Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

An area for Valiant SPOILER-RELATED discussions.
Any books which have been published and are available may be discussed here. Recent book discussions may contain spoilers for those who have not yet read them.

Moderators: Daniel Jackson, greg

Post Reply
User avatar
grendeljd
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
Posts: 8132
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51:43 am
Valiant fan since: 1991
Favorite character: Aric
Favorite title: Harbinger
Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

If anyone would like to hear our OTV:VCR podcast discussing/reviewing this issue, please follow the link;

http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr148/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks to any who listen in :thumb:
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
greg
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
Posts: 22861
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:39:27 am
Valiant fan since: Rai #0
Favorite character: Depends on title
Favorite title: Depends on writer
Favorite writer: Depends on artist
Favorite artist: Depends on character
Location: Indoors
Contact:
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by greg »

Reference needed: Russell Crowe Javert Dot Gif

Image
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/ori ... 41/e0c.gif" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:thumb:

User avatar
TheeBaldMoose
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Posts: 2451
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:03:41 pm
Valiant fan since: ECCC April 2016
Favorite character: Bloodshot/Ninjak/Divinity
Favorite title: Divinity/BS Reborn/Britannia
Favorite writer: Kindt/Lemire/Roberts
Favorite artist: All of them, really
Location: Tacoma
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

just read the story out in my car (during my lunch break), thought it was pretty good. Through all of Secret Weapons, we were lead to believe that Owen had a crush on her, that last panel shows a mutual interest, which is very nice to see.

I haven't really thought deeply about this book yet, but maybe she acted the strong lead to somehow impress him? Throughout this book, we don't see her attempting to lead anything, no natural ability to lead. She has talent as a gymnast, and was possibly the center of her clique, or group, but nothing outlining leadership. Maybe something could be said with the birds, that she started showing these signs as a leader with them, but nothing really eludes to it. She did go and look for her friends, but that's heart and concern.

Over all, it was a pretty great book. Nothing negative to say about it
Moose

SuperMage
Completely ruined the ending of Last Jedi: The Force Reloaded of the Green Gables 8 -- This Time, It's Really Really Personal (In Space).
Completely ruined the ending of Last Jedi: The Force Reloaded of the Green Gables 8 -- This Time, It's Really Really Personal (In Space).
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:08:41 pm
Valiant fan since: 2013
Favorite character: Animalia
Favorite title: X-O Manowar
Location: Hollywood, Florida
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by SuperMage »

TheeBaldMoose wrote:just read the story out in my car (during my lunch break), thought it was pretty good. Through all of Secret Weapons, we were lead to believe that Owen had a crush on her, that last panel shows a mutual interest, which is very nice to see.

I haven't really thought deeply about this book yet, but maybe she acted the strong lead to somehow impress him? Throughout this book, we don't see her attempting to lead anything, no natural ability to lead. She has talent as a gymnast, and was possibly the center of her clique, or group, but nothing outlining leadership. Maybe something could be said with the birds, that she started showing these signs as a leader with them, but nothing really eludes to it. She did go and look for her friends, but that's heart and concern.

Over all, it was a pretty great book. Nothing negative to say about it
I don't think any of the Secret Weapons see themselves as leaders or even anything other than misfits. She didn't ask Owen and Avi to follow her, they chose to since she was the only one of them being proactive. Nikki never gave on trying to find her friends until it eventually lead her to Rex-O. Owen and Avi on the other hand are very passive, and only got involved when they had nowhere else to go. I get the feeling under normal circumstances Nikki would be pretty quick to defer to Livewire's leadership, and not really question the chain of command. The Secret Weapons have only briefly been a team so it's heard to say what kind of dynamics they'll have moving forward.

We got a look at Lucia in this issue. I guess her and Nikki didn't get along. I don't even think Nikki bothered looking for her. We never really saw Lucia hanging out with the other Willows kids either. Guessing she was the misfit among misfits.

User avatar
TheeBaldMoose
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Posts: 2451
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:03:41 pm
Valiant fan since: ECCC April 2016
Favorite character: Bloodshot/Ninjak/Divinity
Favorite title: Divinity/BS Reborn/Britannia
Favorite writer: Kindt/Lemire/Roberts
Favorite artist: All of them, really
Location: Tacoma
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

SuperMage wrote:
TheeBaldMoose wrote:just read the story out in my car (during my lunch break), thought it was pretty good. Through all of Secret Weapons, we were lead to believe that Owen had a crush on her, that last panel shows a mutual interest, which is very nice to see.

I haven't really thought deeply about this book yet, but maybe she acted the strong lead to somehow impress him? Throughout this book, we don't see her attempting to lead anything, no natural ability to lead. She has talent as a gymnast, and was possibly the center of her clique, or group, but nothing outlining leadership. Maybe something could be said with the birds, that she started showing these signs as a leader with them, but nothing really eludes to it. She did go and look for her friends, but that's heart and concern.

Over all, it was a pretty great book. Nothing negative to say about it
I don't think any of the Secret Weapons see themselves as leaders or even anything other than misfits. She didn't ask Owen and Avi to follow her, they chose to since she was the only one of them being proactive. Nikki never gave on trying to find her friends until it eventually lead her to Rex-O. Owen and Avi on the other hand are very passive, and only got involved when they had nowhere else to go. I get the feeling under normal circumstances Nikki would be pretty quick to defer to Livewire's leadership, and not really question the chain of command. The Secret Weapons have only briefly been a team so it's heard to say what kind of dynamics they'll have moving forward.

We got a look at Lucia in this issue. I guess her and Nikki didn't get along. I don't even think Nikki bothered looking for her. We never really saw Lucia hanging out with the other Willows kids either. Guessing she was the misfit among misfits.
Maybe I didn't communicate my point as well as I should. When I say "team" I mean the younger group, not counting Livewire. Obviously, she would deffer to Livewire in a leadership role, but among the others, when they had to get something done, she was the one to spring into action. I trying show she isn't a natural leader, that she just might have been showing off to get Owen to pay attention to her a little more by springing into action. I was referencing her last panel, when Owen found her in the dump after she had stated she had nothing else to live for.
Moose

User avatar
DirtbagSailor
I only know how to fish, f^%k, fight, and throw rocks
I only know how to fish, f^%k, fight, and throw rocks
Posts: 5047
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:27:03 am
Valiant fan since: 1993
Favorite character: Harada
Favorite title: Imperium
Location: Maryland
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by DirtbagSailor »

It was a well written Harbinger #0 issue. :thumb:

SuperMage
Completely ruined the ending of Last Jedi: The Force Reloaded of the Green Gables 8 -- This Time, It's Really Really Personal (In Space).
Completely ruined the ending of Last Jedi: The Force Reloaded of the Green Gables 8 -- This Time, It's Really Really Personal (In Space).
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:08:41 pm
Valiant fan since: 2013
Favorite character: Animalia
Favorite title: X-O Manowar
Location: Hollywood, Florida
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by SuperMage »

TheeBaldMoose wrote:
SuperMage wrote:
TheeBaldMoose wrote:just read the story out in my car (during my lunch break), thought it was pretty good. Through all of Secret Weapons, we were lead to believe that Owen had a crush on her, that last panel shows a mutual interest, which is very nice to see.

I haven't really thought deeply about this book yet, but maybe she acted the strong lead to somehow impress him? Throughout this book, we don't see her attempting to lead anything, no natural ability to lead. She has talent as a gymnast, and was possibly the center of her clique, or group, but nothing outlining leadership. Maybe something could be said with the birds, that she started showing these signs as a leader with them, but nothing really eludes to it. She did go and look for her friends, but that's heart and concern.

Over all, it was a pretty great book. Nothing negative to say about it
I don't think any of the Secret Weapons see themselves as leaders or even anything other than misfits. She didn't ask Owen and Avi to follow her, they chose to since she was the only one of them being proactive. Nikki never gave on trying to find her friends until it eventually lead her to Rex-O. Owen and Avi on the other hand are very passive, and only got involved when they had nowhere else to go. I get the feeling under normal circumstances Nikki would be pretty quick to defer to Livewire's leadership, and not really question the chain of command. The Secret Weapons have only briefly been a team so it's heard to say what kind of dynamics they'll have moving forward.

We got a look at Lucia in this issue. I guess her and Nikki didn't get along. I don't even think Nikki bothered looking for her. We never really saw Lucia hanging out with the other Willows kids either. Guessing she was the misfit among misfits.
Maybe I didn't communicate my point as well as I should. When I say "team" I mean the younger group, not counting Livewire. Obviously, she would deffer to Livewire in a leadership role, but among the others, when they had to get something done, she was the one to spring into action. I trying show she isn't a natural leader, that she just might have been showing off to get Owen to pay attention to her a little more by springing into action. I was referencing her last panel, when Owen found her in the dump after she had stated she had nothing else to live for.
Good point. I think a lot of the things she did in issue 2, volunteering to take Owen to Cheapjack, were just excuses to be alone with him. She's waiting for Owen to make a move, but he's to oblivious to realize it. I'm curious to see how Nikki's character plays off other characters in the Valiant Universe. I wonder if her and Faith would get along?

tell
100 posts! (if you round to the nearest 100)
100 posts! (if you round to the nearest 100)
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:14:55 pm
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by tell »

I loved the book as I expected. My only critique is (and I thought this at SW #1 too) is that I personally think Harada would see the utility of Ornipathy, I did right away. Harada was creating a secret private army, espionage must be part of that and speaking to birds is a totally useful for a spy, especially on a team with all sorts of other abilities. Birds are everywhere, creating a bird spy-ring must be useful. I think they'd invest in exploring those possibilities after investing 800K in a surgery. Maybe it was because Harada was under all the pressure building to the Harbinger Wars and he didn't want to take the time on long shot creative abilities and invested in heavy hitters instead.

Great book, I'm not complaining.

User avatar
greg
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
The admin around here must be getting old and soft.
Posts: 22861
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:39:27 am
Valiant fan since: Rai #0
Favorite character: Depends on title
Favorite title: Depends on writer
Favorite writer: Depends on artist
Favorite artist: Depends on character
Location: Indoors
Contact:
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by greg »

tell wrote:I loved the book as I expected. My only critique is (and I thought this at SW #1 too) is that I personally think Harada would see the utility of Ornipathy, I did right away. Harada was creating a secret private army, espionage must be part of that and speaking to birds is a totally useful for a spy, especially on a team with all sorts of other abilities. Birds are everywhere, creating a bird spy-ring must be useful. I think they'd invest in exploring those possibilities after investing 800K in a surgery. Maybe it was because Harada was under all the pressure building to the Harbinger Wars and he didn't want to take the time on long shot creative abilities and invested in heavy hitters instead.

Great book, I'm not complaining.
Given Harada's unlimited wealth and technology, I wouldn't think that espionage in the form of birds would be better than high-resolution satellite surveillance or his own ability to read minds or take over other people's thoughts at a distance. The birds aren't always clearly communicating. "El vato" was the best the bird could provide to Nikki when it meant "Elevator".

User avatar
agent_graves
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
Posts: 1754
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:34:56 pm
Valiant fan since: Since VEI(Turok #1?)
Favorite character: Divinity/Shadowman/LiveWire
Favorite title: Divinity/Imperium/Ninjak
Favorite writer: Kindt/Lemire/Dysart
Favorite artist: Mann/Cafu/De la Torre
Location: North Carolina
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by agent_graves »

It ended where #1 began... :clap:

Well Done! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
#StayValiant

tell
100 posts! (if you round to the nearest 100)
100 posts! (if you round to the nearest 100)
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:14:55 pm
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by tell »

greg wrote:
tell wrote:I loved the book as I expected. My only critique is (and I thought this at SW #1 too) is that I personally think Harada would see the utility of Ornipathy, I did right away. Harada was creating a secret private army, espionage must be part of that and speaking to birds is a totally useful for a spy, especially on a team with all sorts of other abilities. Birds are everywhere, creating a bird spy-ring must be useful. I think they'd invest in exploring those possibilities after investing 800K in a surgery. Maybe it was because Harada was under all the pressure building to the Harbinger Wars and he didn't want to take the time on long shot creative abilities and invested in heavy hitters instead.

Great book, I'm not complaining.
Given Harada's unlimited wealth and technology, I wouldn't think that espionage in the form of birds would be better than high-resolution satellite surveillance or his own ability to read minds or take over other people's thoughts at a distance. The birds aren't always clearly communicating. "El vato" was the best the bird could provide to Nikki when it meant "Elevator".
Yeah but Harada never knew that. I just don't really think he'd dump her someplace before exploring possibilities.

One useful thing about birds is you can't get info out of them with mind reading abilities, you can't hack them for info. You could have mind readers and technology everywhere and PRS can have counter measures against that. Birds aren't super helpful, they can't tell you what was written or said, but you could have birds watching Kozol through his office and home windows all day and no one would ever be the wiser.

User avatar
jmatt
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
Posts: 11026
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:41:10 pm
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA!
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

Great read and a good origin story. I love Heiserrer's stuff! Very like Dysart in his emphasis on character. :thumb:

otomo
Get those scissors away from my coupons
Get those scissors away from my coupons
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:04:27 pm
Valiant fan since: 2017
Favorite character: XO Manowar
Favorite title: XO Manowar
Favorite writer: Matt Kindt
Favorite artist: Tomas Giorello
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by otomo »

Backstory. It felt a little slow paced and had a lot of just telling-style background dialogue as things happened and days passed. As a #0 I guess that's okay but this comic was very flat and dry without much to connect to. The panel about dropping panties coming from high school girls I also felt was a little disturbing. People don't talk like that, and making borderline not-adults talk like that is a little too much for my creepy-sense. Art was fine but just bland again, nothing really stood out as awesome. 5/10
Like XO Manowar or Conan The Barbarian? Check out my new graphic novel, DEUS VULT on IndieGoGo now: Deus Vult: http://igg.me/at/deusvult.

User avatar
Dallow Spicer1
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Rockin' out in Torquehalla
Posts: 2456
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19:05 am
Valiant fan since: Mid 90's
Favorite character: X-O
Favorite title: X-O
Favorite writer: V-Ditti & Dysart
Favorite artist: Larosa
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

jmatt wrote:Great read and a good origin story. I love Heiserrer's stuff! Very like Dysart in his emphasis on character. :thumb:
+1 and I really enjoyed the art too!

4/5 :clap:

User avatar
kinggirlfriend
5318008
5318008
Posts: 568
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 5:20:12 pm
Valiant fan since: 2016
Favorite character: Gilad
Favorite title: Wrath
Favorite writer: Venditti
Favorite artist: CAFU
Location: Southwest Desert
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by kinggirlfriend »

Just read this, I agree that it felt similar to Dysart's Harbinger in the best possible way. I loved seeing more behind the scenes of the Harbinger Foundation and the step by step process a potential psiot would go through. I only remember Adam Pollina as another '90s Image clone, but boy did he get better! The art was fantastic. This was an excellent origin issue.

User avatar
grendeljd
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
Posts: 8132
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51:43 am
Valiant fan since: 1991
Favorite character: Aric
Favorite title: Harbinger
Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

Just read this as well, absolutely loved it. Nikki is such a wonderful new character, & this was a great glimpse into a very important early stage of development for her.

*Loved* the use of the panel art focusing on her centrally through the entire issue, with only the backgrounds [and her attire] changing. Really adds an abstract element of impact to how radically her life changed over those several months worth of time. Also a really awesome inside, personal view of what it would be like to go through being contacted, chosen for & then going through the selection process at the Harbinger Foundation.

Man, this guy can write!!! I've said it before, and I continue to really hope we see a lot more of Harbinger being written by Heiserrer in the future. He is a very worthy successor to Dysart's legacy on this series, and if we're not going to get much more Dysart at Valiant ever again I can't think of anybody I'd rather see writing these characters.
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
grendeljd
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
Posts: 8132
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51:43 am
Valiant fan since: 1991
Favorite character: Aric
Favorite title: Harbinger
Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

SuperMage wrote:
TheeBaldMoose wrote:
SuperMage wrote:
TheeBaldMoose wrote:just read the story out in my car (during my lunch break), thought it was pretty good. Through all of Secret Weapons, we were lead to believe that Owen had a crush on her, that last panel shows a mutual interest, which is very nice to see.

I haven't really thought deeply about this book yet, but maybe she acted the strong lead to somehow impress him? Throughout this book, we don't see her attempting to lead anything, no natural ability to lead. She has talent as a gymnast, and was possibly the center of her clique, or group, but nothing outlining leadership. Maybe something could be said with the birds, that she started showing these signs as a leader with them, but nothing really eludes to it. She did go and look for her friends, but that's heart and concern.

Over all, it was a pretty great book. Nothing negative to say about it
I don't think any of the Secret Weapons see themselves as leaders or even anything other than misfits. She didn't ask Owen and Avi to follow her, they chose to since she was the only one of them being proactive. Nikki never gave on trying to find her friends until it eventually lead her to Rex-O. Owen and Avi on the other hand are very passive, and only got involved when they had nowhere else to go. I get the feeling under normal circumstances Nikki would be pretty quick to defer to Livewire's leadership, and not really question the chain of command. The Secret Weapons have only briefly been a team so it's heard to say what kind of dynamics they'll have moving forward.

We got a look at Lucia in this issue. I guess her and Nikki didn't get along. I don't even think Nikki bothered looking for her. We never really saw Lucia hanging out with the other Willows kids either. Guessing she was the misfit among misfits.
Maybe I didn't communicate my point as well as I should. When I say "team" I mean the younger group, not counting Livewire. Obviously, she would deffer to Livewire in a leadership role, but among the others, when they had to get something done, she was the one to spring into action. I trying show she isn't a natural leader, that she just might have been showing off to get Owen to pay attention to her a little more by springing into action. I was referencing her last panel, when Owen found her in the dump after she had stated she had nothing else to live for.
Good point. I think a lot of the things she did in issue 2, volunteering to take Owen to Cheapjack, were just excuses to be alone with him. She's waiting for Owen to make a move, but he's to oblivious to realize it. I'm curious to see how Nikki's character plays off other characters in the Valiant Universe. I wonder if her and Faith would get along?
I see the point being made that she may be just being a bit more bold in order to impress Owen, and I don't disagree with the idea. It is probably in the mix of motivations for her. But I tend to think its also more a case of her being a more pro-active personality than the others. That can & probably will evolve into good leadership skills with time.

Going by the events of this issue, she is out to prove something - she has already excelled at something in her young life [the acrobatics], but wasn't allowed to pursue it - & she is then very driven to go to the Harbinger Foundation to try & be something better than she feels she currently is. She wants to test her limits, despite the fear of the unknown or the personal upheaval involved in such a huge decision.
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Big Red
5318008
5318008
Posts: 559
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:09:33 am
Valiant fan since: Before the Anni-Padda...
Favorite character: Divinity, X-O, & Bloodshot
Favorite title: Divinity
Favorite artist: Trevor Hairsine
Location: Lincolnton, Ga
Re: Secret Weapons #0 Discussion

Post by Big Red »

A great book and a great character.

:thumb:
Favorite books: Black Hammer, Bloodshot, Divinity, Justice League Dark, Marvel Two-In-One, Thor.


Post Reply