Bloodshot USA #4 Discussion

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Sunlight on Snow
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Re: Bloodshot USA #4 Discussion

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

grendeljd wrote:
sonicdan wrote:I was kind of bummed / confused about apparently killing of Kozol too.
Especially since Dysart posted a exert of his upcoming Imperium script and it specifically mentions Kozol.
Great issue though. Bloodshot has been consistently awesome since the 2012 launch.
While it did seem like a very deliberate neck twisting action by Deathmate, I think its possible for him to survive it - people injure/break their necks all the time without dying. I think he'll be back again soon, he has become kind of a key villain in the modern Valiant universe. I can't see them wanting him killed off like this. Pixie makes a great point too, we've seen that Dysart is working on a script that he is in.
And isn't Kozol talking to Angela aka the wicked-witch-from-another-dimension... we all know what she's capable of?
Am I the only who's getting super-excited for what Dysart's cooking up?
Keith wrote:
pixierosa wrote:The dog is the best, btw. Nothing better ever happen to that pooch.
My wife is a huge dog lover... she couldn't read the scenes in prior issues where Bloodhound would get hurt by Deathmate. Pretty sure if anything happens to that dog, this may be the end of my wife's comics reading adventure.
+1000

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Re: Bloodshot USA #4 Discussion

Post by ShadowTuga »

Ok, finally read this issue.
I haver to say, Bloodshot Reborn has been really great and entertaining at its best and "entertaining, just that" at its worst.
I think I got both in this issue: I loved the ending, the way that Ray, Magic and Bloodhound came together after all that happened is awesome and it feels organic and real- we saw this relationship from day one.
Deathmate and Bloodsquad is just comicbooky. I actually stopped on that page, laughing. They can be heroes, just for one day. :lol:
I liked Kay's story before this series and feel like this is the cheapest trick VEI ever did. C'mon! She dies a Geomancer and in doing it saves Bloodshot's soul. And now, she's back. :| I really thought we would never see something like this around these parts. The revolving door feel just appeared out of nowhere. And it ruins a wee bit of my enjoyment of Valiant. THIS IS THE COMPANY WHERE STUFF LIKE THAT STAYS OUTSIDE. Or so I thought. :!:
Disappointed with that aspect of the series (seriously bummed by it) but minus that, it was an entertaining enough arc.
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Re: Bloodshot USA #4 Discussion

Post by Sunlight on Snow »

ShadowTuga wrote:Ok, finally read this issue.
I haver to say, Bloodshot Reborn has been really great and entertaining at its best and "entertaining, just that" at its worst.
I think I got both in this issue: I loved the ending, the way that Ray, Magic and Bloodhound came together after all that happened is awesome and it feels organic and real- we saw this relationship from day one.
Deathmate and Bloodsquad is just comicbooky. I actually stopped on that page, laughing. They can be heroes, just for one day. :lol:
I liked Kay's story before this series and feel like this is the cheapest trick VEI ever did. C'mon! She dies a Geomancer and in doing it saves Bloodshot's soul. And now, she's back. :| I really thought we would never see something like this around these parts. The revolving door feel just appeared out of nowhere. And it ruins a wee bit of my enjoyment of Valiant. THIS IS THE COMPANY WHERE STUFF LIKE THAT STAYS OUTSIDE. Or so I thought. :!:
Disappointed with that aspect of the series (seriously bummed by it) but minus that, it was an entertaining enough arc.
Perhaps Kay shouldn't have sucked the nanites out of Ray then. :P

Where was Gilad when it happened? It's his fault!!!

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Re: Bloodshot USA #4 Discussion

Post by Shadowman99 »

Really interesting issue I thought (only caught up on it last night).

Was super surprised to see Kozol meet a remarkably undramatic and sudden end. I know that 'dead is dead' is supposed to be a rule in the VU, but Kay seems to have thrown that rule into the woodchipper so... :? If that truly was the end of Kozol then count me surprised at the flippancy with which VEI have thrown away a major villain. Sure, it's PRS and someone else would realistically probably just come along and replace him, but why go to the effort of creating a new character in that role when there's already a perfectly good one there? Seems an odd play to me so I can't help but feel that somehow we'll be seeing more of Kozol. Besides, we've seen over and over again throughout the Bloodshot titles that all isn't always as it seems, and previously 'given' plot points have often proven...revokable. I wonder if Kozol's death will be one of those.

Although, as someone else stated, I can't see Deathmate, a being perfectly capable of burying bloodshot soldiers, failing to successfully break a puny human neck. Just not gonna happen is it.

Not sure how I felt about the ending of the series, with Ray wrapping things up back at the motel. In one way I like that it's a definite wrap-up to the series and constitutes a good setting from which to move on from into a new wide-open situation, but on the other hand it did feel very full circle and the problem for me is that 'full circle' often feels as though anything that happened after the opening pages wasn't really needed, because overall you're back where you started, y'know? Still, it was a good ride and I enjoyed it.

Wondering what's going to happen with Kay and the Bloodshot unit in the future. If I were them I'd want a nice quiet retirement filling my time with quiet hobbies, but that doesn't make for interesting reading so they're bound to pop up at some point again in the future, and probably 'updated' with new Ray-level tech as well I'd reckon. Future's open for Kay I think - not really sure if she's retained any geomancer powers at this point in time so that remains to be seen, but even if not she's clearly got the physical capacity to act as an awesome weapon in the future, if she's got the mental inclination to do so and cope with the outcome of that.

I like someone's suggestion that these guys could've become the Secret Weapons team. I know we've had the announcement on that already but having just caught up on this issue I definitely feel that something along these lines would've been a much better use for the title than the one it seems to have been used for instead (but I guess we'll ultimately see whether that remains to be true or not). I think I'd have enjoyed this premise as a SW title rather than the one we've been given: seems to fit the theme better to me, at this point in time at least. Let's see what the new SW brings and see if I still feel that way once that's all wrapped up and done :)

Still, good issue with big surprises, enjoyable mini series and am looking forward to seeing what more BS brings.
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Re: Bloodshot USA #4 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

If the whole "Dead is Dead" thing has gone out the window at VEI, then I'm having a little Crazy Theory Time thought...

Not sure if anyone else had already called this, but I'm thinking Kozol may be resurrected as Rampage in the next Bloodshot series. :hm:
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Re: Bloodshot USA #4 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

Shadowman99 wrote:...because overall you're back where you started, y'know?
There's a Stan Lee quote out there that goes something like "Comic books are about presenting the illusion of change, without ever actually changing a thing."

Not sure if that's a good thing or not, or even it it applies more to 1975 more than it does 2017, but most comics reset the character after an arc.

PAD wrote an interesting article about it.

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Re: Bloodshot USA #4 Discussion

Post by Shadowman99 »

grendeljd wrote:If the whole "Dead is Dead" thing has gone out the window at VEI, then I'm having a little Crazy Theory Time thought...

Not sure if anyone else had already called this, but I'm thinking Kozol may be resurrected as Rampage in the next Bloodshot series. :hm:
Honestly, the thought did cross my mind as I read the comic. Really not sure whether it'll happen or not, but we'll see eventually.
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Re: Bloodshot USA #4 Discussion

Post by Shadowman99 »

jmatt wrote:
Shadowman99 wrote:...because overall you're back where you started, y'know?
There's a Stan Lee quote out there that goes something like "Comic books are about presenting the illusion of change, without ever actually changing a thing."

Not sure if that's a good thing or not, or even it it applies more to 1975 more than it does 2017, but most comics reset the character after an arc.

PAD wrote an interesting article about it.
Cheers, that was a good article :)

Have to admit that in my case, when I first started reading Valiant one of the things I found attractive was that there (in theory at least) was the real danger that actions that occurred in the comics mattered and were permanent - 'dead is dead'. I think it's safe to say that after having read Bloodshot Reborn and Bloodshot Island I'd decided that as much as I love the character and enjoy those stories every month, Bloodshot is simply never going to know who he is. Because of the way the nanites affect his perceptions and reality the potential for keeping him going around in endless circles of self-identity seeking are very easily maintained and have been so ever since the comic first hit the shelf.

Shadowman has been very much the same to date: Jack is still apparently struggling to identify who/what he truly is and how that'll affect his life despite that being the premise since the first arc of the original series.

Eternal Warrior exists in a perpetual cycle of life/death/rebirth that, even according to dialogue the character has spoken, will probably be never ending. Sure, he can get up to any manner of hijinx but it doesn't look as if the cycle will ever realistically be broken. The other immortal brothers... Well, they're immortal and have maintained status quo to date. What's going to truly change, and when?

Having said that, to date many VEI titles at least seem to have shown progression: the Harbinger storyline appears to have remained progressive since day 1 as does XO Manowar, Ninjak, Rai, Dr. Mirage and even to some extent Q+W, but that's probably arguable in most cases as well: After all, the Renegades started off trying to take down one overpowered global-scale manipulator, failed, and are now on to their second attempt at fulfilling much the same goal... Having said that, I wonder, with the exception of Harbinger and XO, if these titles haven't yet run long enough to have shown true signs of illusion? Some titles such as Divinity, Britannia and Savage obviously haven't been out the gate anywhere near long enough to make any sensible comment on.

Overall, imo, VEI seems to have given the impression that they're keeping some of their storylines moving forward under genuine change which is more than can be said for other companies. Maybe in the long term a clearer pattern will have emerged.
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Re: Bloodshot USA #4 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

Shadowman99 wrote:Overall, imo, VEI seems to have given the impression that they're keeping some of their storylines moving forward under genuine change which is more than can be said for other companies. Maybe in the long term a clearer pattern will have emerged.
I would agree, I'm a 'permanent change' guy. That's how characters grow and progress. I expect that we'll see a lot of resetting after arcs, but I also expect that we'll see more permanent change than Marvel books had way back when.

That said, I don't mind comic bookiness in my comic books. It doesn't bother me at all that Kay was reintroduced as Deathmate. And she is also probably permanently changed as a result of it.

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Re: Bloodshot USA #4 Discussion

Post by Shadowman99 »

jmatt wrote:
Shadowman99 wrote:Overall, imo, VEI seems to have given the impression that they're keeping some of their storylines moving forward under genuine change which is more than can be said for other companies. Maybe in the long term a clearer pattern will have emerged.
I would agree, I'm a 'permanent change' guy. That's how characters grow and progress. I expect that we'll see a lot of resetting after arcs, but I also expect that we'll see more permanent change than Marvel books had way back when.

That said, I don't mind comic bookiness in my comic books. It doesn't bother me at all that Kay was reintroduced as Deathmate. And she is also probably permanently changed as a result of it.
Yeah, it's a difficult 'thing' to juggle sometimes as a reader isn't it? Wanting comic books to sort of be realistic and serious to some degree within the parameters that the comic/company itself sets, but also making a judgement on how much we're willing to let slide as readers because these are, after all, comics and a certain 'comicbookness' (I honestly can't think of a better term for this myself! :lol: ) is probably always going to be there.

I think in Kay/Deathmate's case I'm happy to let the 'dead is dead' rule slide because there was after all a fairly acceptable explanation behind how she came to be repurposed as Deathmate, but that's just me. I'm pretty easygoing when it comes to comics.

But I do like genuine, permanent change. I know as a business move that's very likely to often be counter-productive to comics in the long term, but I've got my ideals and under those circumstances I'd love to see more comics take brave steps into the unknown and utilise well-planned permanent plot progressions to truly drive stories forward. In the real world it'll probably never happen outside of non-profit comic titles, but it's what I'd love to see at least :)

For example, I could be perfectly happy if say Bloodshot was put out there and the plot constantly drove forward rather than being constantly reset like it has been: eventually the story drives forward and arrives at it's final conclusion, and that's that y'know? End of Bloodshot. To me, even a half-decent writer could always think of a new plot to run a character through or a new theme to explore using a character, and take the character off in a new direction that doesn't require 'soft resetting' or retconning.

Failing that, as long as the audience of that comic/character know, without a doubt, that a story has run its course then there's always the opportunity to do an entirely new comic featuring that character: Sure, maybe some old ground gets retrodden (origin establishment mostly) and reworked perhaps, but as soon as that's done then a new direction can be explored. Sure, this approach wouldn't work in the forward-moving VU, but there's no reason it couldn't work for a standalone title.

Anyway, I'm done musing, I've got stuff to do.
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