Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

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Harbinger: Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

If anyone would like to hear our OTV:VCR podcast discussing/reviewing this issue, please follow the link;

http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr140/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks to any who listen in :thumb:
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Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by Keith »

Well, that sucker cooked with gas!

The H.A.R.D. Corps think they have Solomon cornered and move in for the capture. Turns out they have actually been played by Solomon, and have been used to unwittingly release the Stormbringer. Oops!

I thought that was a pretty good read, and all around a nice coda to what I presume is the end of this round of Harbinger until we get to Harbinger Wars 2. Which, as I think about it (and IMO) basically was the point of this series. Not to be an ongoing series focused on Pete and company, but a 8 - 9 issue arc that sets the stage and shows how Solomon’s machinations leads to HW 2. Hence, why Valiant made that title change to signify that Solomon is the renegade the series was about. I know it doesn’t achieve the storytelling heights of Dysarts run, but I’m going to say that, taken as a whole, Harbinger: Renegade was pretty good.

Now, if I had my way, I would have rearrange the order of this last arc to read like this: 5, 7, 8, 0, 6. I think the story would have flowed better with the Stormbringer issue at the end of the arc as the actual Zero issue.
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by Keith »

Ah crud, I took to long writing a separate post. Hopefully Greg can merge it with this one.
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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by TheeBaldMoose »

Keith wrote:Well, that sucker cooked with gas!

The H.A.R.D. Corps think they have Solomon cornered and move in for the capture. Turns out they have actually been played by Solomon, and have been used to unwittingly release the Stormbringer. Oops!

I thought that was a pretty good read, and all around a nice coda to what I presume is the end of this round of Harbinger until we get to Harbinger Wars 2. Which, as I think about it (and IMO) basically was the point of this series. Not to be an ongoing series focused on Pete and company, but a 8 - 9 issue arc that sets the stage and shows how Solomon’s machinations leads to HW 2. Hence, why Valiant made that title change to signify that Solomon is the renegade the series was about. I know it doesn’t achieve the storytelling heights of Dysarts run, but I’m going to say that, taken as a whole, Harbinger: Renegade was pretty good.

Now, if I had my way, I would have rearrange the order of this last arc to read like this: 5, 7, 8, 0, 6. I think the story would have flowed better with the Stormbringer issue at the end of the arc as the actual Zero issue.
I agree with what you're saying, but I'd make the reading order 5, 7, 8, 6, 0 instead of what you have, but I see what you've done there.

I also think we have one more arc before we get Harbinger Wars 2 #0, there is still more reading to go.
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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by WhoDoo »

Did they say that we are getting another arc yet?

I think the way Keith had it ordered would have been cool to have 6 at the end- To See Alpha in 0 and wonder what in the "French", just like the HARD Corps did in the issue would have been a cool experience, then give us #6.

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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by greg »

Keith wrote:Ah crud, I took to long writing a separate post. Hopefully Greg can merge it with this one.
Merged. :thumb:

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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by nonplayer »

I really enjoyed this 0 issue. One issue! it shouldn't have been a 0 issue.
But what ever. Might be a good idea to get a high variant for this as it's first appeance of storm bringer.
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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by WhoDoo »

nonplayer wrote:I really enjoyed this 0 issue. One issue! it shouldn't have been a 0 issue.
But what ever. Might be a good idea to get a high variant for this as it's first appeance of storm bringer.
#6 was first appearance of Strombringer, and some of those Variant's are going for some $$$.

I agree this should not have been a zero issue.
I think reading order and numbering should have been:
#5 >#5
#7 >#6
#8 >#7
#0 >#8
#6 >#0

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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by Keith »

WhoDoo wrote:Did they say that we are getting another arc yet?
Dinesh posted on Twitter when asked, and makes it sound like certainly no additional arc before HW2. But during or after? :idontknow:
WhoDoo wrote:I think the way Keith had it ordered would have been cool to have 6 at the end- To See Alpha in 0 and wonder what in the "French", just like the HARD Corps did in the issue would have been a cool experience, then give us #6.
Precisely my thoughts!
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Re: Harbinger: Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by Keith »

greg wrote:
Keith wrote:Ah crud, I took to long writing a separate post. Hopefully Greg can merge it with this one.
Merged. :thumb:
Thank you, sir!
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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

Keith wrote:
WhoDoo wrote:Did they say that we are getting another arc yet?
Dinesh posted on Twitter when asked, and makes it sound like certainly no additional arc before HW2. But during or after? :idontknow:
WhoDoo wrote:I think the way Keith had it ordered would have been cool to have 6 at the end- To See Alpha in 0 and wonder what in the "French", just like the HARD Corps did in the issue would have been a cool experience, then give us #6.
Precisely my thoughts!
We talked about both of these points on the podcast:

1] Having seen no Harbinger Renegade solicit in January & HW2 starting in May, that leaves only Feb/March/April to get another arc in before Harbinger Wars 2 starts. Seems unlikely, but I would expect to possibly see the next arc *co-inciding* with HW2!

2] I agree with Keith's reading order for Renegade: 5,7,8,0,6 would have been preferable to me.
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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

Very much enjoyed the issue. Although I have to say, as an editorial decision, having two names or monikers for the character could be confusing to readers.

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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by David_Cody »

When you see Peter so prominent on the cover, I expected to have him in the story. I was pretty surprised when the crew got their heads popped.

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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

David_Cody wrote:When you see Peter so prominent on the cover, I expected to have him in the story. I was pretty surprised when the crew got their heads popped.
Popped or disarmed? Hard to say. You see some kind of electrical discharge with no blood, and a moment later they are in thrall to Alpha. I always imagined a HardCorps implant self destruct to be a messy affair.

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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by jmatt »

One other minor gripe: I dislike the whole unrealistic "big gun" thing. Their firearms have three barrels at the muzzle. The bottom one doesn't even attach to anything on the main body. It's so Liefeld.

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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by agent_graves »

I'm missing the point....

Hard Corps...Why?
Solomon...Overrated villain!? Or is he the good guy!?
Harbinger Renegades...Not used properly!!!
Harada/Imperium....Where are you????
Stormbringer...Who Cares!?

:rant: OVER!!!!!!
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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

I thought this was easily the best issue of HR and the best issue written by Roberts for Valiant. I think having Ryp on art (I’d consider him A level status in the Valiant stable) made a big difference and I think if he were drawing the entire Renegade series then it would have enhanced what we’vecseen so far. I’ve made this point before, but I think Roberts has been unlucky with the art pairings he’s had with Valiant so far, both Lafuente and Robertson do not do him any justice on the books.

This might be a ‘book of the month’ candidate, lots of action and fast paced! :clap:

4.5/5 :thumb:

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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:I thought this was easily the best issue of HR and the best issue written by Roberts for Valiant. I think having Ryp on art (I’d consider him A level status in the Valiant stable) made a big difference and I think if he were drawing the entire Renegade series then it would have enhanced what we’vecseen so far. I’ve made this point before, but I think Roberts has been unlucky with the art pairings he’s had with Valiant so far, both Lafuente and Robertson do not do him any justice on the books.

This might be a ‘book of the month’ candidate, lots of action and fast paced! :clap:

4.5/5 :thumb:
I found it to be one of the two best issues Rafer has written for Harbinger Renegade. #6 being the other.

I agree with you about the artist pairing - Ryp is absolutely an 'A level' artist & one of my top favourites at Valiant. It makes a world of difference to see a story visually delivered by top talent.

But when I thought about what elements made this a good issue, I realized that there were no characters in it (other than 3 HARD Corps members) that we are really familiar with at all. Rafer isn't necessarily a bad writer, but I have felt that over his entire body of work at Valiant, he hasn't done a great job of writing the Valiant characters we know very well.

I think he did a much better job overall with A+A than he has with Harbinger, and even there his characterization of Armstrong was much stronger than that of Archer.

I gave this a 3.75/5 on VCR.
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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

grendeljd wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:I thought this was easily the best issue of HR and the best issue written by Roberts for Valiant. I think having Ryp on art (I’d consider him A level status in the Valiant stable) made a big difference and I think if he were drawing the entire Renegade series then it would have enhanced what we’vecseen so far. I’ve made this point before, but I think Roberts has been unlucky with the art pairings he’s had with Valiant so far, both Lafuente and Robertson do not do him any justice on the books.

This might be a ‘book of the month’ candidate, lots of action and fast paced! :clap:

4.5/5 :thumb:
I found it to be one of the two best issues Rafer has written for Harbinger Renegade. #6 being the other.

I agree with you about the artist pairing - Ryp is absolutely an 'A level' artist & one of my top favourites at Valiant. It makes a world of difference to see a story visually delivered by top talent.

But when I thought about what elements made this a good issue, I realized that there were no characters in it (other than 3 HARD Corps members) that we are really familiar with at all. Rafer isn't necessarily a bad writer, but I have felt that over his entire body of work at Valiant, he hasn't done a great job of writing the Valiant characters we know very well.

I think he did a much better job overall with A+A than he has with Harbinger, and even there his characterization of Armstrong was much stronger than that of Archer.

I gave this a 3.75/5 on VCR.
Just listened to VCR and as always you fellas bring out new observations and possible story links which enhances the read. :thumb: I agree that Roberts’ writing for Valiant hasn’t necessarily hit the heights we expect from the best books, I just meant that the art choices haven’t helped.

I enjoyed this book due to its self contained (sort of) nature, ie Hard Corps were sent on a mission that went horribly wrong. I’m going to read the book again now I’ve listened to VCR as I think I’ll enjoy it even more second time around.

*good to have you back on the podcast Josh :thumb:

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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

jmatt wrote:
David_Cody wrote:When you see Peter so prominent on the cover, I expected to have him in the story. I was pretty surprised when the crew got their heads popped.
Popped or disarmed? Hard to say. You see some kind of electrical discharge with no blood, and a moment later they are in thrall to Alpha. I always imagined a HardCorps implant self destruct to be a messy affair.
good point, I think ordinarily Hard Corps getting brain doofed is usually a bloody end of the road but I’m guessing the Stormbringers powers averted that in some way. My next thought though, is that are those Hard Corps now beyond saving ie if they get released from Stormbringers powers are they dead anyway as their brains have been popped? Presumably so :?

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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
jmatt wrote:
David_Cody wrote:When you see Peter so prominent on the cover, I expected to have him in the story. I was pretty surprised when the crew got their heads popped.
Popped or disarmed? Hard to say. You see some kind of electrical discharge with no blood, and a moment later they are in thrall to Alpha. I always imagined a HardCorps implant self destruct to be a messy affair.
good point, I think ordinarily Hard Corps getting brain doofed is usually a bloody end of the road but I’m guessing the Stormbringers powers averted that in some way. My next thought though, is that are those Hard Corps now beyond saving ie if they get released from Stormbringers powers are they dead anyway as their brains have been popped? Presumably so :?
Makes me nerd out & wonder what use those guys will be to Alpha - their powers are 'downloaded' from an outside source (Lifeline), would Alpha even be able to force them to tap into superpowers? I'm sure their Lifeline operators would not willfully help them... ultimately they would just be foot soldiers enthralled/enslaved to him, and their main usefulness to him would be that their opponents will actively be trying not to kill them while they are free to do whatever Alpha commands. Not a pretty situation, for sure.
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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by grendeljd »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
grendeljd wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:I thought this was easily the best issue of HR and the best issue written by Roberts for Valiant. I think having Ryp on art (I’d consider him A level status in the Valiant stable) made a big difference and I think if he were drawing the entire Renegade series then it would have enhanced what we’vecseen so far. I’ve made this point before, but I think Roberts has been unlucky with the art pairings he’s had with Valiant so far, both Lafuente and Robertson do not do him any justice on the books.

This might be a ‘book of the month’ candidate, lots of action and fast paced! :clap:

4.5/5 :thumb:
I found it to be one of the two best issues Rafer has written for Harbinger Renegade. #6 being the other.

I agree with you about the artist pairing - Ryp is absolutely an 'A level' artist & one of my top favourites at Valiant. It makes a world of difference to see a story visually delivered by top talent.

But when I thought about what elements made this a good issue, I realized that there were no characters in it (other than 3 HARD Corps members) that we are really familiar with at all. Rafer isn't necessarily a bad writer, but I have felt that over his entire body of work at Valiant, he hasn't done a great job of writing the Valiant characters we know very well.

I think he did a much better job overall with A+A than he has with Harbinger, and even there his characterization of Armstrong was much stronger than that of Archer.

I gave this a 3.75/5 on VCR.
Just listened to VCR and as always you fellas bring out new observations and possible story links which enhances the read. :thumb: I agree that Roberts’ writing for Valiant hasn’t necessarily hit the heights we expect from the best books, I just meant that the art choices haven’t helped.

I enjoyed this book due to its self contained (sort of) nature, ie Hard Corps were sent on a mission that went horribly wrong. I’m going to read the book again now I’ve listened to VCR as I think I’ll enjoy it even more second time around.

*good to have you back on the podcast Josh :thumb:
:high-five: Thanks man! It was nice to string together a couple of "appearances" :lol:
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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by Keith »

Couple of questions:

The Temple is South American of origin? How did it get stood up in China?
The monks that were guarding the temple/imprisoning the Alpha... Who? How? Why?
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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by DirtbagSailor »

Sometimes it takes me a few days... facepalm

My published review:

http://all-comic.com/2017/harbinger-renegade-0/

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Re: Harbinger Renegade #0 Discussion

Post by otomo »

Well then, just caught up on all of this. After a nice set up in 1-4... 5-8 was, uh, a bit weird, rushed, strange, I'm trying to be polite.

Zero actually helped solidify a lot of the stuff happening in those 4 issues, and was much better, though I'm really confused as to what editorial was thinking greenlighting 5-8. I'm happy to see more HARD Corps, but very strange how that was done.
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