The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Discuss the VALIANT comics, characters, and collecting.
PLEASE DO NOT REVEAL SPOILER INFORMATION IN YOUR TOPIC TITLE.

Moderators: greg, Daniel Jackson

Post Reply
Oxmyx
You gotta have Faith!
You gotta have Faith!
Posts: 826
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:53:37 pm
Valiant fan since: 2013
Favorite character: Blister
Favorite title: Rai and the Future Force
Favorite writer: Jim Shooter
Favorite artist: Barry Wind-Smith
Location: Greensboro, NC, USA
The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by Oxmyx »

This isn't speculation about how the story should have been different or the director choices made.

I'm just asking what might have been without the extensive bad luck of 1) coronavirus and 2) the removal of the scene with Harada

As I understand it, and please PLEASE correct me if I am wrong, as I understand it, the Harada scene was only deleted because DMG sold off the rights to Harbinger (and thus Harada too).

That Harada scene in my opinion would have changed so much the reaction to the movie. My own reaction and that of others. Right now it is a very good "popcorn movie" action movie. It left me very pleased. But as a Bloodshot movie it leaves a lot to be desired. As a Valiant movie it leaves even more. I think. But that Harada scene could have single-handedly fixed that.

It would have also left me much more satisfied with the ending.

So, what do you think?
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

User avatar
darkwingdan
Still afraid of Gamma
Still afraid of Gamma
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:09:59 am
Valiant fan since: 2012
Favorite character: Ninjak
Favorite title: The Valiant
Favorite writer: Matt Kindt
Favorite artist: Tomas Giorello
Contact:
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by darkwingdan »

Honestly, I think the coronavirus outbreak allowed the studio and Valiant to save face, because it was going to bomb at the box office. It took in about $10 million in its opening weekend. If you want to be generous and give it a 3X multiplier, it's only bringing in about $30 million against a $45 million budget. If you want to use international numbers, that's still a potential of $90 million. Not great, especially when you consider marketing costs, and how that box office take is divided between the studio, distributors, and theaters. It's said that a movie usually needs to take in more that 3 times its budget just to break even, so the box office numbers don't work in its favor.

Obviously, there's more nuances involved. Would the domestic and international takes be larger without this pandemic sweeping the globe? Absolutely, but how much? Boxofficepro projected back in January that the movie would open in somewhere between $12-17 million, which is still isn't great (https://www.boxofficepro.com/long-range ... nd-my-spy/). However, because of the pandemic people have been staying in and looking for stuff to do and/or take up their time. The result? Bloodshot has done well in the VOD market, very early on being one of the most rented movies on streaming services (https://www.indiewire.com/2020/03/farew ... 202220714/).

Now, as far as the Harada scene, I'm not sure how much it would change the overall reaction to the movie. For us Valiant fans, it'd be awesome, but also hollow since we know Harbinger is over at Paramount. But for most, it'd look simply like setup for a sequel and nothing more. A lot of the general audience would probably say something around the lines of "Hey, it's that guy from Inception!" As it is, Valiant looks to be writing off Bloodshot as its own thing. In an interview with Deadline, Mintz referred to Bloodshot as Valiant's Blade, and they're still looking to make their Iron Man which will properly kick off a VCU (https://deadline.com/2020/05/valiant-en ... 30886/amp/). Yeah, we don't like the guy, but he's the one in charge so what he says should be a good indication of where they're looking to go with their characters on the big screen.

Oxmyx
You gotta have Faith!
You gotta have Faith!
Posts: 826
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:53:37 pm
Valiant fan since: 2013
Favorite character: Blister
Favorite title: Rai and the Future Force
Favorite writer: Jim Shooter
Favorite artist: Barry Wind-Smith
Location: Greensboro, NC, USA
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by Oxmyx »

darkwingdan wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:12:10 am
... opening weekend....Not great....

Now, as far as the Harada scene, I'm not sure how much it would change the overall reaction to the movie. For us Valiant fans, it'd be awesome, but also hollow since we know Harbinger is over at Paramount. But for most, it'd look simply like setup for a sequel and nothing more.
Thanks for the links. I hadn't seen any of that. Sharing info is a big part of the reason I am on this board.

I think you slightly misunderstood my premise. What if DMG had been smart and NOT sold off the rights to Harbinger. Some results would be Harada scene (from what I understand) and the absence of that hollow feeling you mentioned.

I'm not sure why the general audience turnout was subpar. I liked the movie even with my many complaints. Any thoughts?
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

User avatar
SwiftMann
Personal shoe-shopper for Atom!
Personal shoe-shopper for Atom!
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:09:42 pm
Valiant fan since: 1994
Favorite character: Solar
Favorite title: 90s Shadowman
Location: PA
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by SwiftMann »

I haven't seen Bloodshot (doubt I will) or the cut scene, but to most viewers wouldn't a Harada scene that table sets a Valiant Cinematic Universe really come off as just a rip-off of the Nick Fury end credits scene in Iron Man?
"If you think any of these [older comics/shows/movies] do not carry a political content and is not using the medium of science fiction to explore real-world ideas, than you have not been paying attention." - Dan Abnett, VCR #246

Oxmyx
You gotta have Faith!
You gotta have Faith!
Posts: 826
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:53:37 pm
Valiant fan since: 2013
Favorite character: Blister
Favorite title: Rai and the Future Force
Favorite writer: Jim Shooter
Favorite artist: Barry Wind-Smith
Location: Greensboro, NC, USA
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by Oxmyx »

There was a Nick Fury scene at the end of Iron Man? Great, now he tells me
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

User avatar
darkwingdan
Still afraid of Gamma
Still afraid of Gamma
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:09:59 am
Valiant fan since: 2012
Favorite character: Ninjak
Favorite title: The Valiant
Favorite writer: Matt Kindt
Favorite artist: Tomas Giorello
Contact:
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by darkwingdan »

Oxmyx wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:13:25 pm
darkwingdan wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:12:10 am
... opening weekend....Not great....

Now, as far as the Harada scene, I'm not sure how much it would change the overall reaction to the movie. For us Valiant fans, it'd be awesome, but also hollow since we know Harbinger is over at Paramount. But for most, it'd look simply like setup for a sequel and nothing more.
Thanks for the links. I hadn't seen any of that. Sharing info is a big part of the reason I am on this board.

I think you slightly misunderstood my premise. What if DMG had been smart and NOT sold off the rights to Harbinger. Some results would be Harada scene (from what I understand) and the absence of that hollow feeling you mentioned.

I'm not sure why the general audience turnout was subpar. I liked the movie even with my many complaints. Any thoughts?
I see. In that case, if the rights hadn't been sold off I think there'd be more palpable excitement from Valiant fans that would bleed into the general audience because this movie would be connected to something bigger.

As for why the audience turnout was subpar, it just looked like a general action movie starring Vin Diesel. Even worse, it looked like an action movie from 15 years ago. Today's audiences are embracing comic book aesthetics, and this movie lacked that - especially given the movie's aversion to showing a comic-accurate Bloodshot. If Vin Diesel looked throughout the movie like he does in the poster, it would've captured audience's attention a little more.

User avatar
TheeBaldMoose
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Posts: 2426
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:03:41 pm
Valiant fan since: ECCC April 2016
Favorite character: Bloodshot/Ninjak/Divinity
Favorite title: Divinity/BS Reborn/Britannia
Favorite writer: Kindt/Lemire/Roberts
Favorite artist: All of them, really
Location: Tacoma
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

darkwingdan wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 2:43:14 pm

As for why the audience turnout was subpar, it just looked like a general action movie starring Vin Diesel. Even worse, it looked like an action movie from 15 years ago. Today's audiences are embracing comic book aesthetics, and this movie lacked that - especially given the movie's aversion to showing a comic-accurate Bloodshot. If Vin Diesel looked throughout the movie like he does in the poster, it would've captured audience's attention a little more.

I don't know, but I saw this movie more as a origin story. Remember, it was designed to be the beginning of the 5 part movie, so some type of origin needed to take place. If DMG and Dumb-*SQUEE* Mintz would have held tight, I believe Bloodshots second movie would have been with him all white. I mean, he was still getting drained and reloaded with nanites, and it was the first time anyone had seen him overclock his nanites (turning him white), so you know he was no where close to anything the comic books were at. Evolution has to start from somewhere.

The news of the split came late, after most of the filming already had taken place. There was no way to go back and fix what had already been filmed (Bloodshot not white), it wouldn't have made any sense.

Dan's numbers are obviously correct. but if we are spinning hypotheticals, saying it would have only taken in $30M opening weekend (I think) is a bit under doing it. Would it have broken any records, no. But I think (minus everything Covid) it could have comfortably brought in $55-60M. Remember, there was literally NOTHING coming out that weekend. The economy was rock solid, and people had spending money. I do agree that having any of the spoilers still in wouldn't have created any buzz (minus Valiant fans), it would have made zero impact. It would have (possibly) hyped the second movie, and that's about it.

To continue on that idea though, of the Valiant fans I talked to, there were only a small handful that ventured out to see the movie. For the Seattle pre-release viewing party, I had about 30 Valiant fans on that list, maybe 12 showed (my party was 6). Sure, we can look back (with a little bitterness in our hearts) and say "there's no way it could have cleared $xxxx millions", but there was solid hype. I know Kevin Van Hook was invited to three Comic Cons that weekend, he chose ECCC and one in Las Vegas. I also know his dance card was full! He was doing sketches, and his spots went dry within hours. No Covid, many fans would have seen this movie two times or more, I was slated to see it three times opening weekend (movie theaters closed Sunday in my area).

Fans bring friends and family. If every fan brought 3 people per viewing (spouse and child), I see that total being closer to my numbers vs your numbers.

As for international sales... China loves Vin Diesel, they have for a long time. America may be sick of Vin Diesel, but China can't get enough. Remember all the statistics that were brought forth regarding just how much money is made off of Diesel movies?
Moose

User avatar
syzhang28
Personal shoe-shopper for Atom!
Personal shoe-shopper for Atom!
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:20:02 pm
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by syzhang28 »

I loved the movie and I think if it wasn't for corona we'd be hearing about a sequel. Clearly the pandemic effected the opening weekend. My theater was a ghost town for every movie that friday, was limiting seating to just 50% of the seats on saturday and was closed by Sunday. That is about as bad a situation as you could dream up for a movie to make money.

Also the lack of overseas box office, which is why you cast vin diesel, is killer. just look at these numbers for his last two movies where he was the solo lead:

XXX The return of Xander Cage made 300 million which is 87% of it's money overseas
Last Witcher Hunter made 120 million which is 81.4% of it's money overseas

For me the Harada piece is key because it sets up the whole universe - dont forget they had to cut lots of little bits throughout the movie when they couldn't do Harada at the end like the question scene that teased Harbinger.

User avatar
Juki
Cruisin' in Darpan's Winnebago
Cruisin' in Darpan's Winnebago
Posts: 646
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:45:52 pm
Valiant fan since: 1991
Favorite character: Divinity
Favorite title: Harbinger
Favorite writer: Dysart
Favorite artist: Adam Gorham
Location: Louisiana
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by Juki »

So, is there anyway to know how the movie did in “pay per view” download/streaming service domestic and internationally? Didn’t the Trolls movie make a ton this way?

User avatar
TheeBaldMoose
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Posts: 2426
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:03:41 pm
Valiant fan since: ECCC April 2016
Favorite character: Bloodshot/Ninjak/Divinity
Favorite title: Divinity/BS Reborn/Britannia
Favorite writer: Kindt/Lemire/Roberts
Favorite artist: All of them, really
Location: Tacoma
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

syzhang28 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:48:25 pm


For me the Harada piece is key because it sets up the whole universe - dont forget they had to cut lots of little bits throughout the movie when they couldn't do Harada at the end like the question scene that teased Harbinger.

I agree, there were probably tons of little bits they had to cut out. In the very beginning of the movie, when they are driving along the coast line of Italy, they were in a blue convertible, very much like the one pictured on Harbinger 1. I bet there were probably a few other small bits that would have been extended that they had to trim, like that little drive.
Moose

User avatar
battlepark
Harbinger rank: Aonisaibushi
Harbinger rank: Aonisaibushi
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:42:44 pm
Valiant fan since: 1992
Favorite character: uh...All of them!
Location: Turlock, California
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by battlepark »

I wonder how it would have done if they kept the original release date in February instead of March.
I understand it didn't make much that first weekend, but no movie did that weekend. People were already freaked
out about going to the movies.
I hoard Newsstand Editions facepalm

Oxmyx
You gotta have Faith!
You gotta have Faith!
Posts: 826
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:53:37 pm
Valiant fan since: 2013
Favorite character: Blister
Favorite title: Rai and the Future Force
Favorite writer: Jim Shooter
Favorite artist: Barry Wind-Smith
Location: Greensboro, NC, USA
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by Oxmyx »

TheeBaldMoose wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 6:07:03 pm
darkwingdan wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 2:43:14 pm

...it just looked like a general action movie starring Vin Diesel...

I don't know, but I saw this movie more as a origin story.
I have not heard anyone else talking about this, and it is probably meaningless, but also interesting to me, but Bloodshot first woke up bald in the 90s Rai Zero
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

Oxmyx
You gotta have Faith!
You gotta have Faith!
Posts: 826
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:53:37 pm
Valiant fan since: 2013
Favorite character: Blister
Favorite title: Rai and the Future Force
Favorite writer: Jim Shooter
Favorite artist: Barry Wind-Smith
Location: Greensboro, NC, USA
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by Oxmyx »

darkwingdan wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 2:43:14 pm
Oxmyx wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:13:25 pm
darkwingdan wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:12:10 am
... opening weekend....Not great....

Now, as far as the Harada scene, I'm not sure how much it would change the overall reaction to the movie...
I think you slightly misunderstood my premise...
I see.
I re-read my post and while I said everything I had said it confusingly. I apologise.
I should have said:
What if 1) no virus and 2) no DMG selloff.
Heck if we're going all out hypothetical let's say no DMG period. Let's say Dinesh won the day back then.
I've been looking everywhere for the ultra-rare Turok vs Blister issue. Anybody able to help me out?

User avatar
maraxusofkeld
I was young and silly and only read Marvel books.
I was young and silly and only read Marvel books.
Posts: 3115
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:30:40 am
Valiant fan since: UNITY
Favorite character: Magnus
Favorite title: Magnus
Favorite artist: Bob Layton
Location: Liberated from enemy lines!
Contact:
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by maraxusofkeld »

I think the budget was rather high considering Valiant is not a household name. I think more traditional effects could have been used, and a cheaper up and coming star could have been cast in the main role. I'm not trying to *SQUEE* on the movie, as I do like it, just my thoughts.

User avatar
TheeBaldMoose
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Posts: 2426
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:03:41 pm
Valiant fan since: ECCC April 2016
Favorite character: Bloodshot/Ninjak/Divinity
Favorite title: Divinity/BS Reborn/Britannia
Favorite writer: Kindt/Lemire/Roberts
Favorite artist: All of them, really
Location: Tacoma
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

maraxusofkeld wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 8:37:43 pm
I think the budget was rather high considering Valiant is not a household name. I think more traditional effects could have been used, and a cheaper up and coming star could have been cast in the main role. I'm not trying to *SQUEE* on the movie, as I do like it, just my thoughts.
It's been rumored (and one I believe in) that one of the reasons Vin Diesel was casted was because of his draw in China. He is large there, just look at his box office totals.

Take a look at the below web site, a solid 2-to-1 ratio when acting in a lead roll or ensemble.
https://www.the-numbers.com/person/3988 ... ab=summary

And by movie standards, $45 Million is pretty damn cheap!
Moose

User avatar
Talarius
Harbinger rank: Ichinensei
Harbinger rank: Ichinensei
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 12:40:01 am
Favorite artist: BWS
Re: The Bloodshot movie...what would have happened

Post by Talarius »

@3BMoose, not only is $45 million cheap, but a significant percentage of that had to go solely to Vin Diesel’s paycheck. I remember reading an article about what Disney pays their MCU stars (article came out around the release of A:Endgame) and the point of the article was that Disney is somewhat cheapskate about it; paying their stars $15 million per film, with Robert Downey Jr. being paid far more, but with his star power he could demand it. Think about it; if $15 million is considered “cheap” for an MCU starring role, I would expect Vin Diesel to get roughly that amount in most cases, if not more. He *might* have worked for less for part ownership of the Bloodshot film rights. I could see that happening, but he’s still going to get his payday.

Long story short, this movie was budgeted lean and mean from the get-go. That must have resulted in minimizing the use of CGI on him having the Bloodshot “look” in more scenes. I haven’t seen the movie (yet), but I’d imagine this also put a damper on how many, and/or how elaborate the action scenes would be as well.

The Trolls film wound up being very profitable as an On-Demand video because they didn’t have to share the gross with theater owners, who usually keep 50% of your ticket price. Bloodshot releasing to theaters just as the virus hit is a bit of a disaster, as they were in the theater system and committed to the associated costs. Hopefully they can recoup their outlay on digital. With such a lean budget, it seems like they ought to be able to. It may not have been a billion-dollar blockbuster, but if they at least break even, they can sign in relief. Prospects of any future Bloodshot films seem (very) unlikely at this point, which is too bad.


Post Reply