Harbinger: Heavy politics in comic books.

[hawkeyeps]

Yeah well we're Canadian, just ask us how much we hate our "socialized medicine"......crickets

Yeah the "socialized" medicine has been SO terrible to me. Last year I got diagnosed with a rare blood disease SUPER fast...faster than almost every other patient i've talked to online and managed to avoid many complications because of it. Most of the other people had to have kidney transplants at the very least. And then I got about 1.2 million dollars worth of treatment. THEN I ended up with a tumor on my right calf which also was not serious because of super quick diagnosis. What's cool about that one is I have a question mark shaped scar on my calf...my RIDDLER scar!

Amen Brother, I wonder how your expierence was compared to Squirell's?

I'm pretty lucky and have not needed much in the way of big medical but I don't mind paying taxes for the system and really wouldn't have it any other way.

You should not be financially destroyed just because you get sick and any one who needs health care should get it. It's bad enough to worry about your illness, you shouldn't have to worry about finances at the same time.

My heart goes out to our American brothers and sisters about this, it must be like living under the sword of Damacles, never knowing when it's going to drop and ruin you.

Not being able to quit a job you hate because you (or your kids) need the insurance, having some home office beurocrat decide your fate or the fate of your loved ones all in the name of profit for the insurance company.

America is supposed to be about freedom yet this system enslaves everybody to the big insurance companies and you got to know those guys have lobbyists all over government so their dirty little scam remains in tact. It's sick, it makes me really sad.

Rant over

Re: Harbinger- I hope Kris kicks all kinds of *SQUEE* and I think she will, if Rush Limbaugh doesn't like it he can suck it!

[Carson]

this happens to be Kris' point of view

Not coincidentally, it happens to be Dysart's point of view. And he goes very far out of his way to bang the reader over the head with it.

Nobody casually name drops "Capitalism: A Structural Genocide" into a comic book.

Like when Kris whines about her "devalued house". Yes, Kris, prices go up and down with market forces. If they only went up you'd be whining about how the working man can't afford to put a roof over his head.

The drivel is in like every third panel.

And speaking of over priced goods, I've been waiting for a good moment to whine a little myself:

$4 for a 22-page comic is outrageous. Where are they putting all this filthy lucre? Not in banks I hope. Social justice demands that the janitor be compensated for his toil on an equal basis with famous comic book authors. Forward! Comic book readers of the world, Unite!

Are you kidding me? These creators are not overpaid.

In fact they are underpaid. They have true talent and make very little for their dedication efforts in the medium.

Put these same creative minds in advertising (my industry) or video games and they'd make much more.

They are here for the love of comics and we are lucky to have them.

Cough up your $4 and quit whining.

:smacktalk:

[MarkRoseHFX]

Amen Brother, I wonder how your expierence was compared to Squirell's?

I don't know much about Squirrel's situation but whatever it is I hope he's ok. My condition was very serious for a few months until they got approval to give me 4 doses of a $30,000 drug to put it into remission. About 5 weeks ago I finally started to feel like me again both physically and mentally so i'm doing great now i'm almost completely 100%.

I'm pretty lucky and have not needed much in the way of big medical but I don't mind paying taxes for the system and really wouldn't have it any other way.

You should not be financially destroyed just because you get sick and any one who needs health care should get it. It's bad enough to worry about your illness, you shouldn't have to worry about finances at the same time.

We live in a great country sir but certainly not perfect. As far as the healthcare goes I was treated great. But as far as getting money to live that's another story. I'll have a lot more to say about that in the future when I launch my webcomic. If you read it you'll be disgusted with what I had to go through just be able to pay rent and eat.

And as far as the other stuff goes we're not much different than the americans. Especially under the Harper government. We just get screwed in different ways.

[Chiclo]

I agree with yous BugsySig, and what I highlighted in your post Ayn Rand would not be amused. I am calling it some one on Pete's Squad will be an Objectivist. Not really but hey wouldn't surprise me.

Harbinger crossover with Mr. A! MAKE IT HAPPEN!

I would love to see some ideological diversity in these comics. An objectivist would bring an uncommon point of view into the comic.

[Kurokashi-san]

When one of your characters is a wealthy industrialist, you have to expect some talk of capitalism to creep into the story. I’m sure if editorial felt Mr. Dysart was using Harbinger as a soapbox to push his own political views, issue #6 would have never seen print in its current form.

[MoonChild]

This thread can go on forever so I opt out and just say Dysart Kicks Everyone's *SQUEE* when it comes to comics. He can express his point of view all he wants in these books for all I care. He shouldn't even have to be sensitive about it. Just let the dude do his thing without hinderance. So far, so GREAT.

[Spylocke]

While I haven't read the issue in question yet I'll chime in since politics in comics is kind of interesting.
Me, I value subtlety. As long as I'm not treated to a long soliloquy where it is obvious the character is being a mouthpiece for the author I'm okay.

I don't think Pete and Harada are political mouthpieces so much as philosophical. Maybe I'm misreading it or I'm just pretentious but I think it's more about the dueling philosophies of deontological ethics and consequentialism. Pete believes that certain things are right and wrong no matter what while Harada is more focused on the results.

I think these rival philosophies as well the age and culture (perhaps social) gaps are the points of contention rather than politics.

Something to keep in mind would be that Pete and Kris are both fairly sheltered and once their horizons are broadened a little so will their beliefs.

[pixierosa]

I don't think there is a political agenda here. It's Kris' point of view. The books on her shelf are personality indicators, same as that Buzzcocks poster on the wall. It makes sense for her to sneer at the regime, given her family circumstances and her youth. (remember being a teenager? Having little faith or trust in the system?)

It doesnt matter if Dysart agrees with Kris' viewpoints. Writing doesnt need to be autobiographical. And if a writer can't use current topics and opposing viewpoints in their work, then freedom of expression is worthless.

[somewhatlazy]

Not a fan. You pick a side, you lose readers. I'm not crazy about the notion of supporting anti-capitalist pop culture.

Where would VEI be today without all those bad bad evil venture capitalists? Free enterprise has served them pretty well, I can't see why Dysart is allowed to *SQUEE* all over it. And the movies. Gonna be paid for with a government bailout fund?

Maybe we can have the government liquidate frivolous things like comic book companies to provide free Flonase to everyone.

The comic book industry as a whole tends to lean left and/or liberal, and you can lean left and still be a capitalist.

[Carson]

Not a fan. You pick a side, you lose readers. I'm not crazy about the notion of supporting anti-capitalist pop culture.

Where would VEI be today without all those bad bad evil venture capitalists? Free enterprise has served them pretty well, I can't see why Dysart is allowed to *SQUEE* all over it. And the movies. Gonna be paid for with a government bailout fund?

Maybe we can have the government liquidate frivolous things like comic book companies to provide free Flonase to everyone.

The comic book industry as a whole tends to lean left and/or liberal, and you can lean left and still be a capitalist.

Have you guys read Frank Miller's latest anti-terrorism book called "holy terror"?

Holy Terror "follows a superhero named the Fixer as he battles Muslim terrorists after an attack on Empire City. Miller has described the book as "a piece of propaganda", and claimed that it is "bound to offend just about everybody." -Wikipedia

Well, Frank is right. Very right. Read his blog, check out his interviews. He's anything but liberal.

So, the industry has at least one extremely powerful conservative advocate.

I agree with what a few have already said, we are hearing Kris' views in #7, and yes she's a sheltered liberal kid that might come closer tithe middle as she ages and learns more, but she'll probably always be a vocal liberal. I do hope Dysart gives her a counter. I'm hoping that might be Torque and she'll love him despite his politics.

[somewhatlazy]

Not a fan. You pick a side, you lose readers. I'm not crazy about the notion of supporting anti-capitalist pop culture.

Where would VEI be today without all those bad bad evil venture capitalists? Free enterprise has served them pretty well, I can't see why Dysart is allowed to *SQUEE* all over it. And the movies. Gonna be paid for with a government bailout fund?

Maybe we can have the government liquidate frivolous things like comic book companies to provide free Flonase to everyone.

The comic book industry as a whole tends to lean left and/or liberal, and you can lean left and still be a capitalist.

Have you guys read Frank Miller's latest anti-terrorism book called "holy terror"?

Holy Terror "follows a superhero named the Fixer as he battles Muslim terrorists after an attack on Empire City. Miller has described the book as "a piece of propaganda", and claimed that it is "bound to offend just about everybody." -Wikipedia

Well, Frank is right. Very right. Read his blog, check out his interviews. He's anything but liberal.

So, the industry has at least one extremely powerful conservative advocate.

I agree with what a few have already said, we are hearing Kris' views in #7, and yes she's a sheltered liberal kid that might come closer tithe middle as she ages and learns more, but she'll probably always be a vocal liberal. I do hope Dysart gives her a counter. I'm hoping that might be Torque and she'll love him despite his politics.

Miller is an outspoken outlier.

[Tim]

I wasn't really crazy about the writing in Holy Terror, as well as most anything Frank Miller has done, but I really liked the art. At times it felt like he was just scribbling frantically and trying to just get something in the panels. It makes for a very visceral experience. Reminds me a lot of underground comix, where the point you're trying to get across and the tone you're trying to convey is more important than any technical prowess or skill.

[Chiclo]

Not a fan. You pick a side, you lose readers. I'm not crazy about the notion of supporting anti-capitalist pop culture.

Where would VEI be today without all those bad bad evil venture capitalists? Free enterprise has served them pretty well, I can't see why Dysart is allowed to *SQUEE* all over it. And the movies. Gonna be paid for with a government bailout fund?

Maybe we can have the government liquidate frivolous things like comic book companies to provide free Flonase to everyone.

The comic book industry as a whole tends to lean left and/or liberal, and you can lean left and still be a capitalist.

Have you guys read Frank Miller's latest anti-terrorism book called "holy terror"?

Holy Terror "follows a superhero named the Fixer as he battles Muslim terrorists after an attack on Empire City. Miller has described the book as "a piece of propaganda", and claimed that it is "bound to offend just about everybody." -Wikipedia

Well, Frank is right. Very right. Read his blog, check out his interviews. He's anything but liberal.

So, the industry has at least one extremely powerful conservative advocate.

I agree with what a few have already said, we are hearing Kris' views in #7, and yes she's a sheltered liberal kid that might come closer tithe middle as she ages and learns more, but she'll probably always be a vocal liberal. I do hope Dysart gives her a counter. I'm hoping that might be Torque and she'll love him despite his politics.

I had about a half hour conversation with Billy Tucci about a week before the election. He is very specifically not a left-winger.

I know Mike Grell is a firearms enthusiast. I think I have heard he is a right-winger too.

Any artistic field is going to be dominated by left-wing thinkers. It just seems like there are more left-wing artists that right wing.

[depluto]

Try telling that to Hitler!

<I don't even know what that means, I just think it is a good thing to shout into a political conversation>

[FormerReader]

Try telling that to Hitler!

<I don't even know what that means, I just think it is a good thing to shout into a political conversation>

[SJS4]

jmatt I think you were/are looking to find something to be mad about, and so you found it.

I would suggest trying to read comics books as entertainment rather than looking for political statements in them.

[myron]

jmatt I think you were/are looking to find something to be mad about, and so you found it.

I would suggest trying to read comics books as entertainment rather than looking for political statements in them.

+1

[Donovan]

jmatt I think you were/are looking to find something to be mad about, and so you found it.

I would suggest trying to read comics books as entertainment rather than looking for political statements in them.

+1

+2

[FormerReader]

I hate politicians. They're all corrupt *SQUEE*!

[greg]

I hate politicians. They're all corrupt *SQUEE*!

If 'pro' is the opposite of 'con', then what is the opposite of 'progress'?

[FormerReader]

I hate politicians. They're all corrupt *SQUEE*!

If 'pro' is the opposite of 'con', then what is the opposite of 'progress'?

Very clever!

I wish things were different in how this country was run, but I've learned things don't change from one party to the other. For this reason I stay away from politics and try to fix the things in my life that I have control over.

[Elveen]

I'll chime in with this. (I'm not addressing this towards anyone at all, just adding to the thread)

I've been fortunate to spend some time with Josh and have had more than a few conversations with him and IMO Dysart is super talented and a borderline genius for what he can bring to the medium. what are his personal politics? Not sure. What I am sure of is that he is a creator. He is creating characters that form the thick and rich tapestry that is Harbinger. Does the Bleeding Monk show his politics or his slant or his views or his perspective? Not sure. Is the Monk a great original character that I am super interested in? Heck yes! Does Joe or Amanda or Hidden Moon or Ingrid show his "politics"? Not sure, but I think they are great characters.

I can say with absolute certainty that everything he does is on purpose. Does that mean that I think Kris is his way to stuff his personal views into the story? Not sure? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't care. Honestly, when I read the book I loved the story and I think that Kris just became one of the strongest characters in the entire book, if not the universe. If I ever feel that I'm being preached to and I don't like it...... then I'll be $4 richer per month.

By spending time talking to him, in just a casual conversational way, the dude is way passionate and way smart
The dude went and spent like 3 weeks (I think) in Africa with the children soldiers before he wrote Unknown solider. Think about that.

This is the kind of enthusiasm and energy he is bringing to the book. Have I agreed with everything he has put into the book? No. (check the podcast, I'm on record with these points. Heck I brought it up again in last night's recording) Do I agree with teenage (or any age) drug use? No. Do I agree with the yet-to-be-exactly-determined forced encounter between Kris and Pete? No. Do I love the story? Yes. I don't have to agree with everything I read, if I did, I can only think of one book I could probably read.

Again, not attacking anyone, but if Josh is putting his politics into the book....... then like Lincoln answered when told that US Grant was a lush..... everyone should be putting Josh's politics into their book. I'm loving Harbinger. It's not exactly what I would have done or would do..... it's better than my ideas.

I think this is a great thread and I miss this type of open and honest discussion on this board.

[Dr. Solar]

It's despicable.

Josh is ramming these politics down my throat by writing a character that has these thoughts about politics in a way that is very realistic for a character of that age, demographic, and intelligence.

It's also despicable how he is forcing his literary tastes on me, because Faith liked Hunger Games and Harry Potter. I can't tolerate a comic that so blatantly pushes a literary agenda like that. I disagree with the preferences of that fictional character!

And the worst of all is his support of the steel pipe industry. When Peter smashed Hidden Moon's face in with a steel pipe, I couldn't believe how much he was pushing forward his "steel pipe" agenda. I bet he owns stock in various pipe manufacturing corporations.

Pfffft!

[Elveen]

And the worst of all is his support of the steel pipe industry. When Peter smashed Hidden Moon's face in with a steel pipe, I couldn't believe how much he was pushing forward his "steel pipe" agenda. I bet he owns stock in various pipe manufacturing corporations.

Pfffft!

I had the same anger when I first played the game Clue as a child.

[BugsySig]

And the worst of all is his support of the steel pipe industry. When Peter smashed Hidden Moon's face in with a steel pipe, I couldn't believe how much he was pushing forward his "steel pipe" agenda. I bet he owns stock in various pipe manufacturing corporations.

Pfffft!

I had the same anger when I first played the game Clue as a child.

Not as bad as Super Mario Bros. blatant pro-plumbing union communist propaganda.