Wizard World Chicago CGC Onsite Disaster

[IMJ]

As I noted here, I brought some submissions to WW Chicago for CGC to grade, including my previously graded and unpressed CGC 4.0 Tales of Suspense #39, pictured here.....

PREVIOUS SUBMISSIONS


This is the book I got back after letting CGC crack their own case, allegedly press, and then reslab the book:
WHAT I GOT BACK


They now have my TOS 39 at their offices for a review of the notes. I don't even think they pressed it. Bare minimum this book should've come back a cleaner looking 4.0 to 4.5, and at a rare, rare best a 5.0. I'll just wait patiently and we will see what happens.

The rest of my subs came back as well with some decent results, and one other disappointment....
SILVER AGE
TOS 39 (1st Iron Man)
An absolute disaster in the making and has nearly ruined my faith in CGC - I don't even think that they pressed my book. This isn't my final say on this though as I will wait out the review and return of my TOS 39.

Daredevil #1 (1st Daredevil)
Some of you might remember that this was previously a PGX 7.5 copy. I had it removed, allegedly pressed and regraded. There's a lot of reasons that I'm understanding of this grade, I'm sure most of you know them all too. I am wondering if they actually pressed it though.

Journey Into Mystery #85 (1st Loki)
I submitted this book raw. It is part of my "bring on the bad guys" collecting effort. I don't have any disappointments on this one, and it will make a decent sale at some point to someone who wants a solid copy of this book with standard flaws for it's age.


DC Comics Presents #27 (1st Mongul)
This sub was a raw also part of my BOTB collection. I had two copies of this and thought with a pressing that it might land in the 9.2 area, and would've been worth while, but this one was simply a waste of money and time. I just grabbed this one for an extra sub though and didn't really prep work it, so I could've been more discerning.

Superman Annual #11 (key Alan Moore story)
If my TOS 39 debacle wasn't such a cluster, then this would've been my biggest disappointment. I got this one graded purely for my enjoyment and was really shooting for a 9.8 submission. This book is notoriously hard to find on the market in 9.8, and I truly felt that this one had a shot. I prepped it, examined it and had it pressed. Again, I'm not sure if they actually pressed it because there's a finger ding flaw on the back cover that sort of very lightly dents the book, and most likely is what kept it from being a 9.8. It's absolutely something that should've been pressed out. Now my hopeful 9.8 copy of Superman Annual #11 is just another 9.6 in the census.


Batman Adventures #12 (1st Harley Quinn)
This is about what I expected here. This will make a great inroad for a big Batman or Harley fan to own this book....

Incredible Hulk #181 (1st Wolverine)
This is also about what I expected here, and this is another one that will wind up in my eBay store once I finish the setup.

[iggy101us]

Ugh on the TOS 39. I cannot make out the original pic that well, but did the pages go from off-white/white to off-white as well?

[IMJ]

Ugh on the TOS 39. I cannot make out the original pic that well, but did the pages go from off-white/white to off-white as well?

Yup. So much for a few years with microchamber paper, huh? Thoughts on how this is going to go? I havent brought this to the Iron Man or cgc communities yet.... I am trying to be discreet until it is resolved.

[nycjadie]

So sorry to read about the #39. That truly is a disaster. Perhaps the pressing was tough on the spine? I've heard that pressing can cause spine splits, even at CCS. Some solid books though, I have to say!

[Intrepidxc]

Oh man this sucks. I'm sorry you had so many issues.

I personally think CGC/CBCS shouldn't do any on site grading. I know it would cost them a lot of income, but most of the issues I hear about CGC inconsistency and issues like these are due to on site grading.

If CGC isn't careful they are going to drive people right out of the grading market, or at a minimum to their competitor.

[Elveen]

It seems the more I think about cgc ing books, the more I see reasons not to.

[Ricomortis]

We hear lots of concerns....

But I highly recommend it! JS

Rico

[IMJ]

We hear lots of concerns....

But I highly recommend it! JS

Rico

This is a strange post given the circumstances of the thread and the book in question.....

[nycjadie]

It seems the more I think about cgc ing books, the more I see reasons not to.

It's a PITA, but when you sell $. 50 books for $50+, the financials change that perspective. Granted, a lot goes into that $. 50 book!

[nonplayer]

I have a feeling the grade bar went up some time ago. I've seen comics in store I'm astounded they got the grading they got.

[IMJ]

I have a feeling the grade bar went up some time ago. I've seen comics in store I'm astounded they got the grading they got.

Irrelevant in this case... the baseline was set once CGCs expertise assigned the original 4.0 grade. If pressing was an issue for this one, then they shouldve advised me on that. But again, I havent heard from them yet, so the final word isnt out. I honestly think that in the chaos of the onsite work, they probably didnt press the book and when it was re-graded, the grader was in the 4.0 ball park and landed on 3.5. Its inexcusable, but again, we will see.

I will say though that between this and the found flaw as described regarding the Superman Annual 11, Im truly wondering if I paid for pressing but didnt receive it on any of the books....

[nonplayer]

It seems the more I think about cgc ing books, the more I see reasons not to.

It's a PITA, but when you sell $. 50 books for $50+, the financials change that perspective. Granted, a lot goes into that $. 50 book!

Exactly what I don't like it's people inventing a market and turning a personal profit. I see a point for cgc and that is to guarantee a specific grade for worth wile comic. And to protect said comic in a archival format. But it's gotten out of hand people cgcing everything just to make money. And it's a two way Street, the fool is willing to buy a 0.50 comic for 50.00
Each to their own but it's not worth it to me to cgc alot.

[Intrepidxc]

It seems the more I think about cgc ing books, the more I see reasons not to.

It's a PITA, but when you sell $. 50 books for $50+, the financials change that perspective. Granted, a lot goes into that $. 50 book!

Exactly what I don't like it's people inventing a market and turning a personal profit. I see a point for cgc and that is to guarantee a specific grade for worth wile comic. And to protect said comic in a archival format. But it's gotten out of hand people cgcing everything just to make money. And it's a two way Street, the fool is willing to buy a 0.50 comic for 50.00
Each to their own but it's not worth it to me to cgc alot.

I agree here. I generally only CGC books that have value or sentimental value for me. A lot of the grading is getting known grade in a format that is fairly protective of the book. If there were cases similar to CGC cases that I could put my raw books into without grading I'd buy some to protect those books that have sentimental value.

There used to be cases like I'm describing. In fact back in the 90s when I bought my first copy of Solar 10 it went into one.

[nycjadie]

I think the comic hobby is largely about value and profit, right after stories and art. The fact that you can guarantee as best as possible that you are getting the best book possible (i.e. The modern 9.8s) , you are providing value to a sector that wants that. I don't see that as bad and it doesn't affect other collectors too much.

[TheeBaldMoose]

Hmm, I am heading to a Portland for a Con, where I plan on doing much the same. I am going to crack a 9.2 that has never been pressed, have it signed, then have CGC send it to get pressed (CCS), then back to CGC for grading. I've been in communication with their help desk/hot line via email, and they assured me that it can be done this way.

Guess I am going to track the crap out of this to ensure my money is being used for what it's supposed to be used for.

[Intrepidxc]

Hmm, I am heading to a Portland for a Con, where I plan on doing much the same. I am going to crack a 9.2 that has never been pressed, have it signed, then have CGC send it to get pressed (CCS), then back to CGC for grading. I've been in communication with their help desk/hot line via email, and they assured me that it can be done this way.

Guess I am going to track the crap out of this to ensure my money is being used for what it's supposed to be used for.

Is this the ninja 1 1:60? Either way good luck. I used CCS to press my secrets of the valiant universe 1 wizard variant before sending to CGC. I ended up with a 9.6 and the pressing removed several large non color breaking creases.

[TheeBaldMoose]

Hmm, I am heading to a Portland for a Con, where I plan on doing much the same. I am going to crack a 9.2 that has never been pressed, have it signed, then have CGC send it to get pressed (CCS), then back to CGC for grading. I've been in communication with their help desk/hot line via email, and they assured me that it can be done this way.

Guess I am going to track the crap out of this to ensure my money is being used for what it's supposed to be used for.

Is this the ninja 1 1:60? Either way good luck. I used CCS to press my secrets of the valiant universe 1 wizard variant before sending to CGC. I ended up with a 9.6 and the pressing removed several large non color breaking creases.

[IMJ]

It seems the more I think about cgc ing books, the more I see reasons not to.

It's a PITA, but when you sell $. 50 books for $50+, the financials change that perspective. Granted, a lot goes into that $. 50 book!

Exactly what I don't like it's people inventing a market and turning a personal profit. I see a point for cgc and that is to guarantee a specific grade for worth wile comic. And to protect said comic in a archival format. But it's gotten out of hand people cgcing everything just to make money. And it's a two way Street, the fool is willing to buy a 0.50 comic for 50.00
Each to their own but it's not worth it to me to cgc alot.

I agree here. I generally only CGC books that have value or sentimental value for me. A lot of the grading is getting known grade in a format that is fairly protective of the book. If there were cases similar to CGC cases that I could put my raw books into without grading I'd buy some to protect those books that have sentimental value.

There used to be cases like I'm describing. In fact back in the 90s when I bought my first copy of Solar 10 it went into one.

There are amazing cases just like this on the market - they are called Mill Case. I have quite a few unslabbed Silver Age Iron Man books in them....

[nycjadie]

I've had good experience with CCS, including some books that have never been bagged or boarded coming out with great grades. That being said, I've seen pressing also damage books. It's not a full proof way to increase grade. DBS had some Harby 1s damaged in pressing. It definitely happens. I've experimented with pressing for fun and curiosity, and I feel like it's more art than science (although, there is a lot of science).

[Intrepidxc]

It seems the more I think about cgc ing books, the more I see reasons not to.

It's a PITA, but when you sell $. 50 books for $50+, the financials change that perspective. Granted, a lot goes into that $. 50 book!

Exactly what I don't like it's people inventing a market and turning a personal profit. I see a point for cgc and that is to guarantee a specific grade for worth wile comic. And to protect said comic in a archival format. But it's gotten out of hand people cgcing everything just to make money. And it's a two way Street, the fool is willing to buy a 0.50 comic for 50.00
Each to their own but it's not worth it to me to cgc alot.

I agree here. I generally only CGC books that have value or sentimental value for me. A lot of the grading is getting known grade in a format that is fairly protective of the book. If there were cases similar to CGC cases that I could put my raw books into without grading I'd buy some to protect those books that have sentimental value.

There used to be cases like I'm describing. In fact back in the 90s when I bought my first copy of Solar 10 it went into one.

There are amazing cases just like this on the market - they are called Mill Case. I have quite a few unslabbed Silver Age Iron Man books in them....

They are hugely expensive and I've heard you can easily damage the books because of the way they sit in the cases. What are your thoughts about using them? How much protection do they offer? The case i have from the 90s loos almost exactly like a CGC case sans label.

[IMJ]

It seems the more I think about cgc ing books, the more I see reasons not to.

It's a PITA, but when you sell $. 50 books for $50+, the financials change that perspective. Granted, a lot goes into that $. 50 book!

Exactly what I don't like it's people inventing a market and turning a personal profit. I see a point for cgc and that is to guarantee a specific grade for worth wile comic. And to protect said comic in a archival format. But it's gotten out of hand people cgcing everything just to make money. And it's a two way Street, the fool is willing to buy a 0.50 comic for 50.00
Each to their own but it's not worth it to me to cgc alot.

I agree here. I generally only CGC books that have value or sentimental value for me. A lot of the grading is getting known grade in a format that is fairly protective of the book. If there were cases similar to CGC cases that I could put my raw books into without grading I'd buy some to protect those books that have sentimental value.

There used to be cases like I'm describing. In fact back in the 90s when I bought my first copy of Solar 10 it went into one.

There are amazing cases just like this on the market - they are called Mill Case. I have quite a few unslabbed Silver Age Iron Man books in them....

They are hugely expensive and I've heard you can easily damage the books because of the way they sit in the cases. What are your thoughts about using them? How much protection do they offer? The case i have from the 90s loos almost exactly like a CGC case sans label.

I love my mill cases... interestingly enough sort of for one of the reasons that you've mentioned as a detriment. For example, these cases are manufactured square, and so they then become a great guideline for upfront evaluation of a books grade. If a book doesn't fit in one as it should, then your book might not be in the grade you were hoping to preserve it as. If you have the right books for them, then they are terrific. Also, they seal nicely enough that I've taken to labeling mine and using microchamber paper in them as well. Hence, a hard, safe case that allows you to get to your books. I highly recommend them, but be aware that they accept square books perfectly and books with off square spines not so much.

[IMJ]

They are hugely expensive and I've heard you can easily damage the books because of the way they sit in the cases. What are your thoughts about using them? How much protection do they offer? The case i have from the 90s loos almost exactly like a CGC case sans label.

I love my mill cases... interestingly enough, one of the reasons for that is something that you brought up as a detriment. For example, these cases are manufactured square, and so they then become a great guideline for upfront evaluation of a book's grade. If a book doesn't fit in one as it should, then your book might not be in the grade you were hoping to preserve it as. If you have the right books for them, then they are terrific. Also, they seal nicely enough that I've taken to labeling mine and using microchamber paper in them as well. Hence, a hard, safe case that allows you to get to your books. I highly recommend them, but be aware that they accept square books perfectly and books with off square spines not so much.

REGARDING my CGC problem, I emailed them on August 21st and received a reply today from one of the CGC employees who was at the convention stating "Just writing to let you know I received your email. I have not been able to look into this yet but I might have a chance before the weekend. I will be in touch as soon as I have more information."

[Intrepidxc]

They are hugely expensive and I've heard you can easily damage the books because of the way they sit in the cases. What are your thoughts about using them? How much protection do they offer? The case i have from the 90s loos almost exactly like a CGC case sans label.

I love my mill cases... interestingly enough, one of the reasons for that is something that you brought up as a detriment. For example, these cases are manufactured square, and so they then become a great guideline for upfront evaluation of a book's grade. If a book doesn't fit in one as it should, then your book might not be in the grade you were hoping to preserve it as. If you have the right books for them, then they are terrific. Also, they seal nicely enough that I've taken to labeling mine and using microchamber paper in them as well. Hence, a hard, safe case that allows you to get to your books. I highly recommend them, but be aware that they accept square books perfectly and books with off square spines not so much.

REGARDING my CGC problem, I emailed them on August 21st and received a reply today from one of the CGC employees who was at the convention stating "Just writing to let you know I received your email. I have not been able to look into this yet but I might have a chance before the weekend. I will be in touch as soon as I have more information."

Hmm..I'd like to try some out, but I don't see the option to buy a few. Looks like everything is 50 at $300 for modern or 12 for $240 for GA/SA. Is there anywhere I can get one to evaluate?

[nycjadie]

Just got back results for my last 2 pending submissions with CGC. Interesting. Each one was 30 books submitted for 9.6 prescreen of VEI books.

26/30 22 in 9.8, 4 in 9.6. Not too shabby considering that most of these are variants and VEI books are tough.

11/30 5 in 9.8, 6 in 9.6. This is my worst submission to date, especially considering that some of these are the Divinity prestige style books, which I've only received one 9.6 from, and 0 rejects.

I don't understand this result. The books were submitted at the same time, with the same trained eye. They were deemed to be in the same condition. Unless the latter set was corner dinged in one go (which I guess is certainly possible), I have no idea why this was so poor. Only 5 9.8s!

Perhaps it is a reaction of some sort. Or perhaps the initial grader set the bar too high on the presecreen? No idea. I do know I will be *SQUEE* if those unslabbed books come back to me damaged in some way.

[IMJ]

Hmm..I'd like to try some out, but I don't see the option to buy a few. Looks like everything is 50 at $300 for modern or 12 for $240 for GA/SA. Is there anywhere I can get one to evaluate?

Umm... wtf? Oh wow, something has happened here. I remember buying packs of maybe 5 or 6 for maybe 20 bucks..... Resembling these packs. It's been a few years since I bought any - I can't believe what's happened with the price.