SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by greg »

Ricomortis wrote:
greg wrote:
Juki wrote:What do you think the print number is on this particular Sauvage issue? I'm not sure what "more like Acclaim numbers" would mean in real numbers.
The Sauvage variant is "Cover D" with no incentive requirements, and the Ninjak #1 number reported by Comichron is 24,351 for all $3.99 covers.
We know that the Comichron number is usually low, particularly if there are other variants for store exclusives, but I don't think those would impact the number of Cover D that sold.

Just a ballpark guess, but I'd say Cover D, Ninjak #1 Sauvage is probably around 5,000 copies... and I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually closer to 3,000.
So basically Greg...

You are saying the print run is the lower end of the "Acclaim years"? :lol:

I remember seeing some chart or something (I think it was something you created?) that showed print runs and what they are considered. If I remember when you got below 5000 copies on something, THAT was legitimately considered "rare".

Am I right on that?
Well, under 5,000 copies was definitely "90s rare"... back when a million copies of small publisher books disappeared from shops the first week.

"Rare" in today's terms is a little different, since the market has shrunk so much. What is needed for "rare" today is a lower print run which has been distributed widely... basically, books that "went out" normally, then got hot later.

Books like store exclusives are often way under 5,000 copies, but they never seem to lead a "normal life", because all the copies are so concentrated and distribution is "wonky" for lack of a better word.

So, a book like the Sauvage Ninjak #1 is almost a perfect "rare" book. Enough copies that it can be sold often enough to establish a regular market. Generally "normal distribution" without initial "hype" (associated with ratio variants). Except for the remaining copies still concentrated in a few hands, the book is "gone" without much fanfare.

Those kinds of books are just hard to get back... there's no mechanism for copies to come back to market. It wasn't stockpiled, it isn't in many store inventories, and collectors aren't sellers back to the general public as often as it seems.

1990s books have the additional benefit of two decades of "dissolving into the crowd", so it can be hard to find any book under 20,000 copies now (especially if the book wasn't loved immediately).

New books under 5,000 copies that are "more wanted than average immediately" can be pretty easy to find forever, if they don't "dissolve into the crowd" first.

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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by Ricomortis »

greg wrote:
Ricomortis wrote:
greg wrote:
Juki wrote:What do you think the print number is on this particular Sauvage issue? I'm not sure what "more like Acclaim numbers" would mean in real numbers.
The Sauvage variant is "Cover D" with no incentive requirements, and the Ninjak #1 number reported by Comichron is 24,351 for all $3.99 covers.
We know that the Comichron number is usually low, particularly if there are other variants for store exclusives, but I don't think those would impact the number of Cover D that sold.

Just a ballpark guess, but I'd say Cover D, Ninjak #1 Sauvage is probably around 5,000 copies... and I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually closer to 3,000.
So basically Greg...

You are saying the print run is the lower end of the "Acclaim years"? :lol:

I remember seeing some chart or something (I think it was something you created?) that showed print runs and what they are considered. If I remember when you got below 5000 copies on something, THAT was legitimately considered "rare".

Am I right on that?
Well, under 5,000 copies was definitely "90s rare"... back when a million copies of small publisher books disappeared from shops the first week.

"Rare" in today's terms is a little different, since the market has shrunk so much. What is needed for "rare" today is a lower print run which has been distributed widely... basically, books that "went out" normally, then got hot later.

Books like store exclusives are often way under 5,000 copies, but they never seem to lead a "normal life", because all the copies are so concentrated and distribution is "wonky" for lack of a better word.

So, a book like the Sauvage Ninjak #1 is almost a perfect "rare" book. Enough copies that it can be sold often enough to establish a regular market. Generally "normal distribution" without initial "hype" (associated with ratio variants). Except for the remaining copies still concentrated in a few hands, the book is "gone" without much fanfare.

Those kinds of books are just hard to get back... there's no mechanism for copies to come back to market. It wasn't stockpiled, it isn't in many store inventories, and collectors aren't sellers back to the general public as often as it seems.

1990s books have the additional benefit of two decades of "dissolving into the crowd", so it can be hard to find any book under 20,000 copies now (especially if the book wasn't loved immediately).

New books under 5,000 copies that are "more wanted than average immediately" can be pretty easy to find forever, if they don't "dissolve into the crowd" first.
I feel if just the comic collectors of today (the market) turn to valiant. Its all over with... There just isn't enough books to fulfill anything.

I remember buying the first 10-15 issues of walking dead in multiples... Thinking to myself... Wtf? This series is badass... Why are these still available and why isn't this blowing up? 14 years later... Lol

It can happen (I'm happy even if it doesn't) and if/when it does, it's just going to make things that much more difficult and expensive to finish runs. :lol:

Lets not mention how the few of us have stockpiled the little bit that's out there.

Just a thought and opinion I've had recently.
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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by greg »

Ricomortis wrote:
greg wrote:
Ricomortis wrote:
greg wrote:
Juki wrote:What do you think the print number is on this particular Sauvage issue? I'm not sure what "more like Acclaim numbers" would mean in real numbers.
The Sauvage variant is "Cover D" with no incentive requirements, and the Ninjak #1 number reported by Comichron is 24,351 for all $3.99 covers.
We know that the Comichron number is usually low, particularly if there are other variants for store exclusives, but I don't think those would impact the number of Cover D that sold.

Just a ballpark guess, but I'd say Cover D, Ninjak #1 Sauvage is probably around 5,000 copies... and I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually closer to 3,000.
So basically Greg...

You are saying the print run is the lower end of the "Acclaim years"? :lol:

I remember seeing some chart or something (I think it was something you created?) that showed print runs and what they are considered. If I remember when you got below 5000 copies on something, THAT was legitimately considered "rare".

Am I right on that?
Well, under 5,000 copies was definitely "90s rare"... back when a million copies of small publisher books disappeared from shops the first week.

"Rare" in today's terms is a little different, since the market has shrunk so much. What is needed for "rare" today is a lower print run which has been distributed widely... basically, books that "went out" normally, then got hot later.

Books like store exclusives are often way under 5,000 copies, but they never seem to lead a "normal life", because all the copies are so concentrated and distribution is "wonky" for lack of a better word.

So, a book like the Sauvage Ninjak #1 is almost a perfect "rare" book. Enough copies that it can be sold often enough to establish a regular market. Generally "normal distribution" without initial "hype" (associated with ratio variants). Except for the remaining copies still concentrated in a few hands, the book is "gone" without much fanfare.

Those kinds of books are just hard to get back... there's no mechanism for copies to come back to market. It wasn't stockpiled, it isn't in many store inventories, and collectors aren't sellers back to the general public as often as it seems.

1990s books have the additional benefit of two decades of "dissolving into the crowd", so it can be hard to find any book under 20,000 copies now (especially if the book wasn't loved immediately).

New books under 5,000 copies that are "more wanted than average immediately" can be pretty easy to find forever, if they don't "dissolve into the crowd" first.
I feel if just the comic collectors of today (the market) turn to valiant. Its all over with... There just isn't enough books to fulfill anything.

I remember buying the first 10-15 issues of walking dead in multiples... Thinking to myself... Wtf? This series is badass... Why are these still available and why isn't this blowing up? 14 years later... Lol

It can happen (I'm happy even if it doesn't) and if/when it does, it's just going to make things that much more difficult and expensive to finish runs. :lol:

Lets not mention how the few of us have stockpiled the little bit that's out there.

Just a thought and opinion I've had recently.
If Valiant follows The Walking Dead for back issues, that would definitely be something.

The odds are low, but as long as the quality is high... there's a better foundation than most.

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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by paradise »

Specially considering many stores only order cover A, and definitely less of c than b, and least of d. I am not sure consumers really understand retailer mentality. Each cover is additional SKU and additional employee time so many store owners who hate variants only order cover A or first two covers and very few actually pay attention to cover images, as can be proven by the eBay prices of Artegm's early Supergirl variants and others. This cover was probably severely under ordered by retailers and that's why there is a price difference, plus the character on the cover plus amazing art by a recently promoted to HOT status artist. Perfect storm.
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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by greg »

paradise wrote:Specially considering many stores only order cover A, and definitely less of c than b, and least of d. I am not sure consumers really understand retailer mentality. Each cover is additional SKU and additional employee time so many store owners who hate variants only order cover A or first two covers and very few actually pay attention to cover images, as can be proven by the eBay prices of Artegm's early Supergirl variants and others. This cover was probably severely under ordered by retailers and that's why there is a price difference, plus the character on the cover plus amazing art by a recently promoted to HOT status artist. Perfect storm.
I agree, the only thing "holding this book back" is the fact that you still have them in bulk. Some buyers aren't sure when your supply will end, so they're hesitant to jump in... the same thing happened with X-O #1/2 Gold. One seller had all the available supply, and only after the supply was definitely gone did the market rise.

It's up to you to tell us it's 50 copies or 500 or just 5 left... or not say anything. But until all copies are "secondhand" the book can't go "Walking Dead".

You literally control all the copies of Collector's Paradise exclusive variants... but you effectively control this "regular" Cover D also.

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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by nycjadie »

Lucky enough to get this one in 9.8. There are 4, and I pulled 2 of them. Ended up selling the other one for a song, really.

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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by Ricomortis »

nycjadie wrote:Lucky enough to get this one in 9.8. There are 4, and I pulled 2 of them. Ended up selling the other one for a song, really.
I own 1 of the four. :thumb:
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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by paradise »

greg wrote:I agree, the only thing "holding this book back" is the fact that you still have them in bulk. Some buyers aren't sure when your supply will end, so they're hesitant to jump in... the same thing happened with X-O #1/2 Gold. One seller had all the available supply, and only after the supply was definitely gone did the market rise.

It's up to you to tell us it's 50 copies or 500 or just 5 left... or not say anything. But until all copies are "secondhand" the book can't go "Walking Dead".

You literally control all the copies of Collector's Paradise exclusive variants... but you effectively control this "regular" Cover D also.
I don't disagree with that. So I probably won't talk about how many I have but I will say a few things:

1. It's nowhere near 500 :)
2. I will and actually already am tightening prices and discounts on these as I get to lower quantities. First i removed free shipping, now I made it so it's no longer buy3, get 15% discount.
3. People are getting best copies first, so I won't be able to say NM+ for a long time.
4. A good percentage of these books will be used for something else I am planning this coming week, which will greatly reduce my total number.
5. It's not a thing I would wait a long time to pull a trigger, honestly. Specially on that one. I have MORE of the other 3 covers though the 1:10 Dave Johnson is a steal at $10 if you think about it.
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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by Summydad1 »

I would like to add something since I bought one of the Sauvage variants when they were first offered. The cover is beautiful and the condition is excellent. This book is only $25. I don't care if there are 50 million copies in circulation. There is zero risk for me. I get a cool book by a great artist and I get to support one of our own in the process. Win, win! I don't know if that is relevant in this conversation but I felt like saying it.
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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by greg »

That's the kind of response from Paradise that can get collectors excited. :D

Summydad1's reply helps, too. :D :D

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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by greg »

The more I think about this book, the more it reminds me of the Harbinger #7 Flamingo variant, but better.

Harbinger #7 Flamingo variant by Lupaccino wasn't a ratio incentive variant. It was an "order all you want, if you qualify" which was too confusing, too much work, or too unnecessary for most retailers. So, only a few retailers had them, and it was a while before everyone realized they were pretty hard to find.

I say the Ninjak #1 Sauvage variant is similar for similar reasons, but better... because this is the first appearance of Roku, and she wasn't a previous 1990s character like Flamingo... and Roku has a live-action feature that none of the other Valiant characters had when they were only 3 years in print.

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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by greg »

paradise wrote:... the 1:10 Dave Johnson is a steal at $10 if you think about it.
Why is Cover C being described as 1:10 when Cover D was an order-all?

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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by Juki »

4. A good percentage of these books will be used for something else I am planning this coming week, which will greatly reduce my total number.


Will this be something we can get in on?... Or... Is it only at your physical " brick and mortar" shops? :?

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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by paradise »

Juki wrote:4. A good percentage of these books will be used for something else I am planning this coming week, which will greatly reduce my total number.
Will this be something we can get in on?... Or... Is it only at your physical " brick and mortar" shops? :?
It's nothing like that, you will know when and if it happens
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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

@Paradise, just wanted to say I got this book in this AM and DAMN! This thing is sexy AF!! Seeing it on screen is one thing, but in your hands is something totally different!
Moose

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Re: SUPER NICE Ninjak #1 copies (1st Roku) on ebay...

Post by Juki »

Postman just delivered mine at work... I will open this evening when I get off!


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