ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

Well, just for the record it's ectotheric energy. The Malevs used it as an energy source and Leeja drew her powers from it.

But I think the poster was referring to the Akashic Record.

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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

pixierosa wrote:
Kurokashi-san wrote:I'm ashamed to admit I didn't read Valiant the first time around when I was younger. I greatly regret that as I'm currently loving the rebooted Valiant universe.
I'm new to Valiant, too. I've been reading the original series, which are good, but not necessary.

I might add that while I like the original series and have no doubt they were groundbreaking/outstanding in their day, the new launches are better. It's amazing the changes in art that have happened in the comic world since the 90s.

Great point on how things have changed since the 90's. VH1 had moments of brilliance and great concepts but the delivery was inconsistent. New Valiant takes those concepts and delivers them in the way that VH1 should have been, X-O Manowar being a perfect example.

Thankfully (Valiant) comics in 2012 have evolved significantly, I probably wouldn't buy many VH1 if they were new releases now.

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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by kjjohanson »

greg wrote:Tons of stuff in this issue:
Mary-Maria says that Aram's satchel is bottomless…
It's bigger on the inside than on the outside! Aram has Time Lord technology!
Xtianhardy wrote:I don't have my issue on me right now (posting at work, such is life) but what was the name of that energy pool that the Nazi Lamas said Archer can tap into?
I don't read it so much as drawing on any sort of energy but simply as accessing knowledge. If I'm not mistaken, FVL wrote a Taskmaster mini for Marvel, who pretty much has the same power, no?
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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

Having read it again today, I also wanted to chime in that the art is terrific as always and the color was a standout. :thumb:

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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by greg »

Ivar tells/shows Archer how to stop the Boon... so what does that tell us?

Does it mean:
Ivar (the Timewalker) has seen the future and knows the world would have died (again) if Obadiah Archer hadn't stopped the Boon?
If Archer hadn't stopped the Boon, would the Archer parents have succeeded in becoming immortal (or were they going to die anyway)?
Who would have benefitted from the Boon if it hadn't been stopped? Obadiah? Armstrong? Geomancer? Ivar?
(Would it have benefitted Darque? Is this about necromantic energy? Would the Boon killing everyone on Earth have given power to Darque?)

Ivar saved the planet from death, right? Ivar is a good guy?
Or was Ivar self-serving (pretending to be God/Jesus to control Archer) the whole time?
Was Ivar actually the one to benefit from the Boon being stopped?

:hm:

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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

Lots of posts here already, lots of good theorizing too - instead of trying to reply to some, I'm just gonna... do a 'virtual vomit' of my thoughts/impressions out into the ether, here...

Wow, what a great issue this was. Possibly one of the single best issues to date in the whole re-launch [across all 5 titles]. Tons of great little nods & huge revelations about the Valiant universe in general, and the Anni-Padda brothers & Archer in particular. This issue felt like it truly hit its stride as an A&A book, everything was clicking from the action to the dialogue [I particularly liked the banter between A&A, it felt far more authentic with them consistently addressing each other as 'Kid' & 'Sir'].

Other random thoughts/impressions;

The Akashic Record - what a cool real-world concept to tap into for the power of the Green Dragon Lamas. Hope we'll be seeing more use of/reference to this in the future. I'm also curious as to what Archer is exactly with his connection to this - is he a psiot who can naturally 'access' this thing, or what? The PRS connection [Nevada base] suggests he is, and I suppose upon reflection that if you assume all psiots abilities are based on 'mental powers' at their core/root, then naturally tapping into an entire 'social unconscious' stream of knowledge/energy makes sense as a psiotic power. Obie is likely a rare Omega class psiot like Pete & Toyo...

What exactly happened there when Archer's ability became disrupted? Was is just that the Nazi Monks had actually knocked him for a loop, or something more?

Loved those Nazi Monks soo much this issue - from the explanation of the mustaches ['Nein, we just like those'] to what has to be the best comedic line of the series so far ['You've just been Blitzkrieged, dummkopf! Booyah!'] - lol - I love that dummkopf translates into 'stupid person or blockhead'. So silly & absurd.

I absolutely LOL'ed when the geomancer was crushed by the boon... Its not the kind of thing that should be funny, of course, but the delivery was hilarious. And I loved the 'He could be okay! He could be okay!' line. :lol: :lol: There isn't much to go on to speculate as to who this Geomancer is... we know the new one will be a McHenry, but Geomancers don't necessarily follow a genetic line, right? I mean, we've also already seen in the preview of next issue that there was an asian geomancer in the new VEI universe. What was the name of the geomancer before Geoff in VH1? Maybe this was him?

Pankration - a bit ironic that Archer used this style, what with the 'anything goes except eye-gouging' definition of the technique.

The satchel - some cool stuff came out of it this issue, yeah? Love the Tesla gun, and the holy grail/spear of destiny... its always great when the objects revealed in there give us historical reference points for places/people/events Aram may have had some involvement with, and even cooler that no dialogue is always required to explain them.

Elliot Zorn - I'm not familiar with the original Valiant version of this character [looked at that wiki link, thanks Greg!], but cool none-the-less that he is referred to. Can't wait to hear more about him...

Ivar - very cool stuff revealed about him this issue... he comes off as having more sincere intentions, but he still feels untrustworthy somehow. Strange that he states he cannot affect the '3D plane' except through Archer, what's up with that? Does he not have a physical body anymore? What if he somehow possessed Mary-Maria's body - can he do that? Could that have been his goal all along in manipulating Archer to get to the completed boon? What if Ivar is able to time-travel because he is currently a spirit-form trapped in the Akashic Record?
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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by BugsySig »

grendeljd wrote:Ivar - very cool stuff revealed about him this issue... he comes off as having more sincere intentions, but he still feels untrustworthy somehow. Strange that he states he cannot affect the '3D plane' except through Archer, what's up with that? Does he not have a physical body anymore? What if he somehow possessed Mary-Maria's body - can he do that? Could that have been his goal all along in manipulating Archer to get to the completed boon? What if Ivar is able to time-travel because he is currently a spirit-form trapped in the Akashic Record?
Now that is an interesting idea no one has thought of yet :thumb: :hm:

The Asian Geomancer may be the one who wrote the book (I forget his name off hand). He found out he would die before finding a successor and wrote the book to pass on the knowledge of the Geomancers, then left it in Ladakh until Gilad found it.
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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by Savant »

grendeljd wrote:There isn't much to go on to speculate as to who this Geomancer is... we know the new one will be a McHenry, but Geomancers don't necessarily follow a genetic line, right? I mean, we've also already seen in the preview of next issue that there was an asian geomancer in the new VEI universe. What was the name of the geomancer before Geoff in VH1? Maybe this was him?
The geomancer before Geoff was related to him. It's possible it's the same guy in this new version of Valiant, except his powers go to a female descendant rather than male.

grendeljd wrote:Ivar - very cool stuff revealed about him this issue... he comes off as having more sincere intentions, but he still feels untrustworthy somehow. Strange that he states he cannot affect the '3D plane' except through Archer, what's up with that? Does he not have a physical body anymore? What if he somehow possessed Mary-Maria's body - can he do that? Could that have been his goal all along in manipulating Archer to get to the completed boon? What if Ivar is able to time-travel because he is currently a spirit-form trapped in the Akashic Record?

My mind is blown, can't believe I didn't think of that.......And imagine if Aram comes across an Ivar-possessed Mary-Maria and starts trying to slip some romantic moves on her.

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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by myron »

Savant wrote:
grendeljd wrote:There isn't much to go on to speculate as to who this Geomancer is... we know the new one will be a McHenry, but Geomancers don't necessarily follow a genetic line, right? I mean, we've also already seen in the preview of next issue that there was an asian geomancer in the new VEI universe. What was the name of the geomancer before Geoff in VH1? Maybe this was him?
The geomancer before Geoff was related to him. It's possible it's the same guy in this new version of Valiant, except his powers go to a female descendant rather than male.

grendeljd wrote:Ivar - very cool stuff revealed about him this issue... he comes off as having more sincere intentions, but he still feels untrustworthy somehow. Strange that he states he cannot affect the '3D plane' except through Archer, what's up with that? Does he not have a physical body anymore? What if he somehow possessed Mary-Maria's body - can he do that? Could that have been his goal all along in manipulating Archer to get to the completed boon? What if Ivar is able to time-travel because he is currently a spirit-form trapped in the Akashic Record?

My mind is blown, can't believe I didn't think of that.......And imagine if Aram comes across an Ivar-possessed Mary-Maria and starts trying to slip some romantic moves on her.
unless they are planning on making Ivar into the Immortal Enemy I would hope this is not the case.
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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by greg »

I wanted to discuss this comment from orbitalshift:
orbitalshift wrote:This is gonna sound off the wall. Did anyone notice that the bleeding monk had blue eyes? It's probably because I read them back to back, but I saw the bleeding monk leaving and I thought he reminds me of an old Archer. Not saying he is, just a blue eyed bald guy in a monk robe made me long for the original Archer.
This is a great point! :clap:

The Green Lama Nazi monks said it took decades to learn how to access the Akashic record... so they've been around that long...
meaning they (or their predecessors) would have been around in the pre-Harada timeframe for the Bleeding Monk?

Did Harada "steal" the Bleeding Monk from a Nazi "emprisonment"?

Next question...
Was the Bleeding Monk brought to the 1940s from "somewhere else" (or sometime else) by the Nazi research into the Boon (and other relics)?
Did someone/something bring the Bleeding Monk into the current time-period (assuming he might be from the future)?
(Sorry, a the Hellboy movie plotline is leaking into my Valiant consciousness.)

The Green Lama Nazi monks said that Archer could become more powerful than he could ever know... so, to orbitalshift's question... could he become the Bleeding Monk?

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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

myron wrote:unless they are planning on making Ivar into the Immortal Enemy I would hope this is not the case.
Speaking of which, in the teaser at the end where Aram and Gilad are defending the geomancer Anqi Sheng, the year is listed as 210 BC. That's the year when we first saw Gilad go up against General Cheng, who goes on to become the Immortal Enemy, in VH1 EW #4.

The year is certainly no coincidence, but Cheng / Sheng? Could it be a geomancer becomes the Immortal Enemy?

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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by pixierosa »

greg wrote:I wanted to discuss this comment from orbitalshift:
orbitalshift wrote:This is gonna sound off the wall. Did anyone notice that the bleeding monk had blue eyes? It's probably because I read them back to back, but I saw the bleeding monk leaving and I thought he reminds me of an old Archer. Not saying he is, just a blue eyed bald guy in a monk robe made me long for the original Archer.
This is a great point! :clap:

The Green Lama Nazi monks said it took decades to learn how to access the Akashic record... so they've been around that long...
meaning they (or their predecessors) would have been around in the pre-Harada timeframe for the Bleeding Monk?

Did Harada "steal" the Bleeding Monk from a Nazi "emprisonment"?

Next question...
Was the Bleeding Monk brought to the 1940s from "somewhere else" (or sometime else) by the Nazi research into the Boon (and other relics)?
Did someone/something bring the Bleeding Monk into the current time-period (assuming he might be from the future)?
(Sorry, a the Hellboy movie plotline is leaking into my Valiant consciousness.)

The Green Lama Nazi monks said that Archer could become more powerful than he could ever know... so, to orbitalshift's question... could he become the Bleeding Monk?
I don't think the Bleeding Monk was in a Nazi emprisonment - the soldiers didn't have any Nazi marking on their uniforms. Seems like they would have some insignia, but the uniforms are plain.

I noticed the blue eyes, too, and wondered if it was a harbinger thing. Some Asians do have blue eyes, and with his being cognizant of the future, the bright eyes could just be indicative of this power. Rai, Bleeding Monk, and Bloodshot all have a distinct marking - I think it will somehow be intertwined. Speaking of which, any predictions on Rai? I'd like to see him come back soon.
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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by MarkRoseHFX »

grendeljd wrote:
Pankration - a bit ironic that Archer used this style, what with the 'anything goes except eye-gouging' definition of the technique.
Back in like 500-600 B.C. yeah. but modern Pankration is basically mixed martial arts with a heavy emphasis on wrestling techniques with some striking.
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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by Elveen »

We just recorded an OTV about this issue, so my comments are there but I'll state the following:

#1) Armstorng is a BIG dude.
#2) The art and coloring is real good
#3) lots of answers and then lots of new questions
#4) Ivar needs some pants
#5) The way that the Geo was killed was funny
#6) "Lucha Libre"!

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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

Last night I read 1-4 all together for the first time... Gotta say, it's a really excellent read, and a solid intro arc overall. Little things that bothered me about this handling of A&A when reading it once a month were much smoother taken in as a whole. I feel really happy with FVL's take on these characters, and I'm getting really excited for the coming of the Eternal Warrior now :D
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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by 400yrs »

greg wrote: More possible clues that Christ was actually Ivar? :?
Sacrelicious!

Good issue. 4/5
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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by lorddunlow »

Savant wrote:Archer & Armstrong has refreshingly been one of the best titles under the new Valiant stable, and from what I remember, I've enjoyed issues 3 & 4 more than the first two issues.

pixierosa wrote:
I caught that about Mary Maria's eyes, but I think it's weird she just took off.
Probably took off because she was bewildered, no one was around so she didn't hear any voices (She seemingly awakened after A&A left the building), and while the Boon was healing her she may have been blind. At least, that was the impression I got with her eyes being blank like Armstrong's were earlier.
I'm thinking that maybe Ivar inhabited her shell so that he could have a corporeal existence. If you look at the last panel with Ivar, it is right before he tells Archer to see through his eyes. Mary Maria is on the ground next to them. Ivar is not seen again and I don't see a Mary Maria silhouette in the explosion panel. I think Mary Maria is dead but Ivar found a way to have a body - at least temporarily.

By the way, if this keeps up A&A may move up from my distant #5 VEI book. This issue was awesome!
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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by BugsySig »

lorddunlow wrote:
Savant wrote:Archer & Armstrong has refreshingly been one of the best titles under the new Valiant stable, and from what I remember, I've enjoyed issues 3 & 4 more than the first two issues.

pixierosa wrote:
I caught that about Mary Maria's eyes, but I think it's weird she just took off.
Probably took off because she was bewildered, no one was around so she didn't hear any voices (She seemingly awakened after A&A left the building), and while the Boon was healing her she may have been blind. At least, that was the impression I got with her eyes being blank like Armstrong's were earlier.
I'm thinking that maybe Ivar inhabited her shell so that he could have a corporeal existence. If you look at the last panel with Ivar, it is right before he tells Archer to see through his eyes. Mary Maria is on the ground next to them. Ivar is not seen again and I don't see a Mary Maria silhouette in the explosion panel. I think Mary Maria is dead but Ivar found a way to have a body - at least temporarily.

By the way, if this keeps up A&A may move up from my distant #5 VEI book. This issue was awesome!
Yah, the more people bring up the possibility, the more convinced I am that Ivar inhabited her body. He did say he had been traveling through time since activating the Boon, trying to right that wrong, so I wonder if we will see "past" Ivar appear before becoming trapped in the Akashic plane and take on an evil Mary-Maria/Ivar from his own future... :hm:
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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by greg »

Strong similarities now between the Boon and Master Darque... symbology, blue color, swirling circles, death/life, and the two realms of existence, special requirements for "crossing over".
The Boon takes life energy (makes death) and concentrates it... obviously, Master Darque is interested in death, power, most likely immortality.

Seems pretty clear that something is being set up separately that will eventually come together.

I joked that Master Darque could be a really old Ivar... unlikely, but it is possible they can both "timewalk" using that other realm.

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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by lorddunlow »

I was really confused when I read BugsySig's response until I realized I skipped the second page of comments before I posted and missed that grendeljd beat me to the theory.
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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by ShadowTuga »

greg wrote:Strong similarities now between the Boon and Master Darque... symbology, blue color, swirling circles, death/life, and the two realms of existence, special requirements for "crossing over".
The Boon takes life energy (makes death) and concentrates it... obviously, Master Darque is interested in death, power, most likely immortality.

Seems pretty clear that something is being set up separately that will eventually come together.

I joked that Master Darque could be a really old Ivar... unlikely, but it is possible they can both "timewalk" using that other realm.
A&A/Shadowman crossover down the line, perhaps? :hm:
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Re: ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 4 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

ShadowTuga wrote:
greg wrote:Strong similarities now between the Boon and Master Darque... symbology, blue color, swirling circles, death/life, and the two realms of existence, special requirements for "crossing over".
The Boon takes life energy (makes death) and concentrates it... obviously, Master Darque is interested in death, power, most likely immortality.

Seems pretty clear that something is being set up separately that will eventually come together.

I joked that Master Darque could be a really old Ivar... unlikely, but it is possible they can both "timewalk" using that other realm.
A&A/Shadowman crossover down the line, perhaps? :hm:
Seems likely.

Good ideas, Greg - remember the old Shadowman tale where Darque was forcing him to time-travel in order to build up necromantic energy? I think it's quite likely we'll see a less cheesy update to the concept via a strong link between the 'netherworld' or 'Deadside' of the Valiant Universe and whatever it is that the Boon draws energy from. :thumb:
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