Imperium #1 1:40 Braithwaite cover CGC 9.6 questions...

[hawkboy71]

So I've got a Imperium #1 1:40 Braithwaite cover CGC 9.6 (As you may have guessed from the subject...) coming my way. It's my first time CGCing a comic (I did 4 other comics as well). I'm torn on whether to keep or sell. I know it's very rare, I also know there aren't many sold to get an idea what it generally goes for. I was not shocked it came back 9.6 but I was hoping for a 9.8 obviously but there were no grader notes explaining why the 9.6. If I did sell what are your thoughts on price? Should I try and sell on the board? Or Ebay? Or should I sit on this one? Yes I'm rambling... so in short general thoughts on this issue in this grade?

Thanks guys!!
- Gregg

[Summydad1]

It is a great cover. I have said many times in the past that it is my favorite VEI cover. If you sell it, I would say try to sell it here on the forum first. It's always good to keep these rare variants in the VF family. You can check the sold listings on eBay to get an idea for price. Unfortunately, having a 9.6 drastically decreases value versus a 9.8 with this book.

[hawkboy71]

Thanks for the response! I did check the eBay history and there are only 4 sales total and the one 9.6 price is more than 10 times lower than the 9.8 price. That seems like too big of a disparity to me to determine proper value. From what I can tell not many have sold on this board either. I'm not fixated on selling but I'm more fascinated with how value is determined with rare books like these! I'm having some fun going through the histories of sales. And you're right it's an amazing cover. It's been very Interestsing going through the CGC process with this and my few other books I sent in.


I'm more of a old school Valiant fan but this new stuff is really really good!

[DirtbagSailor]

So here is the issue.

Imperium was 120% awesome, and very few Valiant fans will dispute this.

The Braithwaite 1:40 is one of the most desired variants for the series (outside of perhaps another that I will name at a later date...). Right now there are not enough 9.8’s to satisfy the collector demand; however, the expected market price is above that which many collectors can justify — yet, not so much that all hope is lost. Given the time, well, those 9.8s will indeed be purchased at the current market prices.

This leaves the raw copies and the 9.6s. Right now, the expected market price for a 9.6 is low. This is because collectors have “hope” based on a realistic chance to perhaps acquire a 9.8 that is only slightly above their purchasing comfort level.

In time, IF the number of Valiant collectors increase — AND that increase includes interest in Imperium, then the number of submissions for the Braithwaite 1:40 will spike during the first 6-12 months of the increased interest, which will yield an increased (but also limited) number of NEW 9.8s and 9.6s.

Those 9.8s will be sold (prices will vary...) and IF the supply dries up, and “hope” for a 9.8 is lost, then the demand and perceived market value for 9.6s will increase.

However, this is not an overnight process, and may take several years; if it plays out this way at all.

NOTE: You can always look at eBay trends for similar 9.6 / 9.4 sales of other HTF modern VEI slabs. Those can (and do) sometimes indicate hot or cold.

[hawkboy71]

So DirtbagSailor (I feel bad calling you that...) How much of this is boils down to just buying the number on the plastic? And I'm not slamming CGC here I'm just curious as to the odds of a 9.6 ever being seen as any different than a 9.8 to the naked eye in raw form to non pro graders. I mean could one send a 9.6 back in to CGC and potentially get it back as a 9.8? Or are they really good at what they do. I don't expect you to have the answers I'm just curious as to how you feel about that. Sorry if I'm being to newbish about the process. I really do find the whole thing interesting.

[DirtbagSailor]

So DirtbagSailor (I feel bad calling you that...) How much of this is boils down to just buying the number on the plastic? And I'm not slamming CGC here I'm just curious as to the odds of a 9.6 ever being seen as any different than a 9.8 to the naked eye in raw form to non pro graders. I mean could one send a 9.6 back in to CGC and potentially get it back as a 9.8? Or are they really good at what they do. I don't expect you to have the answers I'm just curious as to how you feel about that. Sorry if I'm being to newbish about the process. I really do find the whole thing interesting.

Just call me DBS.

It can boil down to buying the number on the plastic in certain cases; however, in MOST cases, the number on the case does match the book encased.

I have re-submitted several 9.6s -- and received 9.6s in return (usually this has been the case).

I have re-submitted a 9.6 and received a 9.8.

I have re-submitted a 9.8 (for signature) and received a 9.4 a few times.

I have NEVER submitted anything under a 9.6 and received a 9.8.

I have NEVER submitted a 9.8 and received anything under a 9.4.

There is a "human element" to grading, and historical trend analysis of grades provided by CGC had demonstrated that certain years appeared MUCH more loose in grading than other years (Greg has posted on this several times). Many of the 9.6s today might have been 9.8s just a few short years ago, which on one hand can be frustrating (for those submitting), while on the other hand this can (and does) significantly increase the value of 9.8s as they become more difficult to obtain. I have run into this issue recently with my efforts to complete my CGC 9.8 V1 Harbinger collection where I have received a number of 9.6s that (based on my previous submitting experience) would have graded 9.8 not long ago. That said, when I DO obtain a 9.8 these days, I feel as if it is more accurate than 6-7 years ago.

[TheeBaldMoose]

I have NEVER submitted anything under a 9.6 and received a 9.8.

I just had this happen to me. Had been on the hunt for a Shadowman #5 1:125, just to have signed, found a 9.4 that was slabbed several years ago (before pressing). I had Justin Jordan sign it, then sent it in for pressing/cleaning and it recently popped at a 9.8. Before I purchased the book (ebay), I found it to present remarkably well. After the book was cracked, I had a solid feeling that it would come back at a 9.6, but I never expected a 9.8.

It can happen, with the proper research and an S-ton of luck, I guess is all I am saying.

Hawkboy, hold that book and cherish it! I have mine (9.6), and I am a signature hunter. One day, I will meet Dysart, and that will be one book I have him sign. I will have it reslabbed with the idea that even with pressing, chances are that it will still come back as a 9.6, and I am ok with that. Right now, I have zero Dysart sigs, so that has to change!

I guess what I am trying to say is that a 9.6 has so many uses, fewer fears than cracking a 9.8. Everything DBS stated above is on point, there will be a rising of cost, especially if the book becomes hunted/desired.

[greg]

Just adding to the discussion, I had a CGC 9.6 of a four-figure modern book (not Valiant) that had so many spine ticks I wasn't comfortable calling it 9.2. I sold it on ComicLink.com within a year of owning it.

[hawkboy71]

Great conversation guys!!!
By the way this came in today!!!!!

[mkb28]

Congrats!

[Summydad1]

It's a beauty and seems to be well centered in the slab. Keep it. I was always an original VALIANT fan but I started collecting the more rare modern variants about 2 years ago. It's a long road and can get expensive but it is worth it to me. Good luck

[hawkboy71]

I'm a classic Valiant guy too. This was a one off. I have dabbled reading some of the new Valiant and its pretty good!
I have no idea what I'm gonna do with this Imperium #1... it does look beautiful. But I will tell you, I can't for the life of me see why it's a 9.6 and not a 9.8!
I also got back a 9.4 Harbinger #1, a 9.2 Harbinger #0, and a 9.0 Weird War Tales #64 (I threw it in on a lark and was shocked that it came back as high as it did). An interesting experience.

[markie7235]

You could always try having it pressed and re-slabbed, but as others have stated, there's obvious risks to that. Part of it would be to review or obtain the grading notes to see if there's any indication as to why the grade of 9.6. Look for any wear to the spine also for ticks, etc that break color (though typically that would bring it below a 9.6).

IMO, I rarely have seen a 9.6 where pressing would help, and many of these come down to opinion of grader. If there's obvious defects and it got a 9.6, then I'd say it got a great grade. If there are no obvious issues, then I feel some of these are often nit-picky and could have just as easily scored a 9.8 with a different grader. And thus the game of random grader.

I honestly have started looking less at the number and more at the presentability of the book. For example, I have 2 SMoftA #10 first prints CGC graded. One is a 9.2 with two signatures on it, the other is an 8.5. The funny thing is the 8.5 actually looks better in slab and is a cleaner copy. In fact, the ONLY reason it got an 8.5 was a small amount of rust on the staples. Very disappointing, because I've seen 9.8 graded copies, and this 8.5 cover I have is as nice or nicer than the 9.8's I've seen....Damn you rusty staples!!!!

The key is why did you have it graded in the first place. If it was to flip and make a profit, that 9.6 vs 9.8 is always heart breaking. If it was to protect a cherished book that you want in your collection to display, then worry less about the number and more about how it presents in the slab. Best advice I can offer, because chasing raw books to grade and get 9.8 can become frustrating and more expensive than just buying a 9.8 copy up front.