*Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by Chiclo »

I feel like this is just like that time greg tried to gaslight us and tell us that Sinbad never made a movie where he played a genie.

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by greg »

Chiclo wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:40:14 pm I feel like this is just like that time greg tried to gaslight us and tell us that Sinbad never made a movie where he played a genie.
Sinbad?

No, it was Shaq. Shaq never played a genie. No one is gaslighting you. You're crazy.

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by Chiclo »

greg wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:18:57 pm
Chiclo wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:40:14 pm I feel like this is just like that time greg tried to gaslight us and tell us that Sinbad never made a movie where he played a genie.
Sinbad?

No, it was Shaq. Shaq never played a genie. No one is gaslighting you. You're crazy.
I want to tell you that you are wrong, that there was a movie where Shaq played a genie who lived in an enchanted boom box and made it rain m&ms but this sounds crazy. The studio people wouldn’t be so careless with their money, would they? I feel like there are holes in my story. Shaq made that movie where he played Steel from Superman. And that horrible video game, Shaq Fu. With a CD tie-in?

Either way, Sinbad was a genie and there are thousands of counterfeit Valiants comics.

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by Blood of Heroes »

Sinbad is a genie in real life, but he never played one in a movie.

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by myron »

lorddunlow wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:37:31 pm SHOW US YOUR HOLES, GREG!

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no..No....NO! We don't want that to happen.

It would be worse that this....
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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by Chiclo »

Hips don’t lie.

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by caxiotis »

Chiclo wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:18:44 pm
lorddunlow wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:37:31 pm SHOW US YOUR HOLES, GREG!

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Well actually, the question put forth is for valiantdude to show us greg’s holes.

Because it’s that kind of party.
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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by caxiotis »

Chiclo wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:18:44 pm
lorddunlow wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:37:31 pm SHOW US YOUR HOLES, GREG!

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Well actually, the question put forth is for valiantdude to show us greg’s holes.

Because it’s that kind of party.
No God….NO!!!!!!!!!! (This deserved two posts)
Last edited by caxiotis on Wed May 04, 2022 9:38:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by caxiotis »

Also, are you guys really still talking about this……This kinda ridiculous arguement is so 15 years ago.

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by greg »

caxiotis wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:35:52 pm Also, are you guys really still talking about this……This kinda ridiculous arguement is so 15 years ago.
So, you're saying you heard about "counterfeit Valiant" books 15 years ago? :hm:

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by lorddunlow »

Caxiotis is one of greg's holes!

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by Blood of Heroes »

lorddunlow wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:06:33 pm Caxiotis is one of greg's holes!
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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by Chiclo »

Things are getting a little out of hand here, guys. I mean, links to a Seinfeld thing from someone who I thought was my friend. And we aren’t any closer to finding out about how these bogus books are real.

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by Blood of Heroes »

Chiclo wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 12:44:53 pm Things are getting a little out of hand here, guys. I mean, links to a Seinfeld thing from someone who I thought was my friend. And we aren’t any closer to finding out about how these bogus books are real.
Image

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by JonesyAZ »

Dude! Guys!!!! I just got back from a trip to the past! I woke up yesterday on the set of Seinfeld; it was the episode where Kramer dropped the Junior Mint into that dude’s body! When I looked over at the director in his seat, he was pulling a comic out of the hands of an assistant who was supposed to be bringing the director coffee. The comic was a black and white photocopy of Solar #10! I quickly got my half-asleep butt up and pulled the assistant aside asking “Where did you get that?” He said that a bum was selling counterfeit bootlegged photocopied issues of Solar #10 and other Valiant comics out of his shopping cart for a pack of cigarettes. I couldn’t believe this!!!! When I tried grabbing what appeared to be this freshly photocopied draft-quality high-quality superb official bootlegged counterfeit comic book from the assistant, I instantly warped back to the future…my present! And in my hands…was nothing! But I’m TELLING you…it was real! The counterfeit Valiant comics were REAL!
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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by mrwoogieman »

JonesyAZ wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 8:18:00 am Dude! Guys!!!! I just got back from a trip to the past! I woke up yesterday on the set of Seinfeld; it was the episode where Kramer dropped the Junior Mint into that dude’s body! When I looked over at the director in his seat, he was pulling a comic out of the hands of an assistant who was supposed to be bringing the director coffee. The comic was a black and white photocopy of Solar #10! I quickly got my half-asleep butt up and pulled the assistant aside asking “Where did you get that?” He said that a bum was selling counterfeit bootlegged photocopied issues of Solar #10 and other Valiant comics out of his shopping cart for a pack of cigarettes. I couldn’t believe this!!!! When I tried grabbing what appeared to be this freshly photocopied draft-quality high-quality superb official bootlegged counterfeit comic book from the assistant, I instantly warped back to the future…my present! And in my hands…was nothing! But I’m TELLING you…it was real! The counterfeit Valiant comics were REAL!
Boom - Evidence!

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:hm:

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by Chiclo »

We have enough hearsay and conjecture already. We don’t need to interpret dreams on this one.

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by X-O HoboJoe »

valiantdude wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:15:19 pm the official story has obvious issues
And those issues were being sold illegally out of some Jack-hole’s trunk in 1992, obviously.
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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by markie7235 »

valiantdude wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:32:21 pm greg,
there are holes in your story.
Last year it was all up in the air. Now you are saying im 90% accurate but they are not counterfeit, but somehow stolen over printing or fallen off the back of a truck.
Here are the facts:
people arrested
sold out of a trunk
fred pierce involved
had access to printing press (if the sparta thing is accurate)

You said the blue Solar #1s may be from discoloration, but the OP stated clearly that they knew about the variation in 1992. So clearly before any natural degradation can happen.

Now answer me this:

If someone overprinted comics but did not have access to all of the ink required, would those be counterfeit?

If someone printed comics months after they were sold in stores, but they were still mostly undetectable because they came from the same printing press, would those be counterfeit?

If someone overprinted books during their initial run, and kept maybe 1000 of each book, would those be considered counterfeit?

this is not solved until fred pierce makes a public statement with verifiable facts, fred and jim are roughly the same age, is it even possible fred could be wrong?
Here's the thing...ever heard of a little Marvel book called Werewolf by Night 32? First appearance of Moon Knight?

The night sky in the background on the cover of this book is....blue? Purple? Mixed? Search ebay and you'll notice this particular comic has so much variation in color, from a darker faded blue night sky to a vibrant glossy purple. Not once has anyone claimed one coloration is a counterfeit and the other is legit. No one color variation shows any signs of selling higher than another. I honestly couldn't tell you which exact bluish-purple color the night sky is "supposed to be". I personally prefer the more vibrant glossy purple, which is what the later reprinted fascimile edition color is also.

My point being, in support and agreement with Greg, certain blue and purple shades can and will vary due to the issues Greg laid out. There are numerous non-counterfeit examples in other comic book titles and covers.

If this the crux of claiming counterfeits exist, it's really poor evidence.

If the core claim is Jim Shooter, I wouldn't put a lot of weight on that either. Memory and claims from 30+ years ago are not reliable, and why eye-witness testimony in criminal cases that old are hard to use in court...And Jim wasn't, nor does he even claim to be an eye witness. Other than saying there were counterfeits, Jim offers no first hand knowledge on why such a claim is true. Did someone tell him there were? Did he see them? How did he know and confirm that?

A sting operation isn't proof of counterfeit either. All it provides is that someone was selling probably large quantities of an item they did not obtain legally.

Anyways, I don't know why this keeps getting resurrected. You're gonna believe what you want to believe. There's no new evidence that's been provided at this point in time since the last time it came up except another interview with Jim. That offered nothing new.

I would make one final point...I have seen no news or green label from CGC on a Solar #1 marking it a counterfeit. They exams hundreds of books daily, can tell if there's restoration, and also do grading on collectible cards like Magic the Gathering and other such collectibles now and can identify counterfeits. If the claim Jim makes about all these VH1 counterfeit books in circulation, you don't think one of these would have made it to CGC yet and been identified? The idea that 30 years no one said anything or knew and CGC has never encountered one tells me all I need to know about this story of counterfeit VH1 books made in the 90's....it's BS

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by Chiclo »

I want to believe in these counterfeits but this theory fits many of the points defined as pseudoscience on this même that I found.
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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by grendeljd »

I care nothing about the main subject being discussed in this ridiculously lengthy thread, however I simply cannot let this little slice pass by without comment - it reminds me of the good olde days around here;
lorddunlow wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:56:43 pm Has anyone considered the Canadians?
greg wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:14:09 pm Who do you think closed the World Color branch in Sparta, Illinois?
Chiclo wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:46:51 am They did cross my mind. Today, comics are printed in China. Before that, they were printed in Canada BUT I don't think they shut down the printer in Sparta, IL to ship American jobs to Canada in 1992. I think printing was still in America at that time.
Just for you dunlow - a snip from the Wikipedia entry for World Color. Take note of the details…

Image

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by greg »

grendeljd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:22:49 am Never forget, dunlow - we’re *always* up here, silently taking over the world in secret…
The fact that you guys got the whole world to buy rapeseed oil by calling it "Canola" is all anyone needs to know about your craftiness. :P

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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by lorddunlow »

Damn Canadians...
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Re: *Counterfeit Valiant Update- Midnight, On Earth w/ Jim Shooter Ep 89 - NEW EPISODE

Post by valiantdude »

From the man himself, Jim Shooter



I worked closely with World Color Press for decades. I visited Spartan Printing in Sparta, Illinois many times and other plants as well. Covington Kentucky, for instance. I knew the WCP people and their operations well.

Regarding the counterfeit vs. stolen discussion:

Last time I cited evidence that might support two print runs, basically too much variance between copies for such a short run, and too many copies with the same variation to fit Greg's age-and-weathering theory.

I also offered a possible explanation that could account for such variance in one print run: Possibly, they had to replate in the middle of the run for some strange reason, or possibly, there was a problem with ink flow that caused them to make a mid-run adjustment.

Fred says no counterfeits, and he may be correct. However, I offer these thoughts:

The perpetrators were WCP employees. Therefore they may have had access to copies and the opportunity to steal some. But, I recall no complaints from retailers about anyone's orders being shorted, and I absolutely would have been made aware of that, if it had happened. Furthermore, it seems unlikely that comics could be stolen between the bindery and shipping. I'll explain the process later.

Setting up a press in those ancient, analog days required running off many hundreds, even thousands of copies while making adjustments to optimize print quality. Those set-up copies were thrown away, except for a few 'make-readies." They were hand-trimmed, hand-stapled copies that came off the press after all adjustments had been made and were sent to the publisher to provide an advance look. All the rest of the copies run off during set-up were thrown away. It is entirely possible that trashed copies could be salvaged from the dumpster. If so, they would have had to have been trimmed and bound elsewhere, but almost any printing facility had the equipment. The fact that those copies were run off before the adjustments would account for the color variance.

Another, but less likely possibility is that the perps got their hands on used plates or film and ran off counterfeit -- or at least illegitimate -- copies at some other printing facility. But that would have required re-imposition, I think, because very few places (on Earth) had presses like WCP's very old, big, color, letterpress presses.

Fred knows the most about what occured, but maybe he hasn't considered the above.

It's just freewheeling. I don't know.

P.S. Use the above as you see fit, but make sure people understand that I'm not promoting these wild speculations.




--the mystery continues


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