DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

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DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by DirtbagSailor »

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by DirtbagSailor »

The "Top 10 VH1" (meaning NO VEI books...) for the past 90 days are:

1. Rai (1992) #0 (Matte) - 1st Full Appearance of Bloodshot.

2. Harbinger (1992) #1 (w/coupon) - 1st Appearance of Pete, Faith, Torque, Flamingo, Kris.

3. Eternal Warrior (1992) #4 - 1st Appearance of Bloodshot.

4. X-O Manowar (1992) #1 - 1st Appearance of Aric. Jumped from #5 last month to #4 this month. :thumb:

5. Rai (1992) #0 (Glossy) - 1st Full Appearance of Bloodshot.

6. Bloodshot (1993) #1 - 1st stand-alone Bloodshot title Moved up from #7 last month to #6 this month. :thumb:

7. Solar, Man of the Atom (1991) #10 (1st Printing) - 1st Appearance of Eternal Warrior, Geomancer. Bumped down by Bloodshot #1! Who knew? :atomic:

8. Nintendo Comics System Preview #nn - The 1st Valiant Comic! Highest single issue recorded Valiant sale in 2020! :o

9. Solar, Man of the Atom (1991) #3 - 1st Appearance of Toyo Harada, Harbinger Foundation. Jumped from #10 last month to #9 this month.

10. Harbinger (1992) #0 (Pink Sendaway)- Limited Print Run of 6,500 copies. Bumped down by Solar, Man of the Atom #3. :atomic:

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by Juki »

Enjoyable list DBS. It is always fun to read your comments and see what is rising and falling. It is a little surprising (to me) to see HWIl Brushed Metal 1:250 and Bloodshot Reborn #10 1:50 appearing on the list. There is no doubt that these covers are stunning... and seemed as though they were under appreciated. LaRosa has done such great art, across all characters, for Valiant during his time with the company. It is nice to see some overlooked books getting more attention.

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by nycjadie »

:clap: thanks you!

The HW2 metal cover was, anecdotally, the most difficult for me to obtain in a cost-effective manner, beyond X-O, which is back to going through the roof, it’s the rarest of the ultra-limited covers. I have a few of each. The first one I paid high prices through my LCS. The others I would pick up when they hit $100 or so, which was their bottom. The HW2 never hit that low as far as I’m aware.

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by Juki »

nycjadie wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 9:38:06 pm
:clap: thanks you!

The HW2 metal cover was, anecdotally, the most difficult for me to obtain in a cost-effective manner, beyond X-O, which is back to going through the roof, it’s the rarest of the ultra-limited covers. I have a few of each. The first one I paid high prices through my LCS. The others I would pick up when they hit $100 or so, which was their bottom. The HW2 never hit that low as far as I’m aware.
There is a nice copy with a “Buy It Now” option currently on EBay for $100.00 if you are still picking them up at that price. That would be a very nice buy for somebody. eBay item number:193322603124

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by Juki »

Juki wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:02:26 pm
nycjadie wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 9:38:06 pm
:clap: thanks you!

The HW2 metal cover was, anecdotally, the most difficult for me to obtain in a cost-effective manner, beyond X-O, which is back to going through the roof, it’s the rarest of the ultra-limited covers. I have a few of each. The first one I paid high prices through my LCS. The others I would pick up when they hit $100 or so, which was their bottom. The HW2 never hit that low as far as I’m aware.
There is a nice copy with a “Buy It Now” option currently on EBay for $100.00 if you are still picking them up at that price. That would be a very nice buy for somebody. eBay item number:193322603124
Well...it was sold... someone got a good deal!

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by Ramses818 »

Great list and I love the valiant issues, non incentive... great info!

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by syzhang28 »

Juki wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:47:27 pm
Juki wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:02:26 pm
nycjadie wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 9:38:06 pm
:clap: thanks you!

The HW2 metal cover was, anecdotally, the most difficult for me to obtain in a cost-effective manner, beyond X-O, which is back to going through the roof, it’s the rarest of the ultra-limited covers. I have a few of each. The first one I paid high prices through my LCS. The others I would pick up when they hit $100 or so, which was their bottom. The HW2 never hit that low as far as I’m aware.
There is a nice copy with a “Buy It Now” option currently on EBay for $100.00 if you are still picking them up at that price. That would be a very nice buy for somebody. eBay item number:193322603124
Well...it was sold... someone got a good deal!
Wasn't XO a different ratio than the rest? And orders were down significantly by the time HW2 came out because of DMG right?

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by DirtbagSailor »

X-O was a 1:500.

The others were 1:250.

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by magnus20009 »

DirtbagSailor wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 1:35:17 am
X-O was a 1:500.

The others were 1:250.
My belief is that even though the X-O was 1:500 there are more copies of it than most of the 1:250 books given its sales were so much higher.

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by Juki »

According to ratio numbers based off of Comichron numbers, estimated by Magnus 20009 himself (thank you):

Brushed Metal variant sales ratios (Comichron numbers used):

85 copies = HW2 brushed metal 1:250
89 copies = PSI Lords brushed metal 1:250
95 copies= Ninja-k brushed metal 1:250
108 copies= Bloodshot Salvation brushed metal 1:250 (At this time this is the only one that has an actual known print # of 200)
124 copies= Shadowman brushed metal 1:250
127 copies= X-O Manowar brushed metal (which is the first brushed metal and the only 1:500 ratio)

As we know, the Comichron numbers can only be used to help us “guess” at what might be out there by looking at the few “actual print numbers” that are known. I do think that it is fun to speculate and try to figure it out. According to Comichron #s HW2 should be the rarest. According to Comichron #s X-O should have the highest print run.

But, there are inconsistencies that I have noticed when looking at the Comichron numbers and the “actual known numbers” from the Imperium 1:20 print runs (which we know the actual print numbers from all the 1:20 variants).

Imperium #11 1:20 had the actual lowest print run of 325 copies made (Dino confirmed). But, using the Comichron numbers issues #12-16 1:20s should have had an actual lower number of issues printed. But, they didn’t:

Comichron #s used for ratio print numbers: Actual confirmed print numbers:
Imperium #11 235 (Comichron estimated) ———————325 (Actual confirmed)

Imperium #12 226 ————————————————————— 350

Imperium #13 229 ————————————————————— 350

Imperium #14 220 ————————————————————— 350

Imperium #15 217 ————————————————————— 350

Imperium #16 214 ————————————————————— 400

So, looking at the Comichron numbers above (on the left side)... Imperium 1:20 #16 should have been the rarest (lowest print numbers). But, in actuality, issues #11-#15 all had lower print run numbers. Also, issues #12-16 all should have had lower print #s than issue #11 (which is the rarest).


I speculate that the brushed metal comics were a different beast completely since the metal covers had to be attached by hand to the book. It was a new process that had never been done before. It would be reasonable to assume that it would not be cost effective to have a large print over-run. Since the Comichron estimated numbers for all of the brushed metal covers are between 85 (HW2) and 127 (X-O) I speculate that the real numbers are between 200-250. It would not surprise me at all to learn that each of the brushed metal covers were limited to exactly 200 each.

But, unless someone from Valiant, or someone that used to work for Valiant decides to help us out..... we will never know. All we do know is that Bloodshot Salvation #1 brushed metal has 200 copies (Dino confirmed). The rest is all speculation.... but it is fun to speculate!

Note: Imperium #3 1:20 is actually the 2nd rarest 1:20 variant with 330 copies made (confirmed). But, I cannot seem to find the Comichron print estimate for this book.

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by Ramses818 »

That's some great info!

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

Juki wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:25:03 pm
According to ratio numbers based off of Comichron numbers, estimated by Magnus 20009 himself (thank you):

Brushed Metal variant sales ratios (Comichron numbers used):

85 copies = HW2 brushed metal 1:250
89 copies = PSI Lords brushed metal 1:250
95 copies= Ninja-k brushed metal 1:250
108 copies= Bloodshot Salvation brushed metal 1:250 (At this time this is the only one that has an actual known print # of 200)
124 copies= Shadowman brushed metal 1:250
127 copies= X-O Manowar brushed metal (which is the first brushed metal and the only 1:500 ratio)
Did you mean Shadowman? Psi Lords never had a brushed metal.
Moose

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by magnus20009 »

TheeBaldMoose wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:52:22 am
Juki wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:25:03 pm
According to ratio numbers based off of Comichron numbers, estimated by Magnus 20009 himself (thank you):

Brushed Metal variant sales ratios (Comichron numbers used):

85 copies = HW2 brushed metal 1:250
89 copies = PSI Lords brushed metal 1:250
95 copies= Ninja-k brushed metal 1:250
108 copies= Bloodshot Salvation brushed metal 1:250 (At this time this is the only one that has an actual known print # of 200)
124 copies= Shadowman brushed metal 1:250
127 copies= X-O Manowar brushed metal (which is the first brushed metal and the only 1:500 ratio)
Did you mean Shadowman? Psi Lords never had a brushed metal.
Nope he means PSILords. PSILords has a 1:250 Metal cover. (I have a copy and it is ugly). I suppose to be specific it should say Cosmic Metal not Brushed metal. The Shadowman metal cover is listed as well.

In my summary list I just do the incentive variant ratio. Not the specific type of cover or artist.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=52434&p=1099862&hil ... t#p1099862

One thing that has not been established though is even where we know the print runs is how many books were distributed. Dino mentioned before that after awarding the incentive books and keeping a few spares the rest were destroyed. So even if we know 400 copies of a book were printed and comichron sales would say for example 150 should have been distributed (assuming each store ordered books in whole lot incentive cover ratios which is not that case) we do not know how many books made it out into the wild.

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by Juki »

I referenced all the 1:250 metal covers as “ brushed metal” out of habit since that is how the first couple were described. This may not be technically accurate for all the 1:250 metal covers. Maybe just 1:250 metal covers? I’m really not sure.

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by Juki »

DBS and Magnus20009 have both referenced the possibility of unqualified variant issues being destroyed. I believe Dino mentioned something about this in the past. It all seems a little sketchy and unclear to me. It would be interesting if someone came forth (like the person that destroyed them on a regular basis). ...and was someone actively making sure copies were destroyed?.... or did they just sit around in a stack and then someone took them home? The question, for me, is “did they actually do this on a regular basis for the low print variants?” .....or was it just done when there were huge print over-runs (which would be more likely on regular and 1:10 variants)?

If they did destroy extra copies that only had a print run of 200-400 copies.... of course that makes them much more limited. But, that doesn’t bode well for the collector trying to find these comics. It kinda bothers me a little if it was consistently done (the aspect of not ever knowing how many are really out there). It would seem unlikely that they would keep a record of the number count of each amount of issues that were destroyed. But, who knows?

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by agent_graves »

Ramses818 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 5:09:35 pm
That's some great info!
+1 :thumb:
magnus20009 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:17:05 am
[quote=TheeBaldMoose post_id=<a href="tel:1106455">1106455</a> time=<a href="tel:1590508342">1590508342</a> user_id=15609]
[quote=Juki post_id=<a href="tel:1106430">1106430</a> time=<a href="tel:1590427503">1590427503</a> user_id=15779]
According to ratio numbers based off of Comichron numbers, estimated by Magnus 20009 himself (thank you):

Brushed Metal variant sales ratios (Comichron numbers used):

85 copies = HW2 brushed metal 1:250
89 copies = PSI Lords brushed metal 1:250
95 copies= Ninja-k brushed metal 1:250
108 copies= Bloodshot Salvation brushed metal 1:250 (At this time this is the only one that has an actual known print # of 200)
124 copies= Shadowman brushed metal 1:250
127 copies= X-O Manowar brushed metal (which is the first brushed metal and the only 1:500 ratio)
Did you mean Shadowman? Psi Lords never had a brushed metal.
Nope he means PSILords. PSILords has a 1:250 Metal cover. (I have a copy and it is ugly). I suppose to be specific it should say Cosmic Metal not Brushed metal. The Shadowman metal cover is listed as well.

In my summary list I just do the incentive variant ratio. Not the specific type of cover or artist.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=52434&p=1099862&hil ... t#p1099862

One thing that has not been established though is even where we know the print runs is how many books were distributed. Dino mentioned before that after awarding the incentive books and keeping a few spares the rest were destroyed. So even if we know 400 copies of a book were printed and comichron sales would say for example 150 should have been distributed (assuming each store ordered books in whole lot incentive cover ratios which is not that case) we do not know how many books made it out into the wild.
:lol:
#StayValiant

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by depluto »

Nice work, as usual. I love these lists and the numbers breakdowns.

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

magnus20009 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:17:05 am
TheeBaldMoose wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:52:22 am
Juki wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:25:03 pm
According to ratio numbers based off of Comichron numbers, estimated by Magnus 20009 himself (thank you):

Brushed Metal variant sales ratios (Comichron numbers used):

85 copies = HW2 brushed metal 1:250
89 copies = PSI Lords brushed metal 1:250
95 copies= Ninja-k brushed metal 1:250
108 copies= Bloodshot Salvation brushed metal 1:250 (At this time this is the only one that has an actual known print # of 200)
124 copies= Shadowman brushed metal 1:250
127 copies= X-O Manowar brushed metal (which is the first brushed metal and the only 1:500 ratio)
Did you mean Shadowman? Psi Lords never had a brushed metal.
Nope he means PSILords. PSILords has a 1:250 Metal cover. (I have a copy and it is ugly). I suppose to be specific it should say Cosmic Metal not Brushed metal. The Shadowman metal cover is listed as well.
Yea, the Brushed Metal threw me off. Damn, I didn't realize that those Psi Lord books were that scarce! They are 100% ugly!
Moose

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Re: DBS’s “VEI Top 10” - May 2020

Post by Ramses818 »

[/quote]
Yea, the Brushed Metal threw me off. Damn, I didn't realize that those Psi Lord books were that scarce! They are 100% ugly!
[/quote]

That is why they are so rare! :lol:


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