Secret Weapons #22(!)

chadpdodge · Post by **chadpdodge** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:27:10 pm

I understand that Dinesh was a fan, but the book clearly says that the book was given permission from Valiant to do the publication. If the label clearly states that it was a valiantfans.com fan project I see no issue. Call a spade a spade.
Secret of the Valiant universe #1 wizard silver foil edition wasn't available to the public. It was found years later and distributed among a few select people.
A + A Bootleg was produced by Rafer Roberts firstly. Then noticed by Dinesh/Valiant and liked. Publisher is not listed and both of these have been certified by CGC.
I'm not saying that it's a Valiant publication. I'm just saying there is a lot of grey area and CGC has made exceptions in the past. Did they explain my book the way I would've to Valiant, probably not. So I'm going to take the next step and ask Dinesh myself and get his feelings about all of this. I didn't spend nearly as much on my copy as some, as I got it as a second chance offer on one of the first listing on ebay. I just want to let those who forked down on the book to know their options. I want the book for my personal collection. Like all my other books, but one day I will die and I want my daughter to know what she inherited and have the best chance at selling it. I'm the collector not her.

paradise · Post by **paradise** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:51:27 pm

I am no longer interested in arguing the semantics of this grading issue.

My bigger question is this. Why is the book increasing in bid amount as more and more copies are posted? It should be the opposite.

Now we find out that this guy is sending 2nd chance offers to people too. That could mean 3-5 extra copies sold per auction. I have been selling on eBay for 20 years. To me it says he has a ton and is laughing all the way to the bank. Some people are going to be really *SQUEE* off later on.

chadpdodge · Post by **chadpdodge** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:06:14 am

My sentiments exactly.

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:36:36 am

Secret Weapons #22 is an authorized ValiantFans.com digital project from 2007.
http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14642" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was created digitally by Chris Gould (kc_collectibles on this board), with Dinesh's permission, and was given away to everyone as a downloadable file. The explanation in the book is that it is a "web comic", repeated several times on the inside cover digital page as explained by Chris Gould.

Anyone could have printed copies then, and anyone could print copies now, but no printed copies are authorized by ValiantFans.com.

Another Valiant fan website (not one of mine) was created years ago with the goal of doing different kinds of fan projects. That site was Valiant Collectors Society. The administrator of VCS was Ryan Williams. On this board he is "imagesowner2". He had these Secret Weapons #22 comics printed from the ValiantFans.com digital file on his own.

If he had Dinesh's permission, that's not something that involved me. If he and Dinesh agreed on a specific number of copies, that's not something that involved me. A couple months ago, he contacted me to say he found these printed copies when he was moving, and he sent me two copies for free. One for me, and one for Chris Gould, if I can get in touch with him.

I have seen the auctions, but I'm not involved in those. I wasn't involved in any copies being printed in 2007 or after. I wasn't involved with Valiant Collectors Society, except as a regular member of the VCS mesage board when it was online.

I was part of the original 2007 ValiantFans.com official digital file project of free electronic copies.

I don't know how many printed copies exist, but they are definitely fan made... not official. The official project was for digital copies only.

chadpdodge · Post by **chadpdodge** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:47:28 am

To all involved. This response from Greg is prompted from my messaging him. As I'd found the web comic myself. I messaged Dinesh and Dan Moler also. I haven't received any responses as of yet. When I brought my copy it simply said unpublished and here I find out it was a sanctioned Web Comic. I'm was kinda sore to say the least when I found this out.
Thanks Greg

chadpdodge · Post by **chadpdodge** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:15:01 am

Hey Chad,

My recollection is that this was a fan project that was put together digitally and that a few copies were produced physically. I vaguely remember an article on CBR about it at the time. Didn't know I was credited in the book itself. Hope that helps.

Best,

Dinesh

So there were a few hard copies made. As Dinesh says he vaguely remebers an article about the web comic and the hard copies produced. Makes me feel a lil bit better about the whole situation. Glad I contacted some of the people involved and they that they got back to me so quickly.
Thanks Dinesh

nycjadie · Post by **nycjadie** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:23:15 am

I'm not sure I understand the reluctance not to grade a fan book. If they can identify it as an official publication - great - that doesn't seem to be a problem. Similarly, if they can identify it as an unofficial publication, that also seems great. They can label the slab as such. It's not like this is a bootleg, which would be a copy of an official publication. This is a new book. Even if it's arguably infringing, and I'm not saying whether it is or isn't, that shouldn't be an issue with the grading company. They are there to grade and encapsulate books, with a proper label. Seems like a non-issue to me.

What about the trashcan? Should that also be ineligible for grading? What about the A+A bootleg? Seems like CGC is taking a philosophical stand based on its own shifting criteria.

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:22:44 pm

nycjadie wrote:I'm not sure I understand the reluctance not to grade a fan book. If they can identify it as an official publication - great - that doesn't seem to be a problem. Similarly, if they can identify it as an unofficial publication, that also seems great. They can label the slab as such. It's not like this is a bootleg, which would be a copy of an official publication. This is a new book. Even if it's arguably infringing, and I'm not saying whether it is or isn't, that shouldn't be an issue with the grading company. They are there to grade and encapsulate books, with a proper label. Seems like a non-issue to me.

What about the trashcan? Should that also be ineligible for grading? What about the A+A bootleg? Seems like CGC is taking a philosophical stand based on its own shifting criteria.

Seems like CGC is checking with the trademark and copyright owners to determine what to grade.

chadpdodge · Post by **chadpdodge** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:02:23 pm

Yes that's true. Here's what Dinesh just told me:

I can't speak for CGC on the matter. They did ask our opinion and we told them that we suggest either not grading the books or labeling them fan projects.

So I will not feel bad or like I did something wrong having PGX label the book as a fan project. As Dinesh said that's appropriate. CGC just choose not to label the book because it's fan made, which's okay too. However, it sucks as they're my first choice. Now I've the proper background to give PGX when the slab my copy.

lobo · Post by **lobo** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:54:54 pm

paradise wrote:
lobo wrote: This is BS. How can a comic company tell CGC what to encapsulate or not to encapsulate? Why would CGC care when paying customers are just requiring a grade to be assigned to a 'book'?
Uhm, because it has their logo and intellectual property on it, and they don't want to imply by grading that it's a book they produced? It's pretty simple actually

Thanks for talking down to me

As already stated, CGC has slabbed counterfeit books and charged customers for it and yet slabbing this book seems to fly in the face of their standards? CGC can give it a new color label or appropriate notations to set it apart from an "authentic" VEI property comic.

lobo · Post by **lobo** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:08:42 pm

greg wrote:
Another Valiant fan website (not one of mine) was created years ago with the goal of doing different kinds of fan projects. That site was Valiant Collectors Society. The administrator of VCS was Ryan Williams. On this board he is "imagesowner2".

Whatever happened to that site and Ryan anyways? I think that guy owes me some money or a fan project.... but its been so long I can't remember which one.

Funcha · Post by **Funcha** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:32:05 pm

This whole thread got me thinking. My employer works with several printers and I could explore doing another small run on this to avoid paying crazy eBay prices. Maybe I could do this as a “gold edition” to establish this isn’t from the initial run. Is this something I’d need to get Dinesh’s permission to produce? If it’s feasible I’d like to do a very small run just to have a physical copy for myself and anyone here that wants one. But I don’t want to do anything that’s not above board or breaking copyright laws or anything like that.

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greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:34:42 pm

Funcha wrote:This whole thread got me thinking. My employer works with several printers and I could explore doing another small run on this to avoid paying crazy eBay prices. Maybe I could do this as a “gold edition” to establish this isn’t from the initial run. Is this something I’d need to get Dinesh’s permission to produce? If it’s feasible I’d like to do a very small run just to have a physical copy for myself and anyone here that wants one. But I don’t want to do anything that’s not above board or breaking copyright laws or anything like that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In order to publicly offer copies on this board, I would want to see Dinesh's permission. Our policy is to only allow (through board posts) sales of legal items, no matter how much love or generosity goes into a fan project.

Funcha · Post by **Funcha** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:10:27 pm

greg wrote:
Funcha wrote:This whole thread got me thinking. My employer works with several printers and I could explore doing another small run on this to avoid paying crazy eBay prices. Maybe I could do this as a “gold edition” to establish this isn’t from the initial run. Is this something I’d need to get Dinesh’s permission to produce? If it’s feasible I’d like to do a very small run just to have a physical copy for myself and anyone here that wants one. But I don’t want to do anything that’s not above board or breaking copyright laws or anything like that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In order to publicly offer copies on this board, I would want to see Dinesh's permission. Our policy is to only allow (through board posts) sales of legal items, no matter how much love or generosity goes into a fan project.

I completely agree. I just want a physical copy as a fan of old school Valiant. Talked to my print guy and he knows local printers that could do it. Not sure the cost yet. If I was to do a run it would be strictly limited to copies requested for fellow boarders and sold at my cost. I may investigate doing a version with either gold ink or gold foil for the logo to make this stand out from the earlier fan edition. But again, no permission, no go.

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chadpdodge · Post by **chadpdodge** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:35:28 pm

I'd love to see that. I'm sure Dinesh would be game if all the proper channels are in order!

nycjadie · Post by **nycjadie** » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:53:11 pm

I'd rather see a gold version of the A+A Bootleg.

lobo · Post by **lobo** » Thu May 03, 2018 12:57:08 pm

Looks like PGX is not above grading this book:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Secret-Weapons ... SwerdamM94" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Thu May 03, 2018 9:02:48 pm

...wow.

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Fri May 04, 2018 8:40:04 am

Nice catch, lobo!

Pain and sorrow likely will follow printed copies of this book whenever they are sold for more than the cost to print them.

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:08:28 am

ckb wrote:Pain and sorrow likely will follow printed copies of this book whenever they are sold for more than the cost to print them.

Prophetically poetic.

Pain and sorrow
likely will follow
printed copies of this
when'ere it's sold
as if it were gold
and not paper hubris

lobo · Post by **lobo** » Tue May 29, 2018 10:48:36 pm

Exact same seller gambled and lost....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Secret-Weapons ... SwerdamM94" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Wed May 30, 2018 7:39:35 am

lobo wrote:Exact same seller gambled and lost....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Secret-Weapons ... SwerdamM94" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

heh

ValiantFans.com Board - Since 2004

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