Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

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Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by DirtbagSailor »

As fantastic as LADOTH #1 was (is), LADOTH #2 is even BETTER! :clap:

This IS the story Valiant Fans have waited for.

This IS the series you read, collect, and remember as the gold standard of all things Valiant!

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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by DirtbagSailor »

Jace and My spoiler free discussion on The Comic Source!

https://lrmonline.com/news/episode-766/ :thumb:

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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

Oh man, I have the early review/preview of this issue too, but haven't had a moment to read it yet... gah!! Can't wait!
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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by otomo »

I said XO was about perfect... this also was about perfect. If valiant could just keep books like the three of these coming out like we had this week, you know, it'd be pretty awesome.
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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by otomo »

Oh I thought I was discussing #1 when this was #2. These threads are getting confusing now that so many folk are getting pre-release copies, I don't know what's being discussed. My comment still stands though, perfect book.
My super-successfully crowdfunded debut comic, Flying Sparks: https://www.amazon.com/Flying-Sparks-Jo ... 9527303419 is now up on Amazon! The story of a hero and villain dating under their secret identities. Worlds collide!

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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

If anyone would like to hear our OTV:VCR podcast discussing/reviewing this issue [& Livewire #5], please follow the link;

http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr201/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks to any who listen in :thumb:
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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

Another top notch issue from Dysart. LADOTH really highlights a lot of the mediocrity we’ve gotten used to over the past few years. This issue also reminds me that Kosol was killed off way too easily and perhaps it was a misstep taking him out of the universe.

Stupid question maybe, but do we think Harada will actually be killed off at the end of this mini? Surely they won’t kill VEI’s biggest bad guy? :?

5/5 - art and story delivers! :clap:

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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by DirtbagSailor »

Jace & DBS discuss The Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 (again) on the Valiant Sunday episode of The Comic Source:

https://lrmonline.com/?powerpress_pinw=134336-podcast

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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by DirtbagSailor »

DBS’s (SPOILER FREE) Rating = :clap:

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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by agent_graves »

DirtbagSailor wrote:As fantastic as LADOTH #1 was (is), LADOTH #2 is even BETTER! :clap:

This IS the story Valiant Fans have waited for.

This IS the series you read, collect, and remember as the gold standard of all things Valiant!
+1 Nuff Said!!!! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
#StayValiant

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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by mullinsmcd »

Ive read through all of Dysarts work to date but I'm struggling a bit on Toyos choice not to provide Angela Vessel with her request, especially considering the critical junction hes in. Toyo has always struck me as someone who would tactically make small sacrifices to his morals in order to service the bigger picture.

Can someone enlighten me on why he would do so many other things but the 'Factory' is crossing the line?

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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by DirtbagSailor »

mullinsmcd wrote:Ive read through all of Dysarts work to date but I'm struggling a bit on Toyos choice not to provide Angela Vessel with her request, especially considering the critical junction hes in. Toyo has always struck me as someone who would tactically make small sacrifices to his morals in order to service the bigger picture.

Can someone enlighten me on why he would do so many other things but the 'Factory' is crossing the line?
Yes.

Many people have ZERO ethical issue with killing opposition (enemy combatant) forces on a battlefield, while at the same time, they DO take serious ethical issue with killing of the innocent (non-combatants). While Harada is clearly one of the most powerful Psiots in the VU, he is also human, and has a internal moral compass that incorporates 80+ years of witnessing horrific events (to include watching his own mother basically burn/melt in front of him). Harada is NOT a soulless and/or emotionless monster willing to allow himself to look so far into the abyss that he becomes worse than what he seeks to prevent.

Angela may be arguably "correct" from a mechanical perspective where morals, souls, and emotions do not exist; however, if Harada plans to rule the world, 1.) he needs to ensure after all of his actions are complete, that a world worth ruling remains, and 2.) that the people to be ruled are not instantly united against Harada’s for his actions.

Soldiers die in battle. People (most people) will understand this truth. FEW people will agree to or understand this "Factory." Such an action not only would spark further action against The Foundation (rebellions, revolution, civil war, etc), but further embolden and/or justify such action on a massive scale (e.g. Hitler killing 6,000,000+ Jews did NOT ultimately help Germany meet and/or achieve their objectives, but rather created a tidal wave of opposition).

This is why a nation cannot simply drop 500 atomic bombs on it's enemy to win a war. A nation must also win the hearts and minds of the people it seeks to conquer.

Such topics often lead to debate, in which the opposing ideologies can lead to various outcomes and bitterness.

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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

Another great issue. Angela going up against Harada is exciting stuff!

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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

One of my favourite aspects of this series, two issues in, is the amount of narrative writing that fleshes out everything from background details to character motivations to thematic concepts that drive the tale. None of it is superfluous, it all adds rich depth to the story. I love it.

I think it has become far too popular to write comics with absolutely no narration (or characters personal thoughts) - I don't think there is anything particularly clever about reducing the word counts and relying on the visuals to tell the broad strokes of the story in this modern era. We certainly don't need to read narrative captions that explain the action in the pictures they're contained in [as many old-school comics are often guilty of], but this medium is unique as a combination of literature & imagery - it would be nice if the industry as a whole would stop treating comics like they're TV shows or movies.

The most interesting use of it in this issue was to show the parallel between Toyo's behaviour as a child on that ship, and how driven he is currently in the face of surmounting odds stacked against him. But even beyond that, the exploration of the concept of fighting so uselessly and destructively against the forces of nature in his past sets the tone for the modern scenario as it plays out. I love the way that impacts my sense of anticipation and suspense over how this story will turn out for Toyo. It may yet lead to his actual physical death, or it may be more of a metaphorical one, but the ideas at play here lead me to care about this character as so much more than a simple villain. Will he learn his lesson in humility and find a path forward, or will he once again allow everything good around him that he has attempted to build be destroyed out of hubris? This is storytelling at its finest.

And the artwork by CAFU & Mico is all such a visual feast to indulge in...
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My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by kjjohanson »

grendeljd wrote:One of my favourite aspects of this series, two issues in, is the amount of narrative writing that fleshes out everything from background details to character motivations to thematic concepts that drive the tale. None of it is superfluous, it all adds rich depth to the story. I love it.

I think it has become far too popular to write comics with absolutely no narration (or characters personal thoughts) - I don't think there is anything particularly clever about reducing the word counts and relying on the visuals to tell the broad strokes of the story in this modern era. We certainly don't need to read narrative captions that explain the action in the pictures they're contained in [as many old-school comics are often guilty of], but this medium is unique as a combination of literature & imagery - it would be nice if the industry as a whole would stop treating comics like they're TV shows or movies.

The most interesting use of it in this issue was to show the parallel between Toyo's behaviour as a child on that ship, and how driven he is currently in the face of surmounting odds stacked against him. But even beyond that, the exploration of the concept of fighting so uselessly and destructively against the forces of nature in his past sets the tone for the modern scenario as it plays out. I love the way that impacts my sense of anticipation and suspense over how this story will turn out for Toyo. It may yet lead to his actual physical death, or it may be more of a metaphorical one, but the ideas at play here lead me to care about this character as so much more than a simple villain. Will he learn his lesson in humility and find a path forward, or will he once again allow everything good around him that he has attempted to build be destroyed out of hubris? This is storytelling at its finest.

And the artwork by CAFU & Mico is all such a visual feast to indulge in...
Reading the extra content in the pre-order edition was very interesting, in respect to the story with the ship. Has anyone else been keeping up with the text piece about Harada's life?
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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by kjjohanson »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:Another top notch issue from Dysart. LADOTH really highlights a lot of the mediocrity we’ve gotten used to over the past few years. This issue also reminds me that Kosol was killed off way too easily and perhaps it was a misstep taking him out of the universe.

Stupid question maybe, but do we think Harada will actually be killed off at the end of this mini? Surely they won’t kill VEI’s biggest bad guy? :?

5/5 - art and story delivers! :clap:
My expectation coming into the series is that Harada would somehow find a new body to host his consciousness and powers. So the body that people identify as Harada may die, but the character will live on. When Sunlight on Snow apologized to Gravedog, telling him that if he had had a choice in the matter, he would have told him, I thought that that's where we might be going. Still, time will tell…
Last edited by kjjohanson on Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:21:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

kjjohanson wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:Another top notch issue from Dysart. LADOTH really highlights a lot of the mediocrity we’ve gotten used to over the past few years. This issue also reminds me that Kosol was killed off way too easily and perhaps it was a misstep taking him out of the universe.

Stupid question maybe, but do we think Harada will actually be killed off at the end of this mini? Surely they won’t kill VEI’s biggest bad guy? :?

5/5 - art and story delivers! :clap:
My expectation coming into the series is that Harada would someone find a new body to host his consciousness and powers. So which the body that people identify as Harada may die, the character will live on. When Sunlight on Snow apologized to Gravedog, telling him that if he had had a choice in the matter, he would have told him, I though that that's where we might be going. Still, time will tell…
Interesting :hm: I hope he is still around in some form!

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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

kjjohanson wrote:
grendeljd wrote:One of my favourite aspects of this series, two issues in, is the amount of narrative writing that fleshes out everything from background details to character motivations to thematic concepts that drive the tale. None of it is superfluous, it all adds rich depth to the story. I love it.

I think it has become far too popular to write comics with absolutely no narration (or characters personal thoughts) - I don't think there is anything particularly clever about reducing the word counts and relying on the visuals to tell the broad strokes of the story in this modern era. We certainly don't need to read narrative captions that explain the action in the pictures they're contained in [as many old-school comics are often guilty of], but this medium is unique as a combination of literature & imagery - it would be nice if the industry as a whole would stop treating comics like they're TV shows or movies.

The most interesting use of it in this issue was to show the parallel between Toyo's behaviour as a child on that ship, and how driven he is currently in the face of surmounting odds stacked against him. But even beyond that, the exploration of the concept of fighting so uselessly and destructively against the forces of nature in his past sets the tone for the modern scenario as it plays out. I love the way that impacts my sense of anticipation and suspense over how this story will turn out for Toyo. It may yet lead to his actual physical death, or it may be more of a metaphorical one, but the ideas at play here lead me to care about this character as so much more than a simple villain. Will he learn his lesson in humility and find a path forward, or will he once again allow everything good around him that he has attempted to build be destroyed out of hubris? This is storytelling at its finest.

And the artwork by CAFU & Mico is all such a visual feast to indulge in...
Reading the extra content in the pre-order edition was very interesting, in respect to the story with the ship. Has anyone else been keeping up with the text piece about Harada's life?
This made me clue in just now that I did not get the pre-order set for this mini-series. I’ve got it on my LCS pull-list, but either I forgot to specify the pre-order editions or they didn’t set me up with them. Ugh!! :censored: :!:
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Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion

Post by kjjohanson »

grendeljd wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
grendeljd wrote:One of my favourite aspects of this series, two issues in, is the amount of narrative writing that fleshes out everything from background details to character motivations to thematic concepts that drive the tale. None of it is superfluous, it all adds rich depth to the story. I love it.

I think it has become far too popular to write comics with absolutely no narration (or characters personal thoughts) - I don't think there is anything particularly clever about reducing the word counts and relying on the visuals to tell the broad strokes of the story in this modern era. We certainly don't need to read narrative captions that explain the action in the pictures they're contained in [as many old-school comics are often guilty of], but this medium is unique as a combination of literature & imagery - it would be nice if the industry as a whole would stop treating comics like they're TV shows or movies.

The most interesting use of it in this issue was to show the parallel between Toyo's behaviour as a child on that ship, and how driven he is currently in the face of surmounting odds stacked against him. But even beyond that, the exploration of the concept of fighting so uselessly and destructively against the forces of nature in his past sets the tone for the modern scenario as it plays out. I love the way that impacts my sense of anticipation and suspense over how this story will turn out for Toyo. It may yet lead to his actual physical death, or it may be more of a metaphorical one, but the ideas at play here lead me to care about this character as so much more than a simple villain. Will he learn his lesson in humility and find a path forward, or will he once again allow everything good around him that he has attempted to build be destroyed out of hubris? This is storytelling at its finest.

And the artwork by CAFU & Mico is all such a visual feast to indulge in...
Reading the extra content in the pre-order edition was very interesting, in respect to the story with the ship. Has anyone else been keeping up with the text piece about Harada's life?
This made me clue in just now that I did not get the pre-order set for this mini-series. I’ve got it on my LCS pull-list, but either I forgot to specify the pre-order editions or they didn’t set me up with them. Ugh!! :censored: :!:
The text piece is in the format of an article about Harada, for which the author interviewed Harada sometime before the start of the Harbinger comic. It's not really giving anything away, but the author's comments about Harada's "recollection" of the events (or more specifically, how the situation ended) are completely different than what is relayed in the comic story.
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