Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

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Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by jxm640 »

I enjoyed the issue, although found certain parts jarring.
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

I have to say that I was surprised to learn that this was our current timeline, not some alternate timeline created by Kazmir. Does that mean that people only thought all of that the Stalinverse history that transpired over the last 80 years had occurred when in fact, it had not? What about the thousands or even millions of Soviet structures and institutions (statues, Capitol buildings, etc) that had been created over that period all over the planet? Did they actually exist?

I liked the issue but I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the premise.

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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

If anyone would like to hear our OTV:VCR podcast discussing/reviewing this issue [and Gen. Zero #8, and Ninjak #25], please follow the link;

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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by Keith »

jmatt wrote:I have to say that I was surprised to learn that this was our current timeline, not some alternate timeline created by Kazmir. Does that mean that people only thought all of that the Stalinverse history that transpired over the last 80 years had occurred when in fact, it had not? What about the thousands or even millions of Soviet structures and institutions (statues, Capitol buildings, etc) that had been created over that period all over the planet? Did they actually exist?

I liked the issue but I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the premise.
I'm right there with you. I am having a hard time grasping how this could work on a global scale, and afraid I'm missing some key context.
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

Keith wrote:I'm right there with you. I am having a hard time grasping how this could work on a global scale, and afraid I'm missing some key context.
There's a lot to digest here. First, well, it's comics so I'm happy to grant Kindt a mile of artistic license.

But let's walk through it a bit here, please feel free to correct me if a basic assumption is false.

So, let's say a few months back Kazmir whips up the Stalinverse because he feels that this is how history should have gone. Everyone on the planet awakens that day believing that the false history actually happened and that they are all loyal Soviet comrades. Fine.

Now, what of the structures and institutions (and all they entail) that had existed the day before? Did he uncreate them? Did he physically create every structure that would have been built if his alternate history had actually unfolded as it did? This is something beyond the 'mass-psychosis' that Divinity references in the aftermath.

Divinity says he had a hard time undoing most of what Kazmir did, so I guess that's how it went. But that's on a scale of what happened with Solar in V1, which was a pretty big deal. I dunno, I think I'm getting more comfortable with it.

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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by pixierosa »

My take on it was as you describe - it was more than mass hypnosis. That part of it allowed people to forget their other history. I imagine Divinity had to undo that which wouldn't have happened - so monuments made for the Soviet Union that weren't present in our reality would be removed, Kennedy didn't die at the Bay of Pigs, etc. But it would be difficult to ascertain changes to personal lives that didn't have a footnote in recorded history. Though with social media, he would be able to determine plenty about someone's daily life (assuming he could access it. perhaps through Bloodshot's memories or Aric's armor)

I like the bit about not eliminating Red Legend. That reinforces the idea that he changed events/people back to what they were, plus I like her as a heroine.

I enjoyed this book. I had to laugh at the mish-mashed sci-fi references like the Nazi death robot, Starship Troopers, Star Trek/Planet of the Apes.
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by Keith »

And, apparently, raise some people from the dead. Plenty of folks die during this event (Kozol, Livewire, etc.) But, again, we're talking about god-like beings here.

Question... Divinity vs. Solar. More power, or about on the same level?
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by agent_graves »

Abrams a God. Never question God. He fixed it, end of story, until Eternity. :P

All jokes aside, Divinity really boss'd up this issue and got aggressive, but also showed compassion. I loved it. I'm glad they kept the Red Brigade around, those are some interesting characters.
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

agent_graves wrote:Abrams a God. Never question God. He fixed it, end of story, until Eternity. :P

All jokes aside, Divinity really boss'd up this issue and got aggressive, but also showed compassion. I loved it. I'm glad they kept the Red Brigade around, those are some interesting characters.
He didn't really boss up, and that's what I loved about it. Sure, he blew dude's head off, but besides a little grappling, it was all reasoning and talk. I feel it ended way too quickly, like Kindt needed 2-4 more pages of dialog to truly wrap up the story. Kasmir was like, "oh yea....I'm out" and completely gave up on his new world. I think there needed to be a little more interaction there, and maybe it got chopped.

I think there could have been a page or two more describing how Abrams put the world back together too. All in all, the story didn't suffer. Loved the ending with Abrams and Mishka baking together, then splash panel "in the beginning". Wonder if this will be some type of prolog or something?
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by agent_graves »

TheeBaldMoose wrote:
agent_graves wrote:Abrams a God. Never question God. He fixed it, end of story, until Eternity. :P

All jokes aside, Divinity really boss'd up this issue and got aggressive, but also showed compassion. I loved it. I'm glad they kept the Red Brigade around, those are some interesting characters.
He didn't really boss up, and that's what I loved about it. Sure, he blew dude's head off, but besides a little grappling, it was all reasoning and talk. I feel it ended way too quickly, like Kindt needed 2-4 more pages of dialog to truly wrap up the story. kasmir was like, "oh yea....I'm out" and completely gave up on his new world. I think there needed to be a little more interaction there, and maybe it got chopped.

I think there could have been a page or two more describing how Abrams put the world back together too. All in all, the story didn't suffer. Loved the ending with Abrams and Mishka baking together, then splash panel "in the beginning". Wonder if this will be some type of prolog or something?
Abram can be passive, this we know, Kasmir evens mentions it to him during their tussle, I felt he stood tall not just because he got physical, but also for the reasons you mentioned, he was able to reason and use his powers in a way that convinced Kasmir that being out in the "unknown" is where he belongs.

The splash page with "In the Beginning"... is very intriguing. Can't wait to find out about Eternity...
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

agent_graves wrote:
TheeBaldMoose wrote:
agent_graves wrote:Abrams a God. Never question God. He fixed it, end of story, until Eternity. :P

All jokes aside, Divinity really boss'd up this issue and got aggressive, but also showed compassion. I loved it. I'm glad they kept the Red Brigade around, those are some interesting characters.
He didn't really boss up, and that's what I loved about it. Sure, he blew dude's head off, but besides a little grappling, it was all reasoning and talk. I feel it ended way too quickly, like Kindt needed 2-4 more pages of dialog to truly wrap up the story. kasmir was like, "oh yea....I'm out" and completely gave up on his new world. I think there needed to be a little more interaction there, and maybe it got chopped.

I think there could have been a page or two more describing how Abrams put the world back together too. All in all, the story didn't suffer. Loved the ending with Abrams and Mishka baking together, then splash panel "in the beginning". Wonder if this will be some type of prolog or something?
Abram can be passive, this we know, Kasmir evens mentions it to him during their tussle, I felt he stood tall not just because he got physical, but also for the reasons you mentioned, he was able to reason and use his powers in a way that convinced Kasmir that being out in the "unknown" is where he belongs.

The splash page with "In the Beginning"... is very intriguing. Can't wait to find out about Eternity...
That right there is probably the best definition for what he did, he stood tall.
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

TheeBaldMoose wrote:He didn't really boss up, and that's what I loved about it. ... it was all reasoning and talk.
I some ways, that's what I don't love about Divinity, the character. Is every fight gonna be resolved with a session on the analyst's couch reminding the opponent of books they read as a child?

That's an interesting angle every once in a while, but it seems to be his modus operandi. Perhaps it's an issue with the character being so ridiculously over-powered that there's no real way to pose a threat to him that gets resolved in any other way.

Don't get me wrong, Stalinverse is perhaps my favorite VEI event yet. But how do you invent interesting stories for a character that can seemingly change reality at will?

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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by BugsySig »

jmatt wrote:
TheeBaldMoose wrote:He didn't really boss up, and that's what I loved about it. ... it was all reasoning and talk.
I some ways, that's what I don't love about Divinity, the character. Is every fight gonna be resolved with a session on the analyst's couch reminding the opponent of books they read as a child?

That's an interesting angle every once in a while, but it seems to be his modus operandi. Perhaps it's an issue with the character being so ridiculously over-powered that there's no real way to pose a threat to him that gets resolved in any other way.

Don't get me wrong, Stalinverse is perhaps my favorite VEI event yet. But how do you invent interesting stories for a character that can seemingly change reality at will?
Always an issue. The only solution always seems to be to give them some sort of psychological issue as their weakness a la Solar, Sentry, etc. Or they need to take on cosmic entities or other overpowered adversaries. I did like his "battle" with Harada back in Imperium, for example.
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

I enjoyed this mini series, sure it was a complicated ending in terms of setting everything back to how it was but I didn't have a problem with it.

I'd still like to know how Abram Adams ended up in Russia, who his real parents were and how his adoptive Russian parents knew his name (could have been left in a note)?

4/5 for the mini

3/5 for the one shots

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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

BugsySig wrote: I did like his "battle" with Harada back in Imperium, for example.
Ya know, I aaaaalmost mentioned that. Dysart used his power in the way it was described originally (time looping) and it was terrific.

Which brings me to my next observation. Are 'books' a theme with this character? In Divinity 1 we see him thinking about books he read as a child, he talks to Kazmir and Myshka about books they read as children.... and when his power (time looping, etc) was first described it was analogized as pages of a book touching each other. :hm:

One final preference: In the scene where we see him revive himself, his head regrows a body and then poof... we see him fully formed and back in his spacesuit getup.

I think I would have preferred something where he restores himself in more of a metaphysical manner, perhaps a faint vision of him in the suit that grows more defined and tangible as it materializes. It's more of a holistic restoration as he reappears from the ether whole rather than piecemeal, first body bits and then the costume. It seems more fitting to me, he is beyond flesh and bone.

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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by Keith »

Hmmmm... Peter Stanchek left Earth shortly after Armor Hunters. Divinity returned to Earth sometime after that.

Aric apparently left Earth prior to Bloodshot USA. Peter returned to Earth after Bloodshot USA.

Trying to reconcile how both Aric and Peter are on Earth during this era.

Forget it, Keith. It's Stalinverse.
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
I'd still like to know how Abram Adams ended up in Russia, who his real parents were and how his adoptive Russian parents knew his name (could have been left in a note)?
Update, messaged Matt Kindt on Twitter about plans for revealing Abrams real parents and how his adoptive parents knew his American name his answer.....#eternity

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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by agent_graves »

Keith wrote:Hmmmm... Peter Stanchek left Earth shortly after Armor Hunters. Divinity returned to Earth sometime after that.

Aric apparently left Earth prior to Bloodshot USA. Peter returned to Earth after Bloodshot USA.

Trying to reconcile how both Aric and Peter are on Earth during this era.

Forget it, Keith. It's Stalinverse.
There you go... :D
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by agent_graves »

Perhaps one of the most interesting aspects to Abram Adams, the original Divinity, is that he’s more interested in solving problems without using his godlike powers – although that preference did result in him losing his head last issue – which gives Divinity a recurring thread that’s quite unlike many other publisher’s major crossover stories of late; that sometimes violence doesn’t solve everything.

That’s not to say that there isn’t a climactic battle this issue, but rather that’s not where the comic’s focus is – this is a story about Divinity, and not just another typical superhero fighting miniseries. There’s a spectacular sequence where two characters are having a verbal meeting of the minds, a meeting that’s a fantastic read, but it’s the mind bendingly beautiful artwork of Trevor Hairsine and the rest of the artistic team that elevate the sequence to the next level. If you want an example to show to your friends of a story that exemplifies, and indeed transcends, the comic book medium, then look no further than Valiant‘s Divinity.*

QFT.. This is who Abram IS... He's not your typical superhero, and that's what I love so much about this character... #ETERNITY

*Review
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

I'll grant you that. Divinity is a reluctant god.

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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

agent_graves wrote:Perhaps one of the most interesting aspects to Abram Adams, the original Divinity, is that he’s more interested in solving problems without using his godlike powers – although that preference did result in him losing his head last issue – which gives Divinity a recurring thread that’s quite unlike many other publisher’s major crossover stories of late; that sometimes violence doesn’t solve everything.

That’s not to say that there isn’t a climactic battle this issue, but rather that’s not where the comic’s focus is – this is a story about Divinity, and not just another typical superhero fighting miniseries. There’s a spectacular sequence where two characters are having a verbal meeting of the minds, a meeting that’s a fantastic read, but it’s the mind bendingly beautiful artwork of Trevor Hairsine and the rest of the artistic team that elevate the sequence to the next level. If you want an example to show to your friends of a story that exemplifies, and indeed transcends, the comic book medium, then look no further than Valiant‘s Divinity.*

QFT.. This is who Abram IS... He's not your typical superhero, and that's what I love so much about this character... #ETERNITY

*Review
Well said. I agree, it's fantastic storytelling and I'm glad to see it stick to a theme like this where it doesn't just devolve into men in tights punching men in tights. :thumb:

The larger through-line theme of Divinity is that he is a well read, well educated man who (despite the regime that the Soviets put him through to essentially brainwash him into a nationalist) is further cosmically enlightened by his powers to see a much larger picture of the universe than any one of us can comprehend.

And so, instead of remaining small minded like the others did, he is humbled in the face of the cosmos (I'm semi-quoting Neil deGrasse Tyson there) and is therefore always able to see beyond all the petty concerns we all have in life. I thought that "showdown" was excellent, loved the concept & the dialogue surrounding it.
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

jmatt wrote:I'll grant you that. Divinity is a reluctant god.
Sometimes the best people to wield power are the ones who don't want to do it.
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

grendeljd wrote:
jmatt wrote:I'll grant you that. Divinity is a reluctant god.
Sometimes the best people to wield power are the ones who don't want to do it.
I don't mind a smart superhero book. In fact, I like clever as much as brawn in them. But this book is missing a touch of narrative in that regard, to establish his perspective about it. I dunno, maybe we just got it in the chess panels.

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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by ShadowTuga »

I was enjoying this very much. Until this issue.
One of the most out-of-the-box "comic book events" (Sovietworld) I ever read, but with such a quick, hurried ending. I really did not like this issue. Weak stuff, really weak, when it came to explain the "cleaning", i.e. making things getting back to normal.

The Escape... one-shot was way more enjoyable, imho.

It sucks because I was really hyped for this. Came out feeling this was comics, in a bad way.
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Re: Divinity 3 #4 Discussion

Post by possumgrease »

ShadowTuga wrote:I was enjoying this very much. Until this issue.
One of the most out-of-the-box "comic book events" (Sovietworld) I ever read, but with such a quick, hurried ending. I really did not like this issue. Weak stuff, really weak, when it came to explain the "cleaning", i.e. making things getting back to normal.

The Escape... one-shot was way more enjoyable, imho.

It sucks because I was really hyped for this. Came out feeling this was comics, in a bad way.
Your post sums up my opinion as well except that I think The Escape may have been the best thing about the whole miniseries.


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