Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
Moderators: Daniel Jackson, greg
- DirtbagSailor
- I only know how to fish, f^%k, fight, and throw rocks
- Posts: 5047
- Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:27:03 am
- Valiant fan since: 1993
- Favorite character: Harada
- Favorite title: Imperium
- Location: Maryland
Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
As fantastic as LADOTH #1 was (is), LADOTH #2 is even BETTER!
This IS the story Valiant Fans have waited for.
This IS the series you read, collect, and remember as the gold standard of all things Valiant!
This IS the story Valiant Fans have waited for.
This IS the series you read, collect, and remember as the gold standard of all things Valiant!
DBS
MY COLLECTION: http://tinyurl.com/DBSValiantCollection
MY CAF PAGE: http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerydeta ... cat=100809
MY COLLECTION: http://tinyurl.com/DBSValiantCollection
MY CAF PAGE: http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerydeta ... cat=100809
- DirtbagSailor
- I only know how to fish, f^%k, fight, and throw rocks
- Posts: 5047
- Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:27:03 am
- Valiant fan since: 1993
- Favorite character: Harada
- Favorite title: Imperium
- Location: Maryland
- grendeljd
- innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51:43 am
- Valiant fan since: 1991
- Favorite character: Aric
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
Oh man, I have the early review/preview of this issue too, but haven't had a moment to read it yet... gah!! Can't wait!
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Get those scissors away from my coupons
- Posts: 342
- Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:04:27 pm
- Valiant fan since: 2017
- Favorite character: XO Manowar
- Favorite title: XO Manowar
- Favorite writer: Matt Kindt
- Favorite artist: Tomas Giorello
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
I said XO was about perfect... this also was about perfect. If valiant could just keep books like the three of these coming out like we had this week, you know, it'd be pretty awesome.
Like XO Manowar or Conan The Barbarian? Check out my new graphic novel, DEUS VULT on IndieGoGo now: Deus Vult: http://igg.me/at/deusvult.
-
- Get those scissors away from my coupons
- Posts: 342
- Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:04:27 pm
- Valiant fan since: 2017
- Favorite character: XO Manowar
- Favorite title: XO Manowar
- Favorite writer: Matt Kindt
- Favorite artist: Tomas Giorello
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
Oh I thought I was discussing #1 when this was #2. These threads are getting confusing now that so many folk are getting pre-release copies, I don't know what's being discussed. My comment still stands though, perfect book.
Like XO Manowar or Conan The Barbarian? Check out my new graphic novel, DEUS VULT on IndieGoGo now: Deus Vult: http://igg.me/at/deusvult.
- grendeljd
- innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51:43 am
- Valiant fan since: 1991
- Favorite character: Aric
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
If anyone would like to hear our OTV:VCR podcast discussing/reviewing this issue [& Livewire #5], please follow the link;
http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr201/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks to any who listen in
http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr201/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks to any who listen in
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Dallow Spicer1
- Rockin' out in Torquehalla
- Posts: 2456
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19:05 am
- Valiant fan since: Mid 90's
- Favorite character: X-O
- Favorite title: X-O
- Favorite writer: V-Ditti & Dysart
- Favorite artist: Larosa
- Location: United Kingdom
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
Another top notch issue from Dysart. LADOTH really highlights a lot of the mediocrity we’ve gotten used to over the past few years. This issue also reminds me that Kosol was killed off way too easily and perhaps it was a misstep taking him out of the universe.
Stupid question maybe, but do we think Harada will actually be killed off at the end of this mini? Surely they won’t kill VEI’s biggest bad guy?
5/5 - art and story delivers!
Stupid question maybe, but do we think Harada will actually be killed off at the end of this mini? Surely they won’t kill VEI’s biggest bad guy?
5/5 - art and story delivers!
- DirtbagSailor
- I only know how to fish, f^%k, fight, and throw rocks
- Posts: 5047
- Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:27:03 am
- Valiant fan since: 1993
- Favorite character: Harada
- Favorite title: Imperium
- Location: Maryland
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
Jace & DBS discuss The Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 (again) on the Valiant Sunday episode of The Comic Source:
https://lrmonline.com/?powerpress_pinw=134336-podcast
https://lrmonline.com/?powerpress_pinw=134336-podcast
DBS
MY COLLECTION: http://tinyurl.com/DBSValiantCollection
MY CAF PAGE: http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerydeta ... cat=100809
MY COLLECTION: http://tinyurl.com/DBSValiantCollection
MY CAF PAGE: http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerydeta ... cat=100809
- DirtbagSailor
- I only know how to fish, f^%k, fight, and throw rocks
- Posts: 5047
- Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:27:03 am
- Valiant fan since: 1993
- Favorite character: Harada
- Favorite title: Imperium
- Location: Maryland
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
DBS’s (SPOILER FREE) Rating =
DBS
MY COLLECTION: http://tinyurl.com/DBSValiantCollection
MY CAF PAGE: http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerydeta ... cat=100809
MY COLLECTION: http://tinyurl.com/DBSValiantCollection
MY CAF PAGE: http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerydeta ... cat=100809
- agent_graves
- Just jumpin' through time arcs, that's all.
- Posts: 1754
- Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:34:56 pm
- Valiant fan since: Since VEI(Turok #1?)
- Favorite character: Divinity/Shadowman/LiveWire
- Favorite title: Divinity/Imperium/Ninjak
- Favorite writer: Kindt/Lemire/Dysart
- Favorite artist: Mann/Cafu/De la Torre
- Location: North Carolina
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
+1 Nuff Said!!!!DirtbagSailor wrote:As fantastic as LADOTH #1 was (is), LADOTH #2 is even BETTER!
This IS the story Valiant Fans have waited for.
This IS the series you read, collect, and remember as the gold standard of all things Valiant!
#StayValiant
-
- Working on the first full appearance of me
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:29:52 pm
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
Ive read through all of Dysarts work to date but I'm struggling a bit on Toyos choice not to provide Angela Vessel with her request, especially considering the critical junction hes in. Toyo has always struck me as someone who would tactically make small sacrifices to his morals in order to service the bigger picture.
Can someone enlighten me on why he would do so many other things but the 'Factory' is crossing the line?
Can someone enlighten me on why he would do so many other things but the 'Factory' is crossing the line?
- DirtbagSailor
- I only know how to fish, f^%k, fight, and throw rocks
- Posts: 5047
- Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:27:03 am
- Valiant fan since: 1993
- Favorite character: Harada
- Favorite title: Imperium
- Location: Maryland
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
Yes.mullinsmcd wrote:Ive read through all of Dysarts work to date but I'm struggling a bit on Toyos choice not to provide Angela Vessel with her request, especially considering the critical junction hes in. Toyo has always struck me as someone who would tactically make small sacrifices to his morals in order to service the bigger picture.
Can someone enlighten me on why he would do so many other things but the 'Factory' is crossing the line?
Many people have ZERO ethical issue with killing opposition (enemy combatant) forces on a battlefield, while at the same time, they DO take serious ethical issue with killing of the innocent (non-combatants). While Harada is clearly one of the most powerful Psiots in the VU, he is also human, and has a internal moral compass that incorporates 80+ years of witnessing horrific events (to include watching his own mother basically burn/melt in front of him). Harada is NOT a soulless and/or emotionless monster willing to allow himself to look so far into the abyss that he becomes worse than what he seeks to prevent.
Angela may be arguably "correct" from a mechanical perspective where morals, souls, and emotions do not exist; however, if Harada plans to rule the world, 1.) he needs to ensure after all of his actions are complete, that a world worth ruling remains, and 2.) that the people to be ruled are not instantly united against Harada’s for his actions.
Soldiers die in battle. People (most people) will understand this truth. FEW people will agree to or understand this "Factory." Such an action not only would spark further action against The Foundation (rebellions, revolution, civil war, etc), but further embolden and/or justify such action on a massive scale (e.g. Hitler killing 6,000,000+ Jews did NOT ultimately help Germany meet and/or achieve their objectives, but rather created a tidal wave of opposition).
This is why a nation cannot simply drop 500 atomic bombs on it's enemy to win a war. A nation must also win the hearts and minds of the people it seeks to conquer.
Such topics often lead to debate, in which the opposing ideologies can lead to various outcomes and bitterness.
DBS
MY COLLECTION: http://tinyurl.com/DBSValiantCollection
MY CAF PAGE: http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerydeta ... cat=100809
MY COLLECTION: http://tinyurl.com/DBSValiantCollection
MY CAF PAGE: http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerydeta ... cat=100809
- jmatt
- Mmm, I was drooling over Cooshie tonight.
- Posts: 11026
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:41:10 pm
- Location: Lehigh Valley, PA!
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
Another great issue. Angela going up against Harada is exciting stuff!
- grendeljd
- innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51:43 am
- Valiant fan since: 1991
- Favorite character: Aric
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
One of my favourite aspects of this series, two issues in, is the amount of narrative writing that fleshes out everything from background details to character motivations to thematic concepts that drive the tale. None of it is superfluous, it all adds rich depth to the story. I love it.
I think it has become far too popular to write comics with absolutely no narration (or characters personal thoughts) - I don't think there is anything particularly clever about reducing the word counts and relying on the visuals to tell the broad strokes of the story in this modern era. We certainly don't need to read narrative captions that explain the action in the pictures they're contained in [as many old-school comics are often guilty of], but this medium is unique as a combination of literature & imagery - it would be nice if the industry as a whole would stop treating comics like they're TV shows or movies.
The most interesting use of it in this issue was to show the parallel between Toyo's behaviour as a child on that ship, and how driven he is currently in the face of surmounting odds stacked against him. But even beyond that, the exploration of the concept of fighting so uselessly and destructively against the forces of nature in his past sets the tone for the modern scenario as it plays out. I love the way that impacts my sense of anticipation and suspense over how this story will turn out for Toyo. It may yet lead to his actual physical death, or it may be more of a metaphorical one, but the ideas at play here lead me to care about this character as so much more than a simple villain. Will he learn his lesson in humility and find a path forward, or will he once again allow everything good around him that he has attempted to build be destroyed out of hubris? This is storytelling at its finest.
And the artwork by CAFU & Mico is all such a visual feast to indulge in...
I think it has become far too popular to write comics with absolutely no narration (or characters personal thoughts) - I don't think there is anything particularly clever about reducing the word counts and relying on the visuals to tell the broad strokes of the story in this modern era. We certainly don't need to read narrative captions that explain the action in the pictures they're contained in [as many old-school comics are often guilty of], but this medium is unique as a combination of literature & imagery - it would be nice if the industry as a whole would stop treating comics like they're TV shows or movies.
The most interesting use of it in this issue was to show the parallel between Toyo's behaviour as a child on that ship, and how driven he is currently in the face of surmounting odds stacked against him. But even beyond that, the exploration of the concept of fighting so uselessly and destructively against the forces of nature in his past sets the tone for the modern scenario as it plays out. I love the way that impacts my sense of anticipation and suspense over how this story will turn out for Toyo. It may yet lead to his actual physical death, or it may be more of a metaphorical one, but the ideas at play here lead me to care about this character as so much more than a simple villain. Will he learn his lesson in humility and find a path forward, or will he once again allow everything good around him that he has attempted to build be destroyed out of hubris? This is storytelling at its finest.
And the artwork by CAFU & Mico is all such a visual feast to indulge in...
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- kjjohanson
- Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
- Posts: 4999
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:52:13 pm
- Valiant fan since: Magnus #1
- Favorite character: Anon-Lurker
- Favorite title: Archer & Armstrong
- Favorite writer: Fred Van Lente
- Location: Astoria, NY
- Contact:
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
Reading the extra content in the pre-order edition was very interesting, in respect to the story with the ship. Has anyone else been keeping up with the text piece about Harada's life?grendeljd wrote:One of my favourite aspects of this series, two issues in, is the amount of narrative writing that fleshes out everything from background details to character motivations to thematic concepts that drive the tale. None of it is superfluous, it all adds rich depth to the story. I love it.
I think it has become far too popular to write comics with absolutely no narration (or characters personal thoughts) - I don't think there is anything particularly clever about reducing the word counts and relying on the visuals to tell the broad strokes of the story in this modern era. We certainly don't need to read narrative captions that explain the action in the pictures they're contained in [as many old-school comics are often guilty of], but this medium is unique as a combination of literature & imagery - it would be nice if the industry as a whole would stop treating comics like they're TV shows or movies.
The most interesting use of it in this issue was to show the parallel between Toyo's behaviour as a child on that ship, and how driven he is currently in the face of surmounting odds stacked against him. But even beyond that, the exploration of the concept of fighting so uselessly and destructively against the forces of nature in his past sets the tone for the modern scenario as it plays out. I love the way that impacts my sense of anticipation and suspense over how this story will turn out for Toyo. It may yet lead to his actual physical death, or it may be more of a metaphorical one, but the ideas at play here lead me to care about this character as so much more than a simple villain. Will he learn his lesson in humility and find a path forward, or will he once again allow everything good around him that he has attempted to build be destroyed out of hubris? This is storytelling at its finest.
And the artwork by CAFU & Mico is all such a visual feast to indulge in...
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
- kjjohanson
- Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
- Posts: 4999
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:52:13 pm
- Valiant fan since: Magnus #1
- Favorite character: Anon-Lurker
- Favorite title: Archer & Armstrong
- Favorite writer: Fred Van Lente
- Location: Astoria, NY
- Contact:
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
My expectation coming into the series is that Harada would somehow find a new body to host his consciousness and powers. So the body that people identify as Harada may die, but the character will live on. When Sunlight on Snow apologized to Gravedog, telling him that if he had had a choice in the matter, he would have told him, I thought that that's where we might be going. Still, time will tell…Dallow Spicer1 wrote:Another top notch issue from Dysart. LADOTH really highlights a lot of the mediocrity we’ve gotten used to over the past few years. This issue also reminds me that Kosol was killed off way too easily and perhaps it was a misstep taking him out of the universe.
Stupid question maybe, but do we think Harada will actually be killed off at the end of this mini? Surely they won’t kill VEI’s biggest bad guy?
5/5 - art and story delivers!
Last edited by kjjohanson on Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:21:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
- Dallow Spicer1
- Rockin' out in Torquehalla
- Posts: 2456
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19:05 am
- Valiant fan since: Mid 90's
- Favorite character: X-O
- Favorite title: X-O
- Favorite writer: V-Ditti & Dysart
- Favorite artist: Larosa
- Location: United Kingdom
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
Interesting I hope he is still around in some form!kjjohanson wrote:My expectation coming into the series is that Harada would someone find a new body to host his consciousness and powers. So which the body that people identify as Harada may die, the character will live on. When Sunlight on Snow apologized to Gravedog, telling him that if he had had a choice in the matter, he would have told him, I though that that's where we might be going. Still, time will tell…Dallow Spicer1 wrote:Another top notch issue from Dysart. LADOTH really highlights a lot of the mediocrity we’ve gotten used to over the past few years. This issue also reminds me that Kosol was killed off way too easily and perhaps it was a misstep taking him out of the universe.
Stupid question maybe, but do we think Harada will actually be killed off at the end of this mini? Surely they won’t kill VEI’s biggest bad guy?
5/5 - art and story delivers!
- grendeljd
- innerSPACE does whatever I tell them
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51:43 am
- Valiant fan since: 1991
- Favorite character: Aric
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Location: On the 7.5th floor of LesterCorp, headed through the back door to John Malkovich's brain.
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
This made me clue in just now that I did not get the pre-order set for this mini-series. I’ve got it on my LCS pull-list, but either I forgot to specify the pre-order editions or they didn’t set me up with them. Ugh!!kjjohanson wrote:Reading the extra content in the pre-order edition was very interesting, in respect to the story with the ship. Has anyone else been keeping up with the text piece about Harada's life?grendeljd wrote:One of my favourite aspects of this series, two issues in, is the amount of narrative writing that fleshes out everything from background details to character motivations to thematic concepts that drive the tale. None of it is superfluous, it all adds rich depth to the story. I love it.
I think it has become far too popular to write comics with absolutely no narration (or characters personal thoughts) - I don't think there is anything particularly clever about reducing the word counts and relying on the visuals to tell the broad strokes of the story in this modern era. We certainly don't need to read narrative captions that explain the action in the pictures they're contained in [as many old-school comics are often guilty of], but this medium is unique as a combination of literature & imagery - it would be nice if the industry as a whole would stop treating comics like they're TV shows or movies.
The most interesting use of it in this issue was to show the parallel between Toyo's behaviour as a child on that ship, and how driven he is currently in the face of surmounting odds stacked against him. But even beyond that, the exploration of the concept of fighting so uselessly and destructively against the forces of nature in his past sets the tone for the modern scenario as it plays out. I love the way that impacts my sense of anticipation and suspense over how this story will turn out for Toyo. It may yet lead to his actual physical death, or it may be more of a metaphorical one, but the ideas at play here lead me to care about this character as so much more than a simple villain. Will he learn his lesson in humility and find a path forward, or will he once again allow everything good around him that he has attempted to build be destroyed out of hubris? This is storytelling at its finest.
And the artwork by CAFU & Mico is all such a visual feast to indulge in...
I like to draw stuff... http://grendeljd.deviantart.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My wife likes to draw stuff too, and she is better than me! [I'm very proud of her]... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sara-Dec ... ref=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- kjjohanson
- Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
- Posts: 4999
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:52:13 pm
- Valiant fan since: Magnus #1
- Favorite character: Anon-Lurker
- Favorite title: Archer & Armstrong
- Favorite writer: Fred Van Lente
- Location: Astoria, NY
- Contact:
Re: Life and Death of Toyo Harada #2 Discussion
The text piece is in the format of an article about Harada, for which the author interviewed Harada sometime before the start of the Harbinger comic. It's not really giving anything away, but the author's comments about Harada's "recollection" of the events (or more specifically, how the situation ended) are completely different than what is relayed in the comic story.grendeljd wrote:This made me clue in just now that I did not get the pre-order set for this mini-series. I’ve got it on my LCS pull-list, but either I forgot to specify the pre-order editions or they didn’t set me up with them. Ugh!!kjjohanson wrote:Reading the extra content in the pre-order edition was very interesting, in respect to the story with the ship. Has anyone else been keeping up with the text piece about Harada's life?grendeljd wrote:One of my favourite aspects of this series, two issues in, is the amount of narrative writing that fleshes out everything from background details to character motivations to thematic concepts that drive the tale. None of it is superfluous, it all adds rich depth to the story. I love it.
I think it has become far too popular to write comics with absolutely no narration (or characters personal thoughts) - I don't think there is anything particularly clever about reducing the word counts and relying on the visuals to tell the broad strokes of the story in this modern era. We certainly don't need to read narrative captions that explain the action in the pictures they're contained in [as many old-school comics are often guilty of], but this medium is unique as a combination of literature & imagery - it would be nice if the industry as a whole would stop treating comics like they're TV shows or movies.
The most interesting use of it in this issue was to show the parallel between Toyo's behaviour as a child on that ship, and how driven he is currently in the face of surmounting odds stacked against him. But even beyond that, the exploration of the concept of fighting so uselessly and destructively against the forces of nature in his past sets the tone for the modern scenario as it plays out. I love the way that impacts my sense of anticipation and suspense over how this story will turn out for Toyo. It may yet lead to his actual physical death, or it may be more of a metaphorical one, but the ideas at play here lead me to care about this character as so much more than a simple villain. Will he learn his lesson in humility and find a path forward, or will he once again allow everything good around him that he has attempted to build be destroyed out of hubris? This is storytelling at its finest.
And the artwork by CAFU & Mico is all such a visual feast to indulge in...
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.