Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Service

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mkb28
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Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Service

Post by mkb28 »

Hello Everyone:

I just wanted to share my recent experience with the CBCS Verified Signature Program. A couple of years ago, Aram gave me a copy of Batman #500 that had three signatures on the front cover. Aram told me that he did not know the history of the signatures. I always thought it would be a cool book to have graded and the book itself appeared to be high grade. I sent the book to CGC to use the VSP service to verify the signatures of Denny O'Neil, Jim Aparo, and Joe Quesada. On the submission form, there is a small box to check to tell CBCS to grade the book even if they cannot verify the signature(s), which I checked. I thought either way, this would be a cool book to have a graded copy.

My mistake was checking the box to have it graded because CBCS told me that none of the three signatures could be verified. They went ahead and graded the book as a 5.5 copy and the Grader Notes said "Marker on the front Cover." I paid $80.00 plus shipping and handling for this service. :!: I sent an email to CBCS and it took two attempts before they ever responded to my questions. They said marker on the front cover will significantly reduce the grade of the book. I still find it hard to believe that none of the signatures are authentic.

I guess the lesson to learn from all of this is to make sure you understand your book will take a grade hit if the signature(s) cannot be verified. Here are a couple of the pictures of the book, which is my worst submission grade. facepalm

Image

Image

Here is the second mistake that I made with CBCS. As a new CBCS member, I received two 2 Day Modern grading coupons, which are valued at $36 each, plus three Fast Pass coupons, valued at $9 each. The Fast Pass cuts your submission time in half.

I submitted my two copies of LADOTH #1 Glass Variant on the same submission form as the Batman #500 VSP book. I used the two 2 Day Modern grading coupons on the glass variants and I used one of the three Fast Pass coupons on the VSP book. My books still took nearly 2 months to be graded and shipped. CBCS said I should have placed the order on two different submissions If I wanted the glass variants done in 2 business days. I learned that your books ship with the slowest book on your submission form. Therefore, I wasted $72 in coupons that were never utilized. :!:

Michael
Mkb28
Last edited by mkb28 on Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:20:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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nycjadie
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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by nycjadie »

Hmmm. That is pretty *SQUEE*. I have CGC books, for example VVSS, that are 9.8s and have “marker on the cover.” It’s a green label, but still a 9.8, regardless whether CGC authenticated it or not. I have a COA or my own provenance for that. Really sorry, man. What a poor customer experience. And here I was thinking about sending my next batch to them. Thought it might be fun to get a pre-Unity set by both grading companies.

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by mkb28 »

nycjadie wrote:Hmmm. That is pretty *SQUEE*. I have CGC books, for example VVSS, that are 9.8s and have “marker on the cover.” It’s a green label, but still a 9.8, regardless whether CGC authenticated it or not. I have a COA or my own provenance for that. Really sorry, man. What a poor customer experience. And here I was thinking about sending my next batch to them. Thought it might be fun to get a pre-Unity set by both grading companies.
Yeah, it was a really poor customer experience overall. See my updated post above regarding my second mistake. :!:

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by ckb »

Man that really stinks. I would think it would be worth a phone call by CBCS when you get a book like that which you are going to stick someone with a 5.5. I guess CBCS does not do qualified? That must be the reason, CGC would do the same thing if forced to give a universal grade to a signed book. I assume if they verify the signatures THEN they do qualified?

On the signatures, I think they might be correct. The Quesada just doesn't look right. It doesn't mean it's forged, it just means it's not like any I have seen.

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by mkb28 »

ckb wrote:Man that really stinks. I would think it would be worth a phone call by CBCS when you get a book like that which you are going to stick someone with a 5.5. I guess CBCS does not do qualified? That must be the reason, CGC would do the same thing if forced to give a universal grade to a signed book. I assume if they verify the signatures THEN they do qualified?

On the signatures, I think they might be correct. The Quesada just doesn't look right. It doesn't mean it's forged, it just means it's not like any I have seen.
Thanks for your input, CKB. :thumb: For now I hide the book in my closet because it makes me mad to look at it. :!:

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by magnus20009 »

I am sorry to hear about your ordeal, but honestly not surprised. I have just heard too many bad stories about CBCS. When they first came out I had high hopes for them and thought they would provide some good competition for CGC, especially with Steve being there. I almost completely avoid them.

I only have 2 CBCS in my collection (the Bloodshot and Harada glass books) and only want more (Livewire and Fallen World glass books) and that is only because CGC will not grade the glass books.

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by IMJ »

Sorry to hear this, but I maybe this shows some validity to the CBCS signature matching.... I mean, it sucks but basically they did their jobs.
On that note - dude crack that book from the slab, shred it and recycle it so that it no longer stares you in the face or contaminates the population of comic books. It's not like we have a pop-culture angry girlfriend to hold onto here, and personally I don't like my comics mocking me.

:o :P

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by nycjadie »

They did their jobs maybe on matching the signature, but man, what a departure on the grading, especially as CGC industry standard is to go qualified without taking points off for unqualified signatures. Bad form.

I don't mind my CBCS slabs, but it's not my go to for sure.

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by IMJ »

nycjadie wrote:They did their jobs maybe on matching the signature, but man, what a departure on the grading, especially as CGC industry standard is to go qualified without taking points off for unqualified signatures. Bad form.

I don't mind my CBCS slabs, but it's not my go to for sure.
Would you rather have had a qualified label? I avoid them at all costs and don't have one in my collection.... although in instances like these, I can understand - qualified = higher grade and possible understanding that the label is because of a signature....

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by greg »

mkb28 wrote:
ckb wrote:Man that really stinks. I would think it would be worth a phone call by CBCS when you get a book like that which you are going to stick someone with a 5.5. I guess CBCS does not do qualified? That must be the reason, CGC would do the same thing if forced to give a universal grade to a signed book. I assume if they verify the signatures THEN they do qualified?

On the signatures, I think they might be correct. The Quesada just doesn't look right. It doesn't mean it's forged, it just means it's not like any I have seen.
Thanks for your input, CKB. :thumb: For now I hide the book in my closet because it makes me mad to look at it. :!:
Since just about everyone is online in some form or other, you might try reaching out to Quesada and asking. That would be an interesting experiment regardless of the result.

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by IMJ »

greg wrote:
mkb28 wrote:
ckb wrote:Man that really stinks. I would think it would be worth a phone call by CBCS when you get a book like that which you are going to stick someone with a 5.5. I guess CBCS does not do qualified? That must be the reason, CGC would do the same thing if forced to give a universal grade to a signed book. I assume if they verify the signatures THEN they do qualified?

On the signatures, I think they might be correct. The Quesada just doesn't look right. It doesn't mean it's forged, it just means it's not like any I have seen.
Thanks for your input, CKB. :thumb: For now I hide the book in my closet because it makes me mad to look at it. :!:
Since just about everyone is online in some form or other, you might try reaching out to Quesada and asking. That would be an interesting experiment regardless of the result.
On my Advanced Iron cover jam, the Quesada auto (which I got in person) is mostly a big "Q" with some squiggly before and after lines, rather than the full name on the lower right of the CBCS slab...

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by nycjadie »

IMJ wrote:
nycjadie wrote:They did their jobs maybe on matching the signature, but man, what a departure on the grading, especially as CGC industry standard is to go qualified without taking points off for unqualified signatures. Bad form.

I don't mind my CBCS slabs, but it's not my go to for sure.
Would you rather have had a qualified label? I avoid them at all costs and don't have one in my collection.... although in instances like these, I can understand - qualified = higher grade and possible understanding that the label is because of a signature....
I’d rather have a 9.8 qualified. I can be a judge on whether the signs are legit. I would not want an unverified 5.5 in 9.8 condition. That would drive me batty. I have qualified CGC slabs, and it’s the only way to get a VVSS slab. Outside of BawS, who would counterfeit a Valiant signature? I don’t think it’s worth it.

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by greg »

nycjadie wrote:
IMJ wrote:
nycjadie wrote:They did their jobs maybe on matching the signature, but man, what a departure on the grading, especially as CGC industry standard is to go qualified without taking points off for unqualified signatures. Bad form.

I don't mind my CBCS slabs, but it's not my go to for sure.
Would you rather have had a qualified label? I avoid them at all costs and don't have one in my collection.... although in instances like these, I can understand - qualified = higher grade and possible understanding that the label is because of a signature....
I’d rather have a 9.8 qualified. I can be a judge on whether the signs are legit. I would not want an unverified 5.5 in 9.8 condition. That would drive me batty. I have qualified CGC slabs, and it’s the only way to get a VVSS slab. Outside of BawS, who would counterfeit a Valiant signature? I don’t think it’s worth it.
Someone sitting on a pile of Batman #500 has every reason to counterfeit signatures. They might get a nickel for unsigned copies. Even $1 for fake autographs would be 2000% return.

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by mkb28 »

IMJ wrote:Sorry to hear this, but I maybe this shows some validity to the CBCS signature matching.... I mean, it sucks but basically they did their jobs.
On that note - dude crack that book from the slab, shred it and recycle it so that it no longer stares you in the face or contaminates the population of comic books. It's not like we have a pop-culture angry girlfriend to hold onto here, and personally I don't like my comics mocking me.

:o :P

-This was mostly a joke meant to make you laugh - not to make fun of you-
This did bring a smile to my face! :thumb: :funnypost:

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by mrwoogieman »

It would seem to me that if CBCS is offering a signature authentication service, they should give a head's up that the signatures can't be verified before they grade it! I find it surprising that that isn't the norm, frankly.

Especially when you consider they are cornering the market on already-signed books being submitted to them.
:hm:

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by mkb28 »

IMJ wrote:Sorry to hear this, but I maybe this shows some validity to the CBCS signature matching.... I mean, it sucks but basically they did their jobs.
On that note - dude crack that book from the slab, shred it and recycle it so that it no longer stares you in the face or contaminates the population of comic books. It's not like we have a pop-culture angry girlfriend to hold onto here, and personally I don't like my comics mocking me.

:o :P

-This was mostly a joke meant to make you laugh - not to make fun of you-
I met a local DC comics collector and he is buying a few of my DC slabs and raw books. I told him if he buys 3 or more slabs, he can have the CBCS 5.5 book for free. He did in fact agree to buy 3 slabs, so this one won’t be mocking me from the closet any longer. :lol:

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by IMJ »

:high-five:

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Re: Don't Make the Same Mistake I Did With the CBCS VSP Serv

Post by nycjadie »

:high-five:


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