VALIANT Cinematic Universe

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Man-of-The-Atom
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VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Man-of-The-Atom »

I think that a VALIANT Cinematic Universe should begin with Harbinger because I think that can be the most relatable and grounded start possible.

Once that one is established, then they can introduce immortals, aliens, and barbarians out of time.

Hopefully Paramount will make it work.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...

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Phantom
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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Phantom »

Just feel Valiant is in a rut, so many IP's and not comics.
Bloodshot was a movie I have watched 3 times, but its release at start of covid was just bad luck. Saying that some aspects of the film I did not enjoy, but overall it was a good film.
I want things to be perfect, but they never are. SO making a comic book work it a market that is diminishing must be difficult. Their should of been a big push with comics when Bloodshot was released, I didn't feel they supported the movie with comics.
Making films is money, and you want a return on the money. The Valiant cinematic universe is a numbers game, how much profit, how long to recoup the investment. If it was worth the effort - more films will be made. If they deem risk to high (even with profit) no further films.

Their is mixed info on the internet, as you know I am not great at finding the fact amongst all the information provided. A few sources are stating Bloodshot budget was $45 million, did it cost that much? or more?
Lets go with $45 million.
Total revenue $37.3 million BUT by which date? TV licensing, dvd sales, streaming sales on amazon etc, netflix after this date would ad to the total.
Over time it will break even, pending if the figures above are actually true. Offset loses for investors, but I bet they would of preferred profit.

Covid hit those revenues hard.

Surely their is a thread on all this already, the math behind the film.

Now Valiant comics are comic out sporadically, and with no energy behind it - was it like this with acclaim? cannot remember.

BadIdea, I read but do not follow their marketing, its to much effort.
Relaunch Valiant was annoying with all the variants and mini series, multiple minis! Would rather just a long run of comics, even if creator teams change. But I read them all.

I will continue to read valiant as I like the characters, not all, but I still read it, hoping the sales will promote the other issues.
I want to read the stories, but they are few and far between.
XO has always been my favorite, not a fan of team books - as Harbinger never my thing. But take shadowman for example. I read that from the start, I enjoyed it, preferrred acclaim. Reluanch was good, after Peter Milligan on 13 I actually enjoyed. ANd the newer stuff I love! Punk Mambo Shadowman, I would read all day, but nothing coming out. I would read on any paper quality, newspaper quality.

Shame how the comics are all about cardboard stock and quality of printing. Maybe they could just put out comics?
I wish their was a Spinal Tap comic, and I had a copy CGC graded at 11.

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Man-of-The-Atom
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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Man-of-The-Atom »

Phantom wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 6:07:23 am Bloodshot was a movie I have watched 3 times, but its release at start of covid was just bad luck. Saying that some aspects of the film I did not enjoy, but overall it was a good film.
I've watched it twice. I had the same opinion.

You can see the numbers of how it performed here.

https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Blood ... ab=summary
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Phantom
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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Phantom »

:rant:

didn't even respond to first comment.
A team movie maybe hard without a bigger foundation, how many films came out before avengers?
What team DC movie is their don't even know.

What comic book films stated with team films, is their any? I honestly don't know.
Man of the Atom, just feel a bigger foundation needed. Or expand the universe - within a film, to lead into the wider universe.

Got to go, will be back online latter.
I wish their was a Spinal Tap comic, and I had a copy CGC graded at 11.

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Phantom
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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Phantom »

oh it made a profit with home viewing.
So it was a financial success, my mistake.
I wish their was a Spinal Tap comic, and I had a copy CGC graded at 11.

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Man-of-The-Atom
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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Man-of-The-Atom »

Phantom wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 6:37:05 am :rant:

didn't even respond to first comment.
A team movie maybe hard without a bigger foundation, how many films came out before avengers?
What team DC movie is their don't even know.

What comic book films stated with team films, is their any? I honestly don't know.
Man of the Atom, just feel a bigger foundation needed. Or expand the universe - within a film, to lead into the wider universe.

Got to go, will be back online latter.
Well, Harbinger is a team in the same way X-Men is a team. They don't need to do solo movies before it. It's really just about centering the narrative on a main character, which would be Peter.

X-Men centered it on Logan.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...

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Man-of-The-Atom
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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Man-of-The-Atom »

Phantom wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 6:39:12 am oh it made a profit with home viewing.
So it was a financial success, my mistake.
Under less than desirable circumstances. It could have performed better but for COVID.
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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by betterthanezra »

Budget was below 30 Million for the BS Movie.

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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Phantom »

betterthanezra wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:09:36 pm Budget was below 30 Million for the BS Movie.

-Brian
That's a bit harsh, wasn't that bad :kidaround:


facepalm Xmen facepalm How did I forget that :oops: . Oh well.
I wish their was a Spinal Tap comic, and I had a copy CGC graded at 11.

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Man-of-The-Atom
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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Man-of-The-Atom »

Phantom wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 1:45:07 pm
betterthanezra wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:09:36 pm Budget was below 30 Million for the BS Movie.

-Brian
That's a bit harsh, wasn't that bad :kidaround:
:funnypost: :funnypost:
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Ryan
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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Ryan »

Man-of-The-Atom wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:34:26 am I think that a VALIANT Cinematic Universe should begin with Harbinger because I think that can be the most relatable and grounded start possible.

Once that one is established, then they can introduce immortals, aliens, and barbarians out of time.

Hopefully Paramount will make it work.
I think I would agree with starting with Harbinger. I just read Shooter's original Harbinger movie treatment and it is more grounded in that it goes through the process of Pete discovering his powers.

There aren't a bunch of huge set pieces or elaborate powers fights so it could be filmed as is pretty cheaply. A lot of the story is dealing with non-powered characters. Same goes for the early Harbinger issues, some power fights for sure but most of the drama is character based.

The treatment + Harb 1-7 would also be a great streaming series, that could then branch out into other characters. But I don't see it happening. In a lot of ways that's what VEI was trying to do in comics in 2012.

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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Ryan »

Man-of-The-Atom wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 7:15:11 am
Phantom wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 6:37:05 am :rant:

didn't even respond to first comment.
A team movie maybe hard without a bigger foundation, how many films came out before avengers?
What team DC movie is their don't even know.

What comic book films stated with team films, is their any? I honestly don't know.
Man of the Atom, just feel a bigger foundation needed. Or expand the universe - within a film, to lead into the wider universe.

Got to go, will be back online latter.
Well, Harbinger is a team in the same way X-Men is a team. They don't need to do solo movies before it. It's really just about centering the narrative on a main character, which would be Peter.

X-Men centered it on Logan.
Exactly, Harbinger is really the story of Pete vs. Harada, the team is just his friends who get caught up in it.

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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Man-of-The-Atom »

https://collider.com/renowned-directors ... el-movies/

Which VALIANT movies should these 10 directors that have spoken out against the Marvel Comedic Universe direct?

"Ridley Scott's X-O Manowar"

Though James Cameron is not listed in that article, he has spoken out against the MCU.

I'd definitely give him Rai for sure.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...

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Man-of-The-Atom
Ninjak and Ninjil went up a hill
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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Man-of-The-Atom »

Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:20:46 am I think I would agree with starting with Harbinger. I just read Shooter's original Harbinger movie treatment and it is more grounded in that it goes through the process of Pete discovering his powers.

There aren't a bunch of huge set pieces or elaborate powers fights so it could be filmed as is pretty cheaply. A lot of the story is dealing with non-powered characters. Same goes for the early Harbinger issues, some power fights for sure but most of the drama is character based.

The treatment + Harb 1-7 would also be a great streaming series, that could then branch out into other characters. But I don't see it happening. In a lot of ways that's what VEI was trying to do in comics in 2012.
I've never read that one.

A fun part of a Harbinger movie or series would be watching Faith scrutinize the many ways in which the MCU deviates from the comic books, then note that their lives are more like the X-Men comic books than whatever X-Men movie the MCU might produce.
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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Ryan »

Man-of-The-Atom wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:39:25 am
Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:20:46 am I think I would agree with starting with Harbinger. I just read Shooter's original Harbinger movie treatment and it is more grounded in that it goes through the process of Pete discovering his powers.

There aren't a bunch of huge set pieces or elaborate powers fights so it could be filmed as is pretty cheaply. A lot of the story is dealing with non-powered characters. Same goes for the early Harbinger issues, some power fights for sure but most of the drama is character based.

The treatment + Harb 1-7 would also be a great streaming series, that could then branch out into other characters. But I don't see it happening. In a lot of ways that's what VEI was trying to do in comics in 2012.
I've never read that one.

A fun part of a Harbinger movie or series would be watching Faith scrutinize the many ways in which the MCU deviates from the comic books, then note that their lives are more like the X-Men comic books than whatever X-Men movie the MCU might produce.
http://jimshooter.com/downloads-page/ if you're curious.

Heh, that's why the original Faith was such a brilliant character, a nerd actually living the fantasy and realizing it isn't as fun as in the books. It wasn't about her being overweight or whatever.

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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Ryan »

Man-of-The-Atom wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:38:14 am https://collider.com/renowned-directors ... el-movies/

Which VALIANT movies should these 10 directors that have spoken out against the Marvel Comedic Universe direct?

"Ridley Scott's X-O Manowar"

Though James Cameron is not listed in that article, he has spoken out against the MCU.

I'd definitely give him Rai for sure.
I was dreaming of a James Cameron Turok movie while watching the Avatars. Not exactly VALIANT anymore though.

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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Man-of-The-Atom »

Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:46:30 am http://jimshooter.com/downloads-page/ if you're curious.

Heh, that's why the original Faith was such a brilliant character, a nerd actually living the fantasy and realizing it isn't as fun as in the books. It wasn't about her being overweight or whatever.
Thanks. I'll try to check it out.

Indeed. She was the reader commenting on badly written comic books.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...

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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Man-of-The-Atom »

Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:48:22 am I was dreaming of a James Cameron Turok movie while watching the Avatars. Not exactly VALIANT anymore though.
Interesting. Maybe the director of Prey could do Turok.
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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Ryan »

Man-of-The-Atom wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:31:31 pm Thanks. I'll try to check it out.

Indeed. She was the reader commenting on badly written comic books.
It's a good read. Someday I'd like to ask Jim how much influence Brain Boy and DP7 had on Harbinger. The treatment feels like Jim is pulling a lot from his life as well, with Pete being from a lower middle class Pittsburgh family.

Since we're all discussing the Valiant Cinematic Universe, I'll put my thoughts on the Bloodshot movie. I'll never understand why VEI is so enamored with VH2 Bloodshot. I know it was kind of thought of as one of the bright spots of VH2, but I could never really get through it.

VH1 Bloodshot isn't fine literature by any means, but it's solid action-adventure. I'm not a huge movie guy, but IMO I would try Bloodshot with a lower budget and more understated, try to make a really good action movie instead of trying to make a blockbuster. Get someone like Scott Adkins for Bloodshot and use other martial arts actors, make something that at least action fans will like. Don't make Bloodshot so overpowered, make it smart but not pretentious and hope for a John Wick-like surprise hit and cult following.

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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Man-of-The-Atom »

Ryan wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:55:07 pm It's a good read. Someday I'd like to ask Jim how much influence Brain Boy and DP7 had on Harbinger. The treatment feels like Jim is pulling a lot from his life as well, with Pete being from a lower middle class Pittsburgh family.

Since we're all discussing the Valiant Cinematic Universe, I'll put my thoughts on the Bloodshot movie. I'll never understand why VEI is so enamored with VH2 Bloodshot. I know it was kind of thought of as one of the bright spots of VH2, but I could never really get through it.

VH1 Bloodshot isn't fine literature by any means, but it's solid action-adventure. I'm not a huge movie guy, but IMO I would try Bloodshot with a lower budget and more understated, try to make a really good action movie instead of trying to make a blockbuster. Get someone like Scott Adkins for Bloodshot and use other martial arts actors, make something that at least action fans will like. Don't make Bloodshot so overpowered, make it smart but not pretentious and hope for a John Wick-like surprise hit and cult following.
I enjoyed the movie more the second time I watched it than the first, but yeah. I'd rather they stuck to the original Angelo Mortalli version.

Just look at Tulsa King. It has the mafia and a lot of action.

I like the idea of the Italian mafia and Japanese Yakuza going to war, with the latter turning the former into a weapon for their side using nanotechnology.
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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Ryan »

Man-of-The-Atom wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:38:56 am I enjoyed the movie more the second time I watched it than the first, but yeah. I'd rather they stuck to the original Angelo Mortalli version.

Just look at Tulsa King. It has the mafia and a lot of action.

I like the idea of the Italian mafia and Japanese Yakuza going to war, with the latter turning the former into a weapon for their side using nanotechnology.
Yeah, I need to watch it again. Hard to believe it's been 3 years, hah!

I'll check out Tulsa King. Action movies don't have to reinvent the wheel, just embrace what they are and try to do that well. John Wick is a super simple plot that's been done a million times but they executed it well and with obvious love for the action genre, and now they have a cinematic universe out of nothing.

There's enough good material from the first 20 issues of BS to make a really good action movie. Sprinkle in the sci-fi elements and VALIANT lore. Bring him back to when he was just a fast martial artist with a healing factor, enough with the mutilation and regeneration they constantly do, it makes him too invincible. Ok my old fan rant quota for the day is fulfilled :lol:

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Re: VALIANT Cinematic Universe

Post by Man-of-The-Atom »

Ryan wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:29:06 am Yeah, I need to watch it again. Hard to believe it's been 3 years, hah!

I'll check out Tulsa King. Action movies don't have to reinvent the wheel, just embrace what they are and try to do that well. John Wick is a super simple plot that's been done a million times but they executed it well and with obvious love for the action genre, and now they have a cinematic universe out of nothing.

There's enough good material from the first 20 issues of BS to make a really good action movie. Sprinkle in the sci-fi elements and VALIANT lore. Bring him back to when he was just a fast martial artist with a healing factor, enough with the mutilation and regeneration they constantly do, it makes him too invincible. Ok my old fan rant quota for the day is fulfilled :lol:
Bloodshot with a world building akin to John Wick would be fantastic.
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