. Give it to any writers looking to make a new pitch for a series. They wouldn’t even have to read through old issues that way, it would be a form of shorthand reference!
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
Well said!betterthanezra wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:20:53 am Forgetting continuity or ignoring it shouldn't be a "thing" no writer should be given that option. This is all about editorial and what they are demanding from the teams brought in on the books.
I don't like it
You don't like it
No one at the current DMG run Valiant cares that either of us don't like it
That's the problem
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
I can't imagine having a comic book company without having something like this.grendeljd wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:54:43 pmSeriously, how hard can it be to keep & adhere to an updated character profile with key continuity points annotated to it. Give it to any writers looking to make a new pitch for a series. They wouldn’t even have to read through old issues that way, it would be a form of shorthand reference!
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
...are you serious?
Out of VEI's first 7 books, one arc had severe continuity problems. That's hardly the same as DMG doing it with every single series, and on top of that, the second arc was awesome and instrumental in setting up 4001 A.D. It was a course correction for the better.The original EW arc by Greg Pak, anyone?
Well there's one mini you've managed to find, and I would argue that issues #3-4 are solid and not character-breaking.Dead Drop made no sense character-wise.
No, not really. From Bloodshot, to HARD Corps, to Armor Hunters, to The Valiant, to Lemire's run, there's a clear progression.Bloodshot was (and still is) all over the place. It finally settled with the Lemire run, but not without its own continuity issues.
You're gonna blame VEI for trying something as ballsy as Book of Death? I don't really think there's any huge continuity problems either way.Book of Death?
I'm not saying that VEI never had continuity problems, but it's kind of remarkable how good they were at keeping continuity straight. VEI's work cannot be compared to DMG's in this regard.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
Rai's a hit, at least among (sp?) the "fandom," and Dr. Tomorrow seems to be fairly well received. So that's a solid... 25% hit rate?Dallow Spicer1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:25:06 pm That’s true and there were a fair share of duds too but the percentage of hit rate was so much higher than what we see today which is virtually non-existent.
I think, if we look at DMG's 2019 output, it would reach about 50%, at least from my perspective.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
50% hit rate in 2019...seems generous. LADOTH and Fallen World obviously both yes ...can’t recall anything else that would be classed as above average?TheFerg714 wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 11:32:35 amRai's a hit, at least among (sp?) the "fandom," and Dr. Tomorrow seems to be fairly well received. So that's a solid... 25% hit rate?Dallow Spicer1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:25:06 pm That’s true and there were a fair share of duds too but the percentage of hit rate was so much higher than what we see today which is virtually non-existent.
I think, if we look at DMG's 2019 output, it would reach about 50%, at least from my perspective.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
Well seeing as I literally have nothing to do, and also have a handy spreadsheet (don't judge me), I'm going to go through and rank all of the arcs from 2019 and average them.Dallow Spicer1 wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 1:13:51 pm50% hit rate in 2019...seems generous. LADOTH and Fallen World obviously both yes ...can’t recall anything else that would be classed as above average?TheFerg714 wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 11:32:35 amRai's a hit, at least among (sp?) the "fandom," and Dr. Tomorrow seems to be fairly well received. So that's a solid... 25% hit rate?Dallow Spicer1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:25:06 pm That’s true and there were a fair share of duds too but the percentage of hit rate was so much higher than what we see today which is virtually non-existent.
I think, if we look at DMG's 2019 output, it would reach about 50%, at least from my perspective.
Okay, I scored them all, out of 5, and the average ended up being 3! So, I guess, from my perspective, I wasn't wrong!
I think there were some solid titles. When I inevitably do a full VEI reread, I'm not going to deprive myself of those great stories. I really loved LaDoTH (obviously), Incursion, Livewire Vol. 1, Fallen World, Punk Mambo, Killers, and Rai. Those series, and the final arc of Kindt's X-O (which was way better than his last two arcs) elevated 2019 for me. That said, it's still at 50%, which is not a good number at all. That's an 'F,' and a deserved one. I gave Bloodshot Vol. 1, Livewire Vol. 2, Dr. Mirage, and Psi-Lords Vol. 2 a score of 2.5/5, which is passable, with the rest falling below that. Psi-Lords #1-4, The Forgotten Queen, Roku, Livewire Vol. 3, and especially Bloodshot RS are not good books.
Like I said in the previous comment, 2020 is like barely at a 25% for me. Valiant is not in a good place right now, and they're going to have to turn it around fast in order for me to give a *SQUEE*.
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Re: Disregarding continuity...a solution?
Glad someone is keeping scoreTheFerg714 wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 3:35:57 pmWell seeing as I literally have nothing to do, and also have a handy spreadsheet (don't judge me), I'm going to go through and rank all of the arcs from 2019 and average them.Dallow Spicer1 wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 1:13:51 pm50% hit rate in 2019...seems generous. LADOTH and Fallen World obviously both yes ...can’t recall anything else that would be classed as above average?TheFerg714 wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 11:32:35 amRai's a hit, at least among (sp?) the "fandom," and Dr. Tomorrow seems to be fairly well received. So that's a solid... 25% hit rate?Dallow Spicer1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:25:06 pm That’s true and there were a fair share of duds too but the percentage of hit rate was so much higher than what we see today which is virtually non-existent.
I think, if we look at DMG's 2019 output, it would reach about 50%, at least from my perspective.
Okay, I scored them all, out of 5, and the average ended up being 3! So, I guess, from my perspective, I wasn't wrong!
I think there were some solid titles. When I inevitably do a full VEI reread, I'm not going to deprive myself of those great stories. I really loved LaDoTH (obviously), Incursion, Livewire Vol. 1, Fallen World, Punk Mambo, Killers, and Rai. Those series, and the final arc of Kindt's X-O (which was way better than his last two arcs) elevated 2019 for me. That said, it's still at 50%, which is not a good number at all. That's an 'F,' and a deserved one. I gave Bloodshot Vol. 1, Livewire Vol. 2, Dr. Mirage, and Psi-Lords Vol. 2 a score of 2.5/5, which is passable, with the rest falling below that. Psi-Lords #1-4, The Forgotten Queen, Roku, Livewire Vol. 3, and especially Bloodshot RS are not good books.
Like I said in the previous comment, 2020 is like barely at a 25% for me. Valiant is not in a good place right now, and they're going to have to turn it around fast in order for me to give a *SQUEE*.
I’d broadly agree with that, might quibble on a couple but nothing major.
I still haven’t read XO#1 so I’m bracing myself for a big disappointment!