Infinite Crisis Begins here...............Possible Spoilers

[Todd Luck]

That said, now that I've read it, I think that DC was being a bit generous when they said that you didn't have to read the minis to catch up on what's going on. It's just going to get more intricate when Donna Troy figures into it, as well. However, the very nature of going into continuity like I think this is going to requires a lot of knowledge. Of course, they could have published some sort of handbook or something to cover that.

A handbook?!? Who in the heck needs a handbook?!? a simple explanation would do. For the majority of the time comics have existed that's all that was neccessary for readers to understand what was going on.

Look, when I read the original Crisis on Infinite Crisis #1 it was atleast ten years after it came out. I knew nothing about the multiverse and I'ld never even heard of most of the characters in the first issue. Counting the ones from Earth 3, there was probably atleast twenty characters in there. But Wolfman took the time to introduce us to each. By the time I'ld the finished, I knew and understood who each character I read was and I cared about them. That wasn't that unusual at the time. That was how you wrote a good comic.

Like I said, I hope issue two does some recaps and does something to live up to the name it's got on the cover.

[Byrneout]

Just read Infinite Crisis #2.

No spoilers... just.. PAYOFF!

I'm *very* happy with this issue. It sets the goals for the conflict, establishes the identity of the key players, and gives one of the best motivations for a character to do something EVER.

Even if you had never read Crisis On Infinite Earths or the pre-Crisis DC universe, you would now be fully up to speed.

[speedracex]

I really enjoyed it too, I cant wait to see what happens, I also agree things are quite clear, even if you havent read the older story, its a fun time to be reading DC right now

[davidb]

I haven't read it yet, but I know that Johns had promised that by issue 2 you'd know everything you needed to to understand everything. Glad to see he delivered.

[Todd Luck]

Very light spoilers...

Issue two is better than one but it just explains what happened in the original Crisis (20 years ago) and in the Omac mini. That's it .

The art's greatly improved and looks wonderful but Power Girl's antanomy looks god awful . I can barely stand to look at her. What the hell happened?

They put a twist on the villians subplot, but the fact that the society of villians is falling for a ruse that obvious makes them seem even denser than the heroes.

And the Earth-One Superman's motivation is a big let down. I'm sure they're still going to have him be a catalyst for the heroes coming to their senses but before that we've got to through some convoluted crap that we know won't go anywhere. And his motivation has been done before, almost to the "T" (in a comic we frequently discuss on here, as a matter of fact )

And, oh, yeah more slaughter of minor characters. Oh joy

I'm still waiting for this thing to get going. At what point am I supposed to get excited? I really want to like this comic but they need to give me something to work with...

[x-omatic]

“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Or something like that.

[Byrneout]

Very light spoilers...

Issue two is better than one but it just explains what happened in the original Crisis (20 years ago) and in the Omac mini. That's it .

Uh... didn't it also explain where the characters have been in the meantime, why they are active now, and why there is a need for them to take action? I thought they also explained the general purposes of all the various factions that are off doing different things, and gave you a glimpse at how it is all connected.

They put a twist on the villians subplot, but the fact that the society of villians is falling for a ruse that obvious makes them seem even denser than the heroes.

Well, I think it's only obvious to us because we have the third person perspective. But that's neither here nor there.

And the Earth-One Superman's motivation is a big let down. I'm sure they're still going to have him be a catalyst for the heroes coming to their senses but before that we've got to through some convoluted crap that we know won't go anywhere. And his motivation has been done before, almost to the "T" (in a comic we frequently discuss on here, as a matter of fact )

Actually, I *love* Kal-L's reasoning. It makes perfect sense for that character, and although it does remind me of a certain story, there's enough going on that differentiates it.

And, oh, yeah more slaughter of minor characters. Oh joy

Er... what?

I just re-read the issue, and I seem to be missing this slaughter you are referring to... I saw a few robots get the crap kicked out of them, but hey - they're ROBOTS. Other than that, I think I saw one on-screen death of an Amazon... in the middle of a siege on Paradise Island by the OMAC's. Doesn't really add up to slaughter in my book.

I'm still waiting for this thing to get going. At what point am I supposed to get excited? I really want to like this comic but they need to give me something to work with...

Maybe you won't get excited. No big deal either way... if you like it, cool, if not, cool. I personally am enjoying it now, because I can see the various strands starting to come together.

Your mileage may vary.

[Todd Luck]

Very light spoilers...

Issue two is better than one but it just explains what happened in the original Crisis (20 years ago) and in the Omac mini. That's it .

Uh... didn't it also explain where the characters have been in the meantime, why they are active now, and why there is a need for them to take action? I thought they also explained the general purposes of all the various factions that are off doing different things, and gave you a glimpse at how it is all connected.

They had atleast 6 seperate plotlines going in the first issue and they decided to explain two of them. The writer of the series promised new readers would know what's going on by issue 2. Maybe the specific events in the other plotlines weren't important?

They put a twist on the villians subplot, but the fact that the society of villians is falling for a ruse that obvious makes them seem even denser than the heroes.

Well, I think it's only obvious to us because we have the third person perspective. But that's neither here nor there.

I think you're refering to something else. I was refering to what Luthor said he wanted a member of the Marvel Family for. It's hillarious he's pitching something that absurd to his fellow villains and they're buying it. Maybe something in the Villians Unlimited miniseries makes this better but here it just sounds silly. Strangely enough this is the EXACT same scam/cover story Spider Carnage pulled in the last episodes of the Spiderman cartoon (it was funny there too )

And the Earth-One Superman's motivation is a big let down. I'm sure they're still going to have him be a catalyst for the heroes coming to their senses but before that we've got to through some convoluted crap that we know won't go anywhere. And his motivation has been done before, almost to the "T" (in a comic we frequently discuss on here, as a matter of fact )

Actually, I *love* Kal-L's reasoning. It makes perfect sense for that character, and although it does remind me of a certain story, there's enough going on that differentiates it.

I can't give too precise of a responce without just giving it away, but it's not a motivation I could ever see Superman having. It's a villian's motivation. He may be able to make it sound noble (just like that hero in that certain other story that it resembles ) but it's still him playing god. Plus we know he won't succeed and it's just a red harring (just like it was in that other story ).

And, oh, yeah more slaughter of minor characters. Oh joy

Er... what?

I just re-read the issue, and I seem to be missing this slaughter you are referring to... I saw a few robots get the crap kicked out of them, but hey - they're ROBOTS. Other than that, I think I saw one on-screen death of an Amazon... in the middle of a siege on Paradise Island by the OMAC's. Doesn't really add up to slaughter in my book.

It's on the page opposite of the one with Booster Gold. A whole group of second stringers is brutally slaughtered. All but one are very human.

[Todd Luck]

On the big gun DC is supposed to kill: it looks like they're making the most obvious canidates even more obvious. Synopsis for Flash's book keeps talking about how this could be the end of Wally West and then I can't find it solicited for Febuary. Wonder Woman's last issue is in Febuary and her synopsis keep talking about can she salvage herself from defeat blah. blah, blah.

If they do go with either character this would the third time either Diana or Wally have died in their current incarnation and the second time the Flash has been replaced due to death (and it would be the fourth person to call himself the Flash). Maybe they're just red harrings and they really have a surprise in store .

Oh and the Febuary solicitation for Action Comics, when talking about Superman and Lois of Earth 2, said "their love could bring about the end of the universe." LOL

C'mon if you're going to steal a Valiant tag line atleast do it from the miniseries you're already swiping from!

[davidb]

There are a lot of changes coming down the pike. Newsarama seems to have the best communication with DiDio. Here are some of the top tidbits:

Cancelled books
Flash (presumable relaunch)
Wonder Woman (presumable relaunch, I'll get back to it in a sec)
Gotham Central
Gotham Knights
Plastic Man
Superman (Adventures of Superman is being returned to being named Superman and will continue with its current numbering, which still continues from the original Superman #1)
JLA
Batgirl

Series Renames
Hawkman becomes Hawkgirl (by Walt Simonson and Howard Chaykin)
Legion of Super-Heroes becomes Supergirl and the Legion of Super Heroes
Aquaman becomes Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis

New books
Blue Beetle (by Keith Giffen, novelist John Rogers, and Cully Hamner)
Shadowpact (Bill Willingham writing and art)
Checkmate (Greg Rucka and Jesus Saiz)
Wonder Woman (Terry Dodson art)
Ion (Ron Marz and Greg Tocchini)

Crossovers
Geoff Johns & Kurt Busiek Action/Superman crossover
James Robinson Batman/Detective crossover


As for the big death? I think it's going to be Wonder Woman, and she'll be succeeded by Donna Troy. Donna's really been getting a lot of screen time lately, and DC's been hinting too much that Wally West will die.

[Todd Luck]

As for the big death? I think it's going to be Wonder Woman, and she'll be succeeded by Donna Troy. Donna's really been getting a lot of screen time lately, and DC's been hinting too much that Wally West will die.

Yeah but having a hero who has screwed up or been mind controlled redem themselves by sacrificing their life has become such a cliche at DC. Would they really be foolish enough to get rid Diana right when they're about to give her a movie? (The WW movie is still a go, right?)

[X-O HoboJoe]

Maybe "red harrings" the new DCU hero.

And DC is ripping the hell outta VH1, ain't they.

[tarheelmarine]

#3 is worth every penny-and we get to see the evil sides of the aging Superman and his co-horts.

[Todd Luck]

I wouldn't say it's worth every penny but I did feel less cheated when i got this one. Things actually happen! We get to briefly at glimpse some epic battles. The heros actually do things that are...heroic! We finally get some idea about what's really going on. Debree from something that blew up before the series began actually hits the ground (No I'm not kidding). Yeah, it's kind of a slow moving series.

They reveal who the villian is (or atleast who he appears to be) and we reveal that his overly obvious ruse was a ruse and give even more blantent hints at his purpose (I still can't believe they used a ruse that cliched and obvious in the villians subplot!). And these realizatons actually may give the Earth 2 Superman a chance to redem himself (since he's not evil, just easily duped). Didn't I say his motivation was a villian's motivation?

The real problem I'm having is that I still don't know what's going on with the space and Spectre subplots. They never really bothered explaining them. And I feel like all the important parts of those battles in Atlantis and Paradise Island are happening somewhere else (they may be for all I know, I'm just buying the miniseries, not the tie-ins).

But hey atleast it's better than the last Crisis sequel

[tarheelmarine]

I agree that the Spectre tie-in was not very easy to figure out, but I do know that the "explosion" you are talking about is the rock of eternity that was shattered by the Spectre.

I have found that the DC website gives you some info, and of course I have been going to Books-a-Million and reading whatever tie in issues for free. The Wonder Woman tie ins have been good, but the recent issue of JLA was not so good.

Jim Lee's cover for #3 was great, but the alternate cover was very good as well. This month actually posed a dilemna for me as to which cover to go with- in the end I went with Jim Lee's.

[Todd Luck]

I agree that the Spectre tie-in was not very easy to figure out, but I do know that the "explosion" you are talking about is the rock of eternity that was shattered by the Spectre.

Oh I know that. They actually bothered mentioning that in issue 1. What drew blanks is when they mentioned the Spectre was under a spell. Hell I even have one Day of Judgement tie-in issue and I have no idea what they're talking about

I'm sure it won't matter that much. We'll probably find out it's been caused by our master villian anyway and that the specific details aren't that important.

[davidb]

I don't have the books in front of me so I can't tell for sure, but I thought that the "spell" in particular tied in somehow to the new Eclipso' manipulation of the Spectre.

[Kino]

I got done reading issue 4 and why is it this series seems to moving rather slowly? It definitely is moving slower then Secret Wars and Crisis on Infinite Earths, at least to me.

[Todd Luck]

I got done reading issue 4 and why is it this series seems to moving rather slowly? It definitely is moving slower then Secret Wars and Crisis on Infinite Earths, at least to me.

It's slow? What? When something explodes before the first issue, it's debris doesn't hit the ground until issue 3! It's not moving slow we're just reading too fast

Did 4 ship last week? I missed it at my shop.

[Todd Luck]

I found issue 4.



The emperor really does have no clothes...

(Minor spoilers below)

We finally get the explanation that I kept saying we'ld get on the point of the 4 miniseries and how they tie together. Though I thought the exact details wouldn't seem so far fetched.

Our band of Pre-Crisis survivors are getting more pathetic by the issue. They're even dumber than their modern counterparts in this miniseries. Praying for a swift and merciful death for them

A major location in the DCU gets casually blown up (or atleast partly blown up) and more minor characters are slaughtered. Major characters may have died but the ending of the Superboy fight was so vague I have no idea what really happened (I guess it's a mystery they'll explain next issue? )

Another wierd thing was with all those disasters going on, why did 3 teams of heros respond to Superboy's distress call? Maybe Nightwing was lightening fast in informing them of the real threat and they were responding to that? But then why wouldn't they have mentioned that?

And Heaven just now puts Spectre in his place?!?! WTF? Did the arch-angel Michael take a friggin' vacation?

Oh, and not having read Superman since the mid-90's...what the hell happened to ma and pa Kent?!? Liposuction, hair die, and a face lift?

I really want to stick to with this one 'til the end. Some good writers in the 80's and 90's made me really care about these characters and I'ld like to see what happens to them. But, damn, is DC making this hard...

[x-omatic]

“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Or something like that.

Bump.......

[tarheelmarine]

I thought #4 was pretty good, it certainly explained and showed how all of the various mini-series tied in with the big event. It makes me want to go out and buy those issues on ebay.

I certainly like the line where pre-Crisis Luthor mentioned that, "A Luthor and Superman in the same room will always be at odds."

I too didn't really get the multi-flash team up on Superboy. I am taking it that the SpeedForce either a) destroyed Superboy or b) took him somewhere else. And if he did go somewhere else what effect will this have on Luthor's plans? Any ideas ToddLuck?

Finally, was the Psycho Pirate trying to get Shazam to the machine by having Black Adam call him?

On a side note, I bought this issue in another city and the LCS there had plenty of Infinite Crisis(IC), and there was plenty of talk on IC so DC certainly has everyone's interest peaked.

Hope everyone else out there is enjoying this miniseries.

[Todd Luck]

I too didn't really get the multi-flash team up on Superboy. I am taking it that the SpeedForce either a) destroyed Superboy or b) took him somewhere else. And if he did go somewhere else what effect will this have on Luthor's plans? Any ideas ToddLuck?

Finally, was the Psycho Pirate trying to get Shazam to the machine by having Black Adam call him?

What happened to Superboy and the Flashs was so vague, I have no idea. I assume this was done on purpose and it'll be revealed next issue. But it's a bad cliff hanger when I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to be in suspense about.

I don't think it affects Lex that much though it might get Superman 2 asking some questions. It looked like Superboy had already served his purpose in Lex's plan (lets face it, he's got a lot of brainwashed or really stupid pawns to act as his "muscle" to keep the heroes at bay, so S-boy is a little redundant there).

They made Black Adam summon all the energy they created through "destroying" magic by using the word "Shazam." How this worked, I have no clue. Maybe something printed elsewhere or next issue will reveal that, but there is so much psuedoscience going on here the writer pretty can have it do whatever he wants it too.

[siren3-4]

I too didn't really get the multi-flash team up on Superboy. I am taking it that the SpeedForce either a) destroyed Superboy or b) took him somewhere else. And if he did go somewhere else what effect will this have on Luthor's plans? Any ideas ToddLuck?

Finally, was the Psycho Pirate trying to get Shazam to the machine by having Black Adam call him?

What happened to Superboy and the Flashs was so vague, I have no idea. I assume this was done on purpose and it'll be revealed next issue. But it's a bad cliff hanger when I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to be in suspense about.

I don't think it affects Lex that much though it might get Superman 2 asking some questions. It looked like Superboy had already served his purpose in Lex's plan (lets face it, he's got a lot of brainwashed or really stupid pawns to act as his "muscle" to keep the heroes at bay, so S-boy is a little redundant there).

They made Black Adam summon all the energy they created through "destroying" magic by using the word "Shazam." How this worked, I have no clue. Maybe something printed elsewhere or next issue will reveal that, but there is so much psuedoscience going on here the writer pretty can have it do whatever he wants it too.

I think that Black Adam was the wizard Shazam's original champion that went evil.

[davidb]

Yep. Black Adam (or Teth-Adam as he was called then) was Shazam's original protege who turned to evil. Shazam took the power away and locked it in a necklace (at least according to Ordway's Power of Shazam, which I think is still canon). Adam's current host, Nathaniel Adam (again, I think) was an archaeologist with Billy Batson's parents. While exploring a new tomb in Egypt, Adam was caught by Billy's mother stealing artifacts. He killed the Batsons and wound up with half of a necklace containing Black Adam's power. The other half he stole from Billy (his mother had hidden it in a Mr. Tawky Tawny stuffed tiger). He put the pieces together and boom - Black Adam.

Edit - Forgot to mention, just like the Marvel family, Black Adam calls his powers now by calling Shazam's name.