preview of livewire aka Valiant suck now part 2

[syzhang28]

http://www.comicsbeat.com/extended-prev ... ivewire-1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

wow. just wow. two terrible previews in one day. this is also awful

- since when can livewire fly?
- why is the art so stilted? Where is the body language of raul allen
- livewire has convinced herself that she isnt a crazy terrorist?? she killed millions during hw2

[kinggirlfriend]

http://www.comicsbeat.com/extended-prev ... ivewire-1/

wow. just wow. two terrible previews in one day. this is also awful

- since when can livewire fly?
- why is the art so stilted? Where is the body language of raul allen
- livewire has convinced herself that she isnt a crazy terrorist?? she killed millions during hw2

The art looks fine. Raul Allen is awesome.

Amanda's been flying for a while, her suit lets her.

[jmatt]

If you don't know that Livewire developed a flight suit, you haven't been reading in a loong time.

And as was stated in the HW2 Aftermath, it wasn't millions. Did you read that one? The newscaster said "two hundred to two thousand", estimated.

As for the new stuff, I am content to read the books and judge for myself.

[SuperMage]

I'm shocked. This actually looks decent. Sounds like Vita is going to straight up retcon Livewire's actions during Harbinger Wars II. I'm okay with seeing Livewire's version of the event that could hopefully redeem her character. It'd be a good opportunity to bring back those cut scenes of Livewire maintain life support systems across the country. It's nice to see the Secret Weapons again after they disappeared off the face of the Earth during Harbinger Wars II. Looks like Vita is trying to just continue the narratives threads Eric established in Secret Weapons. I mean it'd be nice if Eric himself could keep writing for Valiant, but at least the new writer is clearly a fan of his work. I'm a little confused how Livewire can fly without her suit, but maybe flight is just part of her base powerset. Controlling radiowaves or some comic book BS. Does it really matter?

1/2. DMG/Valiant is at a 50% ratio so far.

[Ryan]

And as was stated in the HW2 Aftermath, it wasn't millions. Did you read that one? The newscaster said "two hundred to two thousand", estimated.

Wow she only killed "two hundred to two thousand" innocent people. What a hero

I'm a little confused how Livewire can fly without her suit, but maybe flight is just part of her base powerset. Controlling radiowaves or some comic book BS. Does it really matter?

It matters if it's supposed to be a good story that anyone cares about. But it doesn't seem like the new Valiant is too concerned about that.

[TheFerg714]

wow. just wow. two terrible previews in one day. this is also awful

What was the second one?

- since when can livewire fly?

For like a while now. Unity 17 I think?

- why is the art so stilted? Where is the body language of raul allen

I think it can be argued that his work has been better, but I'd say this is still solid and I can't wait to see what he does with it.

- livewire has convinced herself that she isnt a crazy terrorist?? she killed millions during hw2

Yea, this part I agree with. She's insane, and I do not trust her with power, which is unfortunate because she has so much.

[TheFerg714]

Wow she only killed "two hundred to two thousand" innocent people. What a hero
Exactly what I was thinking.

It matters if it's supposed to be a good story that anyone cares about. But it doesn't seem like the new Valiant is too concerned about that.

I think it's easily explainable with nanomachines, or some equivalent technology that can turn her orange supersuit into regular clothes, but still have the functionality. Hopefully it's explained in-universe though.

[WrathOfArmstrong]

Just read Vita's contribution to Cursed Comics Conclave last night. She did well with Wonder Woman, despite not having much room for the story to be anything special--is it too early to be scared DC would steal her away?


I think the preview is good, but then again, I've never gotten much out of these online previews.

[nonplayer]

She didnt have her suit on to allowe her to fly. And when a plane gets a gash people get sucked out not just one small kid.
I will be passing on this series. Amanda should have died for her atrocities to the globe.

[Ryan]

I think it's easily explainable with nanomachines, or some equivalent technology that can turn her orange supersuit into regular clothes, but still have the functionality. Hopefully it's explained in-universe though.

I don't have a problem with her flying, it's a superhero comic whatever. I also don't have a problem with her killing all those people, but what it does is that it makes her a villain. Ok, then make a good comic about a villain. Or if you don't want her to be a villain, make a redemption story where she pays her debt to society and becomes a hero again.

But to have her all the sudden being Supergirl saving people from planes and pretending like she wouldn't be the most famous person in the world and chased by every military and law enforcement agency out there is ridiculous IMO

[Shadowman99]

The apparently genuine disgust that some users on this board have in relation to Livewire's switch-off of the USA in HWII is really weird.
You folks do realise that that only happened in a comic book and not real life right?

[Aram]

The apparently genuine disgust that some users on this board have in relation to Livewire's switch-off of the USA in HWII is really weird.
You folks do realise that that only happened in a comic book and not real life right?

Comic books are real.

[Ryan]

The apparently genuine disgust that some users on this board have in relation to Livewire's switch-off of the USA in HWII is really weird.
You folks do realise that that only happened in a comic book and not real life right?

What a bunch of idiots! They actually have standards and want to enjoy the fiction they invest in. They should be like us smart guys who know comic books aren't real so we'll just throw our money at anything shiny.

[Aram]

Comic books are real. I’ve seen them!!

[SuperMage]

X-O Manowar invaded a sovereign nation, murdered the people who attempted to liberate it, from him, Major Palmer kills children for his paycheck, Peter Stancheck mindraped multiple people and lobotomized Dull Tull for fun, Shadowman killed his father, Rai and Lulu Lee inadvertently killed countless innocents when they liberated New Japan from Father, Generation Zero committed multiple acts of terrorism, held numerous innocents hostage, and took over an American city, and Armstrong is just a *SQUEE*.

If we're going to hold Livewire accountable for actions which may not even be canon after her new series begins, considering the new writer has been straight forward of her dislike for Harbinger Wars II, maybe we should do the same for every other Valiant character.

[jmatt]

Wow she only killed "two hundred to two thousand" innocent people.

I didn't say "only". I just pointed out that it wasn't "millions".

And for the record, I wasn't crazy about her actions in HW2, either. But there's no denying that it's added some drama around the character of Livewire. She may well eventually get her redemption story... or be forced back into the fold of Harada.

[Ryan]

Comic books are real. I’ve seen them!!

I know the real issue here is somebody (I won't say who) wanting a goat who's on a first name basis with the Legion of Superheroes.

[Ryan]

X-O Manowar invaded a sovereign nation, murdered the people who attempted to liberate it, from him, Major Palmer kills children for his paycheck, Peter Stancheck mindraped multiple people and lobotomized Dull Tull for fun, Shadowman killed his father, Rai and Lulu Lee inadvertently killed countless innocents when they liberated New Japan from Father, Generation Zero committed multiple acts of terrorism, held numerous innocents hostage, and took over an American city, and Armstrong is just a *SQUEE*.

If we're going to hold Livewire accountable for actions which may not even be canon after her new series begins, considering the new writer has been straight forward of her dislike for Harbinger Wars II, maybe we should do the same for every other Valiant character.

Dang, all that happened? Flawed characters are great but some of that sounds straight villainous. Who are the real heroes in the VEI universe then?

It doesn't make sense that HW2 isn't canon, the last part came out just last month from the same editors who are putting out Livewire

[jxm640]

X-O Manowar invaded a sovereign nation, murdered the people who attempted to liberate it, from him, Major Palmer kills children for his paycheck, Peter Stancheck mindraped multiple people and lobotomized Dull Tull for fun, Shadowman killed his father, Rai and Lulu Lee inadvertently killed countless innocents when they liberated New Japan from Father, Generation Zero committed multiple acts of terrorism, held numerous innocents hostage, and took over an American city, and Armstrong is just a *SQUEE*.

If we're going to hold Livewire accountable for actions which may not even be canon after her new series begins, considering the new writer has been straight forward of her dislike for Harbinger Wars II, maybe we should do the same for every other Valiant character.

Dang, all that happened? Flawed characters are great but some of that sounds straight villainous. Who are the real heroes in the VEI universe then?

It doesn't make sense that HW2 isn't canon, the last part came out just last month from the same editors who are putting out Livewire

The thing for me is that Valiant never truly had heroes or villains. In their own minds, the characters believed they were the heroes of their own story. Everyone believes/believed that they are working towards a greater good.

This is part of what drew me towards VEI, it was more about a clash of ideologies as opposed to just good vs evil. (Chris Chriswell not included)

In respect to the Livewire book, Vita Atalya is following this trend.

[Shadowman99]

X-O Manowar invaded a sovereign nation, murdered the people who attempted to liberate it, from him, Major Palmer kills children for his paycheck, Peter Stancheck mindraped multiple people and lobotomized Dull Tull for fun, Shadowman killed his father, Rai and Lulu Lee inadvertently killed countless innocents when they liberated New Japan from Father, Generation Zero committed multiple acts of terrorism, held numerous innocents hostage, and took over an American city, and Armstrong is just a *SQUEE*.

If we're going to hold Livewire accountable for actions which may not even be canon after her new series begins, considering the new writer has been straight forward of her dislike for Harbinger Wars II, maybe we should do the same for every other Valiant character.

Dang, all that happened? Flawed characters are great but some of that sounds straight villainous. Who are the real heroes in the VEI universe then?

It doesn't make sense that HW2 isn't canon, the last part came out just last month from the same editors who are putting out Livewire

The thing for me is that Valiant never truly had heroes or villains. In their own minds, the characters believed they were the heroes of their own story. Everyone believes/believed that they are working towards a greater good.

This is part of what drew me towards VEI, it was more about a clash of ideologies as opposed to just good vs evil.

I think it was pretty clear throughout the entirety of HWII that the entire conflict centred upon opposing ideologies with each party believing they were acting in the best interests of large constituents, so I think it's pretty difficult for anyone to be able to point a finger at any given character/group in the series with certainty and claim 'they were the villain'.

At least VEI are staying true to their 'moral grey area' tenent to date, HWII included

[WrathOfArmstrong]

X-O Manowar invaded a sovereign nation, murdered the people who attempted to liberate it, from him, Major Palmer kills children for his paycheck, Peter Stancheck mindraped multiple people and lobotomized Dull Tull for fun, Shadowman killed his father, Rai and Lulu Lee inadvertently killed countless innocents when they liberated New Japan from Father, Generation Zero committed multiple acts of terrorism, held numerous innocents hostage, and took over an American city, and Armstrong is just a *SQUEE*.

If we're going to hold Livewire accountable for actions which may not even be canon after her new series begins, considering the new writer has been straight forward of her dislike for Harbinger Wars II, maybe we should do the same for every other Valiant character.

Dang, all that happened? Flawed characters are great but some of that sounds straight villainous. Who are the real heroes in the VEI universe then?

It doesn't make sense that HW2 isn't canon, the last part came out just last month from the same editors who are putting out Livewire

The thing for me is that Valiant never truly had heroes or villains. In their own minds, the characters believed they were the heroes of their own story. Everyone believes/believed that they are working towards a greater good.

This is part of what drew me towards VEI, it was more about a clash of ideologies as opposed to just good vs evil.

I think it was pretty clear throughout the entirety of HWII that the entire conflict centred upon opposing ideologies with each party believing they were acting in the best interests of large constituents, so I think it's pretty difficult for anyone to be able to point a finger at any given character/group in the series with certainty and claim 'they were the villain'.

At least VEI are staying true to their 'moral grey area' tenent to date, HWII included

well said.

I didn't like HWII but it Livewire's attack wasn't the stumbling block.

[Ryan]

The thing for me is that Valiant never truly had heroes or villains. In their own minds, the characters believed they were the heroes of their own story. Everyone believes/believed that they are working towards a greater good.

This is part of what drew me towards VEI, it was more about a clash of ideologies as opposed to just good vs evil. (Chris Chriswell not included)

In respect to the Livewire book, Vita Atalya is following this trend.

I get that, I'm not saying stories need to be black vs. white good vs. evil, but every story needs a protagonist who is the 'hero of the story' - the person who the reader identifies with and is rooting for.

They don't have to be puritanical, but I feel like a lot of times these things (for example Livewire killing thousands of innocents) are done purely for shock value without considering how it would logically play out or how it affects the reader's identification with the main character.

I think it was pretty clear throughout the entirety of HWII that the entire conflict centred upon opposing ideologies with each party believing they were acting in the best interests of large constituents, so I think it's pretty difficult for anyone to be able to point a finger at any given character/group in the series with certainty and claim 'they were the villain'.

At least VEI are staying true to their 'moral grey area' tenent to date, HWII included [/color]

I don't think anything was very clear in HW2, but I agree Livewire wasn't being portrayed as a villain despite her actions that would be extremely villainous in the 'real world'. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

[Shadowman99]

I think it was pretty clear throughout the entirety of HWII that the entire conflict centred upon opposing ideologies with each party believing they were acting in the best interests of large constituents, so I think it's pretty difficult for anyone to be able to point a finger at any given character/group in the series with certainty and claim 'they were the villain'.

At least VEI are staying true to their 'moral grey area' tenent to date, HWII included

I don't think anything was very clear in HW2, but I agree Livewire wasn't being portrayed as a villain despite her actions that would be extremely villainous in the 'real world'. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

I'm okay with that

[markie7235]

X-O Manowar invaded a sovereign nation, murdered the people who attempted to liberate it, from him, Major Palmer kills children for his paycheck, Peter Stancheck mindraped multiple people and lobotomized Dull Tull for fun, Shadowman killed his father, Rai and Lulu Lee inadvertently killed countless innocents when they liberated New Japan from Father, Generation Zero committed multiple acts of terrorism, held numerous innocents hostage, and took over an American city, and Armstrong is just a *SQUEE*.

If we're going to hold Livewire accountable for actions which may not even be canon after her new series begins, considering the new writer has been straight forward of her dislike for Harbinger Wars II, maybe we should do the same for every other Valiant character.

Dang, all that happened? Flawed characters are great but some of that sounds straight villainous. Who are the real heroes in the VEI universe then?

It doesn't make sense that HW2 isn't canon, the last part came out just last month from the same editors who are putting out Livewire

This actually harkens back to the original VH1 days also, and that was part of what attracted people to Valiant in the first place. Where Marvel and DC were really Good vs Evil, Valiant dealt more with people who come to grips with new found power they shouldn't have and don't know how to handle. It was more about internal personal conflict and lots of shades of grey.

For example, Solar gains his power and is now basically a God, but he botches things royally. I mean, if you pay attention to the underlying story in issues 1-10, he basically killed every single person on earth than destroyed the planet. He just happened to reform it also with his power, but it wasn't the same, he had changed it forever.

Magnus struggles with the idea of killing free will robots and starts coming to the conclusion that despite being machines, they are alive just like humans but in a different way. So he basically comes to grips that he was a mass murderer of millions of innocents who did nothing wrong except gain free will from their creators.

Harbinger was a story of kids with power playing with fire and not really understanding what they were doing. As a result, Torque dies. The VEI version is basically the same, but instead of Torque it's Flamingo who dies.

Flawed characters has been a staple of Valiant forever. Most of the characters early on in the Shooter days committed atrocities as they struggled with their powers, much like any normal person would who suddenly can do incredible things but have no concept of how to properly use those powers. I think the reason Amanda's actions are so reprehensible to many is for most of the VEI days, she tended to have a very strong moral compass. For example, once she realized that Harada was a monster who would kill millions to elevate psiots, she turned on him....but in HW2 she basically became him. It's out of character for her considering how opposed she was to Harada when he was going to do it. I'm curious if Harada would be proud of her or ashamed of her for her actions in HW2

[IMJ]

It seems like more and more what's taken for modern comic art is to imitate the style that Mike Allred made popular with Madman almost 30 years ago now. I see it a lot, although I have a hard time labeling it - some sort of minimalist style. It's not bad, but it's relatively bland. I feel like most Image books look like this nowadays too. This is the art style that appeals to people who wear berets in coffee houses and discuss whimsical nonsense with some kind of poetic lilt to their voice.

I mean... the art isn't bad by any means. But it isn't grabbing or incredibly interesting either. I think Livewire is an interesting, deep-cut character that is really cool being pushed to the forefront a bit. But given the state of Valiant as a whole, it's not interesting enough to buy as a yuppie book following an incoherent and widely cancelled and rebooted Universe only six years into their publishing life.

Think about it - we could all have been vested in the 75th issue celebration (figuring from June-ish, 2012) of several Valiant books either this month or so, had the publisher not joined into the manipulative reboot strategy the likes of other publishers. Valiant could have "Savage Dragon'd" it, and they'd be better off for it. And now we have a Livewire book. I would've been excited about this had it launched a few months after Harbinger (2012).

Now I am only praying that Sony Studios pumps out a Universe and reinvigorates interest in old-school Valiant where I think forever forward my interests will reside.