Archer & Armstrong #21 Discussion

[BugsySig]

Another great issue...when all is said and done, FVL's run on this series should be considered a classic.

The big reveal was very predictable at this point to most of us. Mother of Mothers, Mother Superior Mary-Maria is Archer's mother. And seeing as she was pregnant before entering the Hotel California, the only likely candidate thus far for Archer's father is Armstrong.

If this is the case, one does have to wonder: Are Obie and/or Aram Psiots or something else? We've theorized the Anni-Pada brothers are Psiots because of Aram's strength, Ivar's intelligence/technopath and Gilad's fighting skills, all before the Boon. But it's also possible they, and specifically Aram and Mary Maria, are something else entirely. With two immortal parents, it's easy to see why Archer is "Infinite." His birth perhaps taking place in the hotel, with proximity to the wheel, could explain his ability to access a higher plane without being a Psiot. This would also explain why his eyes don't glow a la other Psiots.

[Ramses818]

If he is the father than I would say no Obie is not a Psiot, as Ivar mentioned it was not even his body but rather a imitation with this consciousness. That would open up some rather wild ideas depending on your sci-fi beliefs..lol.

[Keith]

Another great issue...when all is said and done, FVL's run on this series should be considered a classic.

The big reveal was very predictable at this point to most of us. Mother of Mothers, Mother Superior Mary-Maria is Archer's mother. And seeing as she was pregnant before entering the Hotel California, the only likely candidate thus far for Archer's father is Armstrong.

If this is the case, one does have to wonder: Are Obie and/or Aram Psiots or something else? We've theorized the Anni-Pada brothers are Psiots because of Aram's strength, Ivar's intelligence/technopath and Gilad's fighting skills, all before the Boon. But it's also possible they, and specifically Aram and Mary Maria, are something else entirely. With two immortal parents, it's easy to see why Archer is "Infinite." His birth perhaps taking place in the hotel, with proximity to the wheel, could explain his ability to access a higher plane without being a Psiot. This would also explain why his eyes don't glow a la other Psiots.

Great assessment, Bugsy.

The clue drops in this issue are significant and all but scream out "SHE'S HIS MOM!!" without actually saying it.

I hadn't considered that the Anni-Pada's might be psiots before the Boon. The do seem to be awfully exceptional examples of humanity, if not. I'm of the opinion that the Boon fundamentally changed Aram, hence Ivar's comment about his nanite body. Did it have the same impact on Mary-Maria, or to lesser scale, and can either be called "Human" any more? And what would that make Obadiah? Surely PRS would have picked up on abnormailities while they had him. It does appear that he is like a Psiot, but perhaps for different reasons than a Toyo Harada or Peter Stancheck., making him truly unique.

But all in all, a great issue and this continues to shape up as a fantastic arc. Valiant needs to do whatever it takes to keep Fred Van Lente writing for them. Looking forward to The Delinquents, but I am hoping we get news soon on a Timewalker or Geomancer ongoing series!

[BugsySig]

If he is the father than I would say no Obie is not a Psiot, as Ivar mentioned it was not even his body but rather a imitation with this consciousness. That would open up some rather wild ideas depending on your sci-fi beliefs..lol.

Ivar was rather confused when he made that statement, having just left the time stream, so we can't be sure that he was referring to Aram's current body or a future event. If he and Mary-Maria are both Nanite replicas, though, they could have produced a Nanite child with its own consciousness.

On another note...MM has aged quite a bit, but considering she was infused with at least a few hundred years worth of souls by the Boon or may be a Nanite body, that doesn't seem to fit. Of course, in a place like the Hotel, time may have no meaning and she could have potentially been there for thousands of years (she does say, "you have no idea how long").

[Phoenix8008]

If he is the father than I would say no Obie is not a Psiot, as Ivar mentioned it was not even his body but rather a imitation with this consciousness. That would open up some rather wild ideas depending on your sci-fi beliefs..lol.

Ivar was rather confused when he made that statement, having just left the time stream, so we can't be sure that he was referring to Aram's current body or a future event. If he and Mary-Maria are both Nanite replicas, though, they could have produced a Nanite child with its own consciousness.

On another note...MM has aged quite a bit, but considering she was infused with at least a few hundred years worth of souls by the Boon or may be a Nanite body, that doesn't seem to fit. Of course, in a place like the Hotel, time may have no meaning and she could have potentially been there for thousands of years (she does say, "you have no idea how long").

Having left from the Faraway, who knows WHEN she came back to before taking up residence in the hotel. Can't wait to see this issue!

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

The splash page of Bruce and Brandon Lee is extraordinary. One of my favorite pages of a comic I have seen in a loong looong time!
Loving this arc, and title.

[bygranddesign]

WOW! WOW! WOW! - best issue of the week!!

Well said by Bugsy - FVL has put together a classic run with this series! It is so well thought out from beginning to end. So carefully constructed and brilliantly executed. Yes - The reveal was obvious by the end but I'm happy to see it come to fruition! Kudos to GREG who I believe first made the prediction that Mary-Maria was his mother - way back at around the 12th issue!

I'm still not 100% convinced its going to be Armstrong as the father. It definitely points that way - but a lot of time could have passed before Mary-Maria got stuck in the hotel - it could have been Ivar. (i'm going to hold on to that prediction until its 100% proven false )

Lets not forget Pere Perez.

Wow! He absolutely kicked *SQUEE* this issue!!!

Some amazing splash pages and action sequences... really top notch job.

David Barons colors were sweet.

FVL was masterful - funny and smart writing that provided lots to chew on. Yum. Yum.

[bribri]

I'm not convinced Mary Maria is Archer's mother. As Archer kicks down the door he says, "I am not leaving this hotel without the wheel...or my...mother..."

Mary Maria does not confirm or deny their relationship. She simply turns around and says hello. And then we get the cliff-hanger...

My prediction:
The wheel is Archer's "mother".

[dornwolf]

I can't believe that crazy theory could possibly be right. Also love how there is a Oswald for every theory.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

I'm not convinced Mary Maria is Archer's mother. As Archer kicks down the door he says, "I am not leaving this hotel without the wheel...or my...mother..."

Mary Maria does not confirm or deny their relationship. She simply turns around and says hello. And then we get the cliff-hanger...

My prediction:
The wheel is Archer's "mother".

I'm thinking along the lines of this less obvious twist as well.

[mateo107]

I can't believe that crazy theory could possibly be right. Also love how there is a Oswald for every theory.

similarly, is this Mary-Maria only there because of the people who believe that theory?

[BugsySig]

I can't believe that crazy theory could possibly be right. Also love how there is a Oswald for every theory.

similarly, is this Mary-Maria only there because of the people who believe that theory?

Mind. Blown.

[kjjohanson]

I can't believe that crazy theory could possibly be right. Also love how there is a Oswald for every theory.

similarly, is this Mary-Maria only there because of the people who believe that theory?

[kjjohanson]

I can't believe that crazy theory could possibly be right. Also love how there is a Oswald for every theory.

similarly, is this Mary-Maria only there because of the people who believe that theory?

I gotta say that that would so be in line with what FVL has been doing with this series. And moreso what I have come to expect from him than if it's as simple as MM is Archer's mother.

[dornwolf]

I can't believe that crazy theory could possibly be right. Also love how there is a Oswald for every theory.

similarly, is this Mary-Maria only there because of the people who believe that theory?

Damn that's deep. Be awesome if it was true.

[grendeljd]

I can't believe that crazy theory could possibly be right. Also love how there is a Oswald for every theory.

similarly, is this Mary-Maria only there because of the people who believe that theory?

Damn that's deep. Be awesome if it was true.

+1

[QUARTZ]

The splash page of Bruce and Brandon Lee is extraordinary. One of my favorite pages of a comic I have seen in a loong looong time!
Loving this arc, and title.

I had to share that one with my girlfriend. It gave me a good snorting nose laugh.

[jmatt]

And what would that make Obadiah?

So if Aram is Archer's Father, and Mary-Maria is his mother, and Kay sees Archer as infinite... and then Aram laughs about how he made Gods...

Enjoyed the issue, great art but it all left me feeling a little confused.

[kjjohanson]

And what would that make Obadiah?

So if Aram is Archer's Father, and Mary-Maria is his mother, and Kay sees Archer as infinite... and then Aram laughs about how he made Gods...

Enjoyed the issue, great art but it all left me feeling a little confused.

Well, it's only part 2. Hopefully subsequent chapters will reduce any sense of confusion. I gotta go back and read again, but isn't everyone except A&A dead?

[kjjohanson]

And what would that make Obadiah?

So if Aram is Archer's Father, and Mary-Maria is his mother, and Kay sees Archer as infinite... and then Aram laughs about how he made Gods...

So you're saying that Mary-Maria is the mother of god?

All of what appears to be the situation seems a little too convenient. As brilliant as this series has been, I think there's a major twist still in store.

[greg]

And what would that make Obadiah?

So if Aram is Archer's Father, and Mary-Maria is his mother, and Kay sees Archer as infinite... and then Aram laughs about how he made Gods...

So you're saying that Mary-Maria is the mother of god?

All of what appears to be the situation seems a little too convenient. As brilliant as this series has been, I think there's a major twist still in store.

Perhaps Obadiah is infinite because he is his own grandfather.

Obadiah knows how to travel through time.

He could be Aram's father... and Aram could be his father.

[jmatt]

And what would that make Obadiah?

So if Aram is Archer's Father, and Mary-Maria is his mother, and Kay sees Archer as infinite... and then Aram laughs about how he made Gods...

So you're saying that Mary-Maria is the mother of god?

All of what appears to be the situation seems a little too convenient. As brilliant as this series has been, I think there's a major twist still in store.

Oh, I don't doubt it, there's still a lot to be explained. I guess the big question for me is about the wasteland where dead pop-culture "gods" retire to when their last fan has died. It was created back in 1926 by the activation of the Wheel of Aten (which mimics the boon) ... there's so much left to be explained, like why that's where they go.

Loved the Hendrix Experience homage cover. Big Jimi fan. If you really wanna hear him saw a guitar in half, try Jelly 292.

[QUARTZ]

I'm not convinced Mary Maria is Archer's mother. As Archer kicks down the door he says, "I am not leaving this hotel without the wheel...or my...mother..."

Mary Maria does not confirm or deny their relationship. She simply turns around and says hello. And then we get the cliff-hanger...

My prediction:
The wheel is Archer's "mother".

Haha...that'd be weird...but yeah I agree...it doesn't necessarily mean she's Archer's mother.

[dornwolf]

random thought we haven't brought up yet with Old Mary, what will have/or has happened to Momma and Papa Archer by this point in her life?

[lorddunlow]

And what would that make Obadiah?

So if Aram is Archer's Father, and Mary-Maria is his mother, and Kay sees Archer as infinite... and then Aram laughs about how he made Gods...

So you're saying that Mary-Maria is the mother of god?

All of what appears to be the situation seems a little too convenient. As brilliant as this series has been, I think there's a major twist still in store.

Perhaps Obadiah is infinite because he is his own grandfather.

Obadiah knows how to travel through time.

He could be Aram's father... and Aram could be his father.

Shut up, Greg. No one wants to hear another one of your cockamamie theories that will ultimately prove to be true. It's quite annoying that you have most likely nailed the the climax of the series (or at least the FVL run of it) when we were only half way through.

Also:


Kudos, to not gloating about it, though. Jmatt or kjjohanson would have been insufferable.

This series is amazing! I can't believe I considered dropping it after 3 issues. It may be the best series by VEI to date. It has been one wild ride. FVL is a master. VEI would be stupid not to have another series lined up for him (if he truly has wrapped up his run on this series). Give this man a Timewalker series ASAP! You listening, Dino?