CLOSED Valiant Keys Waffle/Razz on Facebook (or here?)

[FlipMega]

Hey Team

Am trying to generate some traction for key book waffle/razz on the Valiant BST Facebook page.

First book is Eternal Warrior #4 CGC 9.8 blue.
Future books could be raw, slab, any era - I have lots of variety.

Only about 5 in over there right now, and figure I need at least 10 spots for most books to keep individual costs low ($5-20 usually)

Group Page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2888757 ... ?ref=share

Interest post:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2888757 ... 9376644205

Hop on there if you'd like to join in, or let me know if this is a format that would be welcomed here as well.

Thank you!
Flip

[FlipMega]

I should mention that I intend fair final pricing but trying to do a little better than eBay. For example $100 for this book. More people=cheaper buy in, not jacked up price.

[IMJ]

I'm in several Waffle groups and have never participated in a single one. It seems like a great way to sell books, but I'm always concerned about transparency issues and I never got in depth enough to understand the price structuring ("$$$ but $$$$ with the 'bump" wtf?).

The positives are that you can sell very expensive books to a broader market. Guys pay $20 at a shot to buy a 4k book means potentially getting a great deal as a buyer and an instant sell as a seller that might otherwise have taken months.

The other positives are..... there are none. The groups are replete with scams and bad intent and even in a good group all it takes a single bad player and the whole group is shot.

Basically I don't recommend these groups at all, but I'm very open to hearing why I should.....

[FlipMega]

Hi IMJ thanks for the thoughts and feedback

To be clear the FB group is NOT a "waffle group", just a traditional BST group that has been around quite a while with great members.

I myself don't run any waffle groups or being to any. I've participated in a couple that were run well.

Since action has been slow on the page I thought maybe I could mix it up a little is all.

I've seen the crazy price inflation and I don't want that experience. Just trying to get around market price without the fees and have a little fun.

Goal is FULL transparency. I didn't realize until doing a little reading that there is a lot if scammy stuff out there with these.

It's up to the group (s) if I can run it. If not no sweat, I'm not here to rip anyone off. I LOVE how respectful and chill our groups/pages are and I don't have any desire to taint that, or my rep. I've done business with a lot of good and long tenured folks here, and helped out new members alike.

If it's a go, sweet! If not, maybe I'll find another way to get some books moving!

Thanks again

[nycjadie]

I feel like I'm reading Greek. I'm confused and feeling old.

[mkb28]

I feel like I'm reading Greek. I'm confused and feeling old.

I thought the same thing. “What are those kids talking about?!”

[FlipMega]

Haha I think I'm maybe more of a veteran young guy at this point?

$100 book
10 x $10 spots enter the waffle
1 spot chosen at random leaves the waffle with a new book

[nycjadie]

Haha I think I'm maybe more of a veteran young guy at this point?

$100 book
10 x $10 spots enter the waffle
1 spot chosen at random leaves the waffle with a new book

Nope. Still Greek.

[magnus20009]

Not sure why it is called waffle but it is just an old fashioned raffle. You buy tickets, the tickets all go into a pot, one is drawn out and the winning ticket gets the book. (Although usually people use random number generators these days).

I have never participated in one but have been around groups where they go down hill fast as accusations that related parties or the same people seem to win all the big prizes and everyone else gets the crappy prizes. The main purpose of these draws seem to be to get say $1000 for a $750 book (see 100 tickets at 10 each) or to collect $1000 but have a friend win the book so you get the money and never need to "really" sell it. Rarely is anything ever sold at the real market price - because the item would be able to be sold if it was priced at market and it would eliminate the effort needed to organize a waffle.

I would rather just buy the item if I wanted it then buy waffle tickets but then I do not buy lottery tickets and have never gambled in any casino that I have been in.

Flip think you might have a challenge trying to sell books this way as so many bad apples have burnt people that I think many have just written off participating in these types of sales. Tremendous transparency is needed to be be successful I would think. Good luck with the sales.

[IMJ]

I feel like I'm reading Greek. I'm confused and feeling old.

I thought the same thing. “What are those kids talking about?!”

Dudes. I think you guys are younger than me..... But you've gotta keep up with the trends in this hobby, cmon!

Nope. Still Greek.

Here's the short of it. Ignore the term "waffle" and just think "raffle". It's gambling for expensive books.

I want to sell my New Gods #1 CGC 9.6. It's an expensive book - I want to sell it for... I dunno.... $1600. But instead of shopping for a buyer and testing the market, it's a solid enough DC key that there are a lot of people that sure as hell would try to own it for fifty bucks.

So I run a "waffle" on it on Facebook. I put out an announcement and I sell 32 spots for $50 a pop. We use a random number selector website on the internet to draw the winning number (in this case, 1 - 32). The guy who's number is pulled gets the book for $50 but as a seller I made my $1600 because I sold all the slots.

There's a little more to it, but the little more is where it gets murky and I'm not a fan. There's a lot of "phony tansparency" (i.e. the guy who runs the group holds the money and gets a cut at winner, wtf?!), you have to record the random draw from the website so everyone can see it - ideally it's supposed to be live, but often it isn't.

Honestly if I felt that I could manage the transparency of the whole thing I've got like 15 super keys in slabs that I'd sell that way right now. But all's it takes is one issue, concern or problem and I'm not going to have my rep tarnished or go down in flames because of a waffle group.

[FlipMega]

That's all well and good, and I appreciate the experience call out.

I don't think the example you're sharing has any likeness to what I'm describing as it relates to intent. Although it's good to keep people aware that there are more predatory practices out there.

Like I say, just a regular group guy trying to mix it up. It's not really a complex operation here.

No group
No markup
No cut
No attempt to sell huge books
No back alley deals or relationships

Look if it's not in favor then I won't run it. Simple.

Anyone want EW4 9.8 for $100? Lol

[IMJ]

FlipMega, none of my commentary here is directed towards you. I do what I do - I point out things that are great and I point out flaws and areas of improvement as I see them. Sometimes that scares the *SQUEE* out of people - it rocks their reality. Most recently I did this regarding a publisher and it scared some people here into virtue signaling so as not to appear in negative cahoots with my observations. But there's nothing negative about analyzing the truths of a given situation, so don't sweat the conversation about this here.

I'm just going to keep discussing things as I see them logically. Like I said if there's a better perspective than I'm giving, please distribute it here.

[FlipMega]

You're good, preciate the clarification. I'm a pragmatic man, not taking it personally. Just felt that while not directed at me, it's quite a FUDish example to give, but I understand it's informed by your experience and I appreciate that.

Mayhaps it would be observed I've already stated no markup and clear "pricing", it's not mega money books. You could of restated my example, no? What do you like about what I've shared?

I've offered my perspective of trying to be above board, simple, fun, safe, and respectful of this community. Doesn't sound like that perspective is resonating with you, and that's ok. . My world is in tact.

If anyone requires more information. Please feel free to post the questions for all to benefit from the answer.

[GGSAE]

I’m not a fan of these waffle items, it kind of speaks volumes about consumption in society. Similar to those mystery boxes from amazon, why spend money on something you don’t even know what you’re getting?! Lol.
There’s a great family guy skit that I would add here if I wasn’t on my phone - google peter mystery box/boat- ahahaha hilarious.


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[IMJ]

I’m not a fan of these waffle items, it kind of speaks volumes about consumption in society. Similar to those mystery boxes from amazon, why spend money on something you don’t even know what you’re getting?! Lol.
There’s a great family guy skit that I would add here if I wasn’t on my phone - google peter mystery box/boat- ahahaha hilarious.


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Well with the waffles you know what you are getting - it's not mystery box buying. It's basically buying raffle tickets for a specifically solicited book. Honestly, in theory I think it's terrific - you can move expensive books VERY quickly and buyers who enjoy gambling can win great books for next to nothing.

The whole, most accurate critique is the lack of transparency when done online in Facebook groups. The secondary critique is the bit of pyramid scheme involved - the group owner takes a cut of the sellers money who takes the money from the gamblers who are out the money at the bottom without having 100% confidence that it was enforced fairly.

If I could get past that I'd be all-in on selling huge books that way.

[GGSAE]

I see that, like buying lottery tickets. Which I don’t agree with, if you want a book just figure out how to buy it! For the sellers with a big book, you don’t need something like that to sell it, keys sell regardless....


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[FlipMega]

IMJ still carrying on about factors that have nothing to do with my description, I see.

For those interested in the outcome I have chosen not to move forward in this format due to a lack of interest to make the offer compelling for either buy/sell side of this $100 book. Further research indicates there's also gray area around state sanctioned lotteries, etc. and prolly best to not get into those waters.

Thanks all for the feedback, IMJ included.