Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps #18 Discussion

[sonicdan]

I enjoyed this issue. Got some nice background on PRS and some reasoning behind them abandoning the original H.A.R.D. Corps program in favor of going
after Psiots instead. The Specialists team were pretty gnarly. Sharpshooter really does a number on Bloodshot....with glee!
I like that they brought back Big Boy and that there's a bad history with Palmer. Scary cliffhanger for Palmer too, btw.
Granite walking in on Flatline and Genuis was funny as was Vagabon lighting up during the briefing.
Bart Sears art is a little extreme but it works here and I can dig it. The flashback art by Chris Cross is good too.
It's way better when they switch art for flashbacks instead of abruptly changing it mid-story due to deadlines.
This was the first one in my read pile and probably my favorite issue that came out today. I'm looking forward to the next issue!
DAN

[sonicdan]

Get some!

[pixierosa]

This was first on my read list, too Dan summed it up pretty well - enjoyed the background on PRS and Oreck. His team of psychopaths... eeek. Love that they have a history with Palmer, and it's not a history of respect and teamwork. Plus, seeing how they have transformed physically over the years - they seem about as successful as the Chainsaw group.

Interesting about Granite being senior recruit - what about Disciple? I like how she stood her ground with Palmer, but she's misguided. Hopefully Kozol won't screw over her family. Looks like Genius and Flatline are in the same boat as Palmer. Wondering how that will play out. Does he want the actual hardware or just to study it? I'm assuming that the building blocking download transmissions will also block explosion commands from headquarters. Seems to me that rather than torturing Palmer and company, they could just put them into a coma and be able to study the hardware. The whole "wishing you were dead" thing seems more like something done as torture/personal vendetta, which doesn't seem to fit the Oreck/Palmer history. Makes for a good ending, though.

[hawkeyeps]

It was also at the top of my read pile, I loved the story development with the flashbacks and Vagabond's ridiculous pinner moment (Cheech- Oops, wait that's my dick. Chong- I hope your dick is bigger than that man )

I actually preferred Cross's art to Sears, I was kind of excited about it but it really wasn't that good. I always liked early Sears better than late Sears which is a really weird way for an artist to go.

I would give this issue a 3.5/5 which is good but a bit of a slip as this book was my #1 for the last few months, I think Shadowman was the best book this week.

[jmatt]

First one I read too. That cover is just awesome (it's the one I saw hanging in Warren's office during our NYCC visit to the VEI headquarters).

The opening to the battle was a little disconcerting. Big Boy came out of nowhere. Was he playing dead in the pile of bodies like Chernobyl? The Specialists are much cooler than Chainsaw.

"Baby?" Could Big Boy have detected that Flatline is pregnant mere hours after her fling with Genius?

Big Boy is the perfect character for Bart Sears to draw. His predilection for giant cleft chins and pouty lips was reasonably kept in check.

Not crazy about all the extra marketing cover dress, though. But a great issue, loved the PRS/HardCorps backstory.

[pixierosa]

First one I read too. That cover is just awesome (it's the one I saw hanging in Warren's office during our NYCC visit to the VEI headquarters).

The opening to the battle was a little disconcerting. Big Boy came out of nowhere. Was he playing dead in the pile of bodies like Chernobyl? The Specialists are much cooler than Chainsaw.

"Baby?" Could Big Boy have detected that Flatline is pregnant mere hours after her fling with Genius?

Big Boy is the perfect character for Bart Sears to draw. His predilection for giant cleft chins and pouty lips was reasonably kept in check.

Not crazy about all the extra marketing cover dress, though. But a great issue, loved the PRS/HardCorps backstory.

I wondered about the placement of the others, but Sharpshooter was hidden and ready to snipe, so Big Boy was prob nearby but under cover.

I think they're cooler than Chainsaw, too, but like Chainsaw, they are a failed experiment in their own way. Grotesque and lacking humanity.

"Baby" -- BB was referring to his girlfriend, Sharpshooter. He said he'd been in a relationship for a long time (since the team began, likely) and he said that in reaction to Palmer blasting her off of Bloodshot.

Like Hawk, I preferred Chris Cross's art in this book.

[Zaphod]

The most interesting part of the story was the flashback. That is kinda sad. The story telling feels more like later Valiant than Pre-Unity Valiant. No character development, inadequate build-up. Oreck actually summed up my feeling about the title succinctly. It is simply a meat grinder.

Sadly the promise that Swierczynski started with in his first arc has all given way to rushed story arcs with very little substance.

Done with this title for now. With some hope, I'll be back if things improve.

[lorddunlow]

Sadly the promise that Swierczynski started with in his first arc has all given way to rushed story arcs with very little substance.

I definitely agree with this statement. Bloodshot had become my #1 VEI book right before the addition of HARD Corps. Now it's a totally different book. I like this book, and will continue reading it, but I'm really hoping we get the Bloodshot solo title back. There was a great mystery that was hinted at in #0 that has just been stalled out. This current book is a fun read, but lacks any depth like the Swierczynski run had.

Early Bloodshot was akin to an indie film with lots of subtlety and lead to multiple interpretations. This book is a Michael Bay film. I like both, but I kinda want the former back in this title.

I give the art a 7/10.

[apainter]

I'm a bit mixed on this issue. I liked some of the character moments, but the action and the new characters recalled the worst of the Image era comics scene. The part I particularly disliked was the two page splash with introductory headshots of the Specialists. It just looked so corny.

I remember a harbinger called "Big Boy" from old Valiant. Did any of the others (Coldwar, Sharpshooter, Chernobyl) have previous incarnations?

I was surprised that Genius' teammates don't know about his "condition". I just assumed they all knew each others' background.

So does Bloodshot know his history now? Kozol turned over some files to him, didn't he? Will we find out what's in them?

Art

[bygranddesign]

I thought it was a pretty good issue

I thought there were some strong moments:

The opening scene between Kozol and Oreck was one of the better written scenes involving Kozol. Sometimes he comes off as a little too weak - here he was authoritative and as someone you would expect to be running a secret, powerful organization (until Oreck of course wipes out his men)

The scene between Flatline, Genius and Granite was sweet and funny.

I like the splash page introducing "The Specialists". Not crazy about the name but the characters are pretty cool. The whole comic had a 90's flare about it - I guess that comes with Bart Sears doing the art - and especially that splash page felt very old school - pretty cheesy but I enjoyed it.

But what I didn't think was strong was Bloodshot and the recruits high tailing it out of there leaving Palmer behind. (did he learn this from Kara?)

Bloodshot is this awesome powerful weapon, perfect killing machine ... and he is retreating from battle? Seriously? From a bunch of 2nd rate Mutant Villains?

I could understand it if they were outnumbered by a horde of evil mutants but they outnumbered them! Bloodshot is concerned about the lives of the recruits but not Major Palmer? Who he would have to expect would be a DEFINITE goner by leaving him there. I know Palmer told Bloodshot to take them and leave ... but why would he listen to him?

Maybe if HARD Corps lost lifeline and didn't have their powers anymore .. then they would be completely useless and it would make sense to back off until they got back online but that wasn't the case. A quick retreat followed by a new attack plan would have made more sense.

The other explanation is that Bloodshot is half the machine he used to be ... but I would have expected with the re-absorption of the missing nanite blood he would be back close to 100%. In either case, He should be putting up a better fight than that.

[Brother Darque]

PRS and H.A.R.D. Corps are for hire?

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

First issue I read this week too. Very happy with the Bart Sears art, and pleasantly surprised by the Chris Cross art too!
To me, this was a very meaty issue, lots in it. I really enjoyed it. Return of Big Boy? Awesome!
Would love to hear what Genius was about to confess before "....and penis" happened. a little carrot dangling for us readers, and no double entendre intended there!
Really enjoyed this issue. Looking forward to more Gage/Dysart/Sears/Cross!

[BugsySig]

I thought this was a pretty good issue. I liked the twist of Kozol returning, and overall it reminded me more of those early Bloodshot shoot em up issues.

It definitely had a 90s feel to it, but I think that was purposeful in two ways: the fact that Bart Sears was on art duties and the idea of "The Specialists" being PRS's own 90s rejects.

My overall problem is that this book should just be called "HARD Corps". Bloodshot has been rendered basically useless in the book through two arcs. I really hope the two titles split soon and Bloodshot gets the spotlight again.

PRS and H.A.R.D. Corps are for hire?

PRS is part of Rising Spirit Securities, which I believe is private. They are a military contractor.

[lorddunlow]

My overall problem is that this book should just be called "HARD Corps". Bloodshot has been rendered basically useless in the book through two arcs. I really hope the two titles split soon and Bloodshot gets the spotlight again.

I could not agree with this statement more!

[Brother Darque]

PRS and H.A.R.D. Corps are for hire?

PRS is part of Rising Spirit Securities, which I believe is private. They are a military contractor.

oh, I forgot that. thanks.

[rpellech83]

Hey jmatt. You went on the tour too.

[jmatt]

"Baby" -- BB was referring to his girlfriend, Sharpshooter. He said he'd been in a relationship for a long time (since the team began, likely) and he said that in reaction to Palmer blasting her off of Bloodshot.

I didn't catch that she was the girlfriend he was refering to. Never mind.

[iwantvaliant]

This was H.A.R.D. Corps #5. It was good. I'm not a fan of Bart Sears but he didn't detract too much from the book. I would've read this book first this week but my wife wanted to read it first.

[bygranddesign]

My overall problem is that this book should just be called "HARD Corps". Bloodshot has been rendered basically useless in the book through two arcs. I really hope the two titles split soon and Bloodshot gets the spotlight again.

I could not agree with this statement more!

I'm wondering if the eventual split of this title will lead to a relaunch of Bloodshot.

If Bloodshot gets "destroyed" at some point ... Maybe a new person will take the mantle of bloodshot and that would be a good opportunity to relaunch the title.

Even if a relaunch is not in the cards any time soon, issue 25 you would figure will be a huge turning point for the title with issue 26 being a new direction. I think it's a good bet that issue 25 is the end of the bloodshot and hard corp marriage.

[SJS4]

Enjoyed the issue. I dug the Sears art, would be happy to see him on a title full time. Is he still a full time artist?

Agree with the previous posts that that this is no longer bloodshot's book. This is a shame for me because Bloodshot had become my favorite title prior to Harbinger Wars. In the meantime i am enjoying Duane's run on "X" over at Dark Horse, but i wish he had stuck with Bloodshot.

[Bl00dsh0t]

I enjoyed this issue. Got some nice background on PRS and some reasoning behind them abandoning the original H.A.R.D. Corps program in favor of going
after Psiots instead. The Specialists team were pretty gnarly. Sharpshooter really does a number on Bloodshot....with glee!
I like that they brought back Big Boy and that there's a bad history with Palmer. Scary cliffhanger for Palmer too, btw.
Granite walking in on Flatline and Genuis was funny as was Vagabon lighting up during the briefing.
Bart Sears art is a little extreme but it works here and I can dig it. The flashback art by Chris Cross is good too.
It's way better when they switch art for flashbacks instead of abruptly changing it mid-story due to deadlines.
This was the first one in my read pile and probably my favorite issue that came out today. I'm looking forward to the next issue!
DAN

Yep, what you said.

I hope The Specialists hang around longer than the other villians that have appeared in Bloodhsot so far (Lysander, Gamma, Chainsaw). Of those The Specialists have some longer term value imho (as I thought did Gamma - at least we get to see her in Archer #0)

Great issue - loved Sears on the book, I think he fits it perfectly. Gave Blooshot and Palmer more of a macho feel which I think they need

[Scarlet-Batman]

Team books are about connecting characters personalities and histories to find similarities and differences that can be used to create interesting stories. Solo books are about drilling down into a single character's personality and history to create conflicts (both physical and mental) that fuel interesting stories. In a lot of ways they are diametrically opposed approaches, so it is completely understandable that some people who loved the Bloodshot solo are put off by BatHC.

I want a Bloodshot solo and a Hard Corps book. The marriage has been OK at best. Don't get me wrong, the book is solid but it just isn't quite what I want when I see Bloodshot's name. Having said that, I don't know how successful the Hard Corps would be without Bloodshot to anchor the title.

As for this issue specifically, man, I felt like I had been transported back to the 90's. There's a reason that whole decade is practically shunned! I like the idea behind the Specialists, they really help fill in some blanks spots in the PRS's weapon development program. The penis joke had me on the floor. I wonder what Genius' secret is. I hope Palmer can be saved, he's me favorite Hard Corps member!

[DirtbagSailor]

I'm actually digging the Bloodshot / HARD Corps connection and story progression. True, BOTH could exist on their own with their own comic, but together it sort of fits.

Palmer has strong enough characterization and an interesting enough back story that his presence compliments the series. Bloodshot is obviously a superior killing machine, however, you can't fake or program extensive knowledge of that grey-area that exists between black and white that comes from years of seeing both sides of battle like Palmer has.

Many of the HARD Corps (if not most...) are expendable and/disposable (with exception perhaps of Palmer). This is good, because how many "teams" in comicbook history have existed without threat of casualty or loss? Even lame characters in MARVEL, DC, & IMAGE often lasted YEARS, whereas the members of HARD Corps can (and do) die frequently. It's sort of like GAME OF THRONES in that you really can't predict what will actually happen or who might die.

By himself, Bloodshot will kill and destroy quite well. But by making him part of a team with their own collection of demons and backstory, it adds additional depth to Bloodshot as a whole. It make his character now have to consider the lives and welfare of his comrades, as well his own. He must weigh the lives of his men vs that of the mission. When it comes down to it, these are the difference between a "Great Soldier" vs a "Great Leader."

Without a team to consider, Soldier's lives to value, and how Bloodshot weighs the opinions of others (e.g. Palmer), it would be difficult to show how he develops as a character over time.

Much like Wolverine or Batman, Bloodshot needs time on his own, and will likely get that. BUT, also like Wolverine or Batman, much of who he is, and who he WILL become is tied to his team.

[hunter_peterson]

I'm actually digging the Bloodshot / HARD Corps connection and story progression. True, BOTH could exist on their own with their own comic, but together it sort of fits.

Palmer has strong enough characterization and an interesting enough back story that his presence compliments the series. Bloodshot is obviously a superior killing machine, however, you can't fake or program extensive knowledge of that grey-area that exists between black and white that comes from years of seeing both sides of battle like Palmer has.

Many of the HARD Corps (if not most...) are expendable and/disposable (with exception perhaps of Palmer). This is good, because how many "teams" in comicbook history have existed without threat of casualty or loss? Even lame characters in MARVEL, DC, & IMAGE often lasted YEARS, whereas the members of HARD Corps can (and do) die frequently. It's sort of like GAME OF THRONES in that you really can't predict what will actually happen or who might die.

By himself, Bloodshot will kill and destroy quite well. But by making him part of a team with their own collection of demons and backstory, it adds additional depth to Bloodshot as a whole. It make his character now have to consider the lives and welfare of his comrades, as well his own. He must weigh the lives of his men vs that of the mission. When it comes down to it, these are the difference between a "Great Soldier" vs a "Great Leader."

Without a team to consider, Soldier's lives to value, and how Bloodshot weighs the opinions of others (e.g. Palmer), it would be difficult to show how he develops as a character over time.

Much like Wolverine or Batman, Bloodshot needs time on his own, and will likely get that. BUT, also like Wolverine or Batman, much of who he is, and who he WILL become is tied to his team.

What you said about Bloodshot's leadership would be more salient if he was actually leading the team. Palmer is leading HARDCorps, Bloodshot is working with Palmer. It's not really that kind of situation.

I liked this issue a lot, but do miss having Bloodshot be the main character. I also hope they split after Mission Improbable. Not because I'm not enjoying this book a lot; I think it's better than it was pre-HW, but the two halves of this book really want to have their own spaces to manoeuvre in. Palmer, Lifeline and Kozol are enough to anchor a HARDCorps series to me and I'd love to see that sooner rather than later.

[jmatt]

Having said that, I don't know how successful the Hard Corps would be without Bloodshot to anchor the title.

Yeah, well, that's the $64,000 question, isn't it? I'm not sure if it's ready to stand on it's own two feet.