What I'd Like To See From VALIANT

[Man-of-The-Atom]

I'd like to see an event in which it is revealed that the VEI iterations of the VALIANT characters are the same ones as the "VH 1" iterations, just changed.

In the original VALIANT, the mantra in the Solar comics was that everything in the universe is energy, "it's all in how you move it".

That would include people.

I'd posit that, at one point, something happened in VH 1 that changed the people from matter to energy back to matter, resulting in their transformation from the VH 1 iterations to the current VEI ones (it could even be the "magic ink" from Unity 2000...).

I wouldn't want to see a reboot, just for VALIANT to peel a new layer of its universe to reveal a new truth.

At the end of it, I'd like to see the tone of the current comics embrace the tone of the original VALIANT Universe (i.e. world outside your window, dead is dead, hard science, strong continuity, etc), as well as pick up and continue the original character arcs (i.e. Obadiah Archer is a prophet in training, learning the "meaning of life" and such from an immortal, etc).

[Chiclo]

Part of me thinks that this reboot could not be any worse than the backwash that Valiant is today.

Part of me cringes at the thought of tainting VH1 storylines with what Valiant has produced in the last several years.

It would be awkward without Solar.

[Man-of-The-Atom]

Part of me thinks that this reboot could not be any worse than the backwash that Valiant is today.

Part of me cringes at the thought of tainting VH1 storylines with what Valiant has produced in the last several years.

It would be awkward without Solar.

I wish Phil Seleski could be divorced from Solar and be turned into his own character in the VALIANT Universe.

The indicia in the old comics was very clear when it said that all new characters belonged to Voyager and not Gold Key, but clearly something happened since then given that Seleski showed up in one or two other iterations of Solar not published by VALIANT.

In this scenario, Phil could have been transformed into Divinity even...

[Chiclo]

In this scenario, Phil could have been transformed into Divinity even...

Divinity could meet Seleski as an equal, like the meeting between Solar and Void in Deathmate, without the sexual tension.

Divinity could be hosting some sort of Solar alt, like the Destroyer or... whatever the Deathmate one was called. I cannot remember that detail off the top of my head.

I don't think any of this is worth pursuing on the part of DMG Valiant. Not even the 90s nostalgia has the currency it did a few years ago.

[Ryan]

I'd like to see an event in which it is revealed that the VEI iterations of the VALIANT characters are the same ones as the "VH 1" iterations, just changed.

I don't know that an event would be needed. There seems to be such little continuity that's carried through the VEI era that it feels like there's already been a number of soft reboots. I think another soft reboot could be done which refocuses on the core titles and any explanations could be explained in the course of the story.

In the original VALIANT, the mantra in the Solar comics was that everything in the universe is energy, "it's all in how you move it".

That would include people.

I'd posit that, at one point, something happened in VH 1 that changed the people from matter to energy back to matter, resulting in their transformation from the VH 1 iterations to the current VEI ones (it could even be the "magic ink" from Unity 2000...).

I wouldn't want to see a reboot, just for VALIANT to peel a new layer of its universe to reveal a new truth.

VALIANT has already been treated as a multiverse in VH2 and U2k, and time travel is readily accepted. There's lots of ways to explain how a new version would start. I would lean toward a new 'Alpha and Omega' type event, or something that disrupted or changed the original Alpha and Omega to cause a bunch of anomalies/variations.

Similar to what you're saying, it's a way to keep everything as canon while still moving forward with different versions of the characters or a new continuity.

At the end of it, I'd like to see the tone of the current comics embrace the tone of the original VALIANT Universe (i.e. world outside your window, dead is dead, hard science, strong continuity, etc), as well as pick up and continue the original character arcs (i.e. Obadiah Archer is a prophet in training, learning the "meaning of life" and such from an immortal, etc).

I agree with this. I think for that to happen a strong story bible would have to be created that really defines the parameters of the fictional reality and sets guidelines for how it's different than other comic book/fictional universes. Could you get top talent to write within those parameters? Probably not. But that's one thing that set pre-Unity apart from all other VALIANT comics, the most important thing was creating a tight fictional world, not catering to the needs of 'stars' to help sell books.

[Ryan]

Part of me thinks that this reboot could not be any worse than the backwash that Valiant is today.

Part of me cringes at the thought of tainting VH1 storylines with what Valiant has produced in the last several years.

It would be awkward without Solar.

I wish Phil Seleski could be divorced from Solar and be turned into his own character in the VALIANT Universe.

The indicia in the old comics was very clear when it said that all new characters belonged to Voyager and not Gold Key, but clearly something happened since then given that Seleski showed up in one or two other iterations of Solar not published by VALIANT.

In this scenario, Phil could have been transformed into Divinity even...

I agree a Solar-type character is key to the universe. The whole explanation of the VH1 universe's creation is that Phil became an energy being and subconsciously re-created the universe with his childhood love for comic books factored in.

I don't think this character needs to be Phil Seleski or Gold Key Doctor Solar. This type of atomic/energy character is already an archetype with a ton of variations. Even Doctor Manhattan from Watchmen is a variation on Captain Atom, which is very similar to Dr. Solar and a number of other characters going all the way back to the Golden Age.

This could easily be recreated by using a public domain character (for example https://pdsh.fandom.com/wiki/Atoman) or even better creating a new variation that is similar but wouldn't have to be licensed. The change could also be explained as an 'anomaly' in the multiverse or an effect of the very thing that disrupted the original Alpha and Omega event.

[Ryan]

[
I don't think any of this is worth pursuing on the part of DMG Valiant. Not even the 90s nostalgia has the currency it did a few years ago.

Even though I love to think about it, my practical side tends to agree with this. The number of times VALIANT has tried to re-market itself to comic readers is already mind boggling. I have to think a large portion of comic readers wouldn't listen to yet another one.

[Man-of-The-Atom]

In this scenario, Phil could have been transformed into Divinity even...

Divinity could meet Seleski as an equal, like the meeting between Solar and Void in Deathmate, without the sexual tension.

Divinity could be hosting some sort of Solar alt, like the Destroyer or... whatever the Deathmate one was called. I cannot remember that detail off the top of my head.

I don't think any of this is worth pursuing on the part of DMG Valiant. Not even the 90s nostalgia has the currency it did a few years ago.

The Solar in Deathmate was the Explorer.

[Man-of-The-Atom]

I'd like to see an event in which it is revealed that the VEI iterations of the VALIANT characters are the same ones as the "VH 1" iterations, just changed.

I don't know that an event would be needed. There seems to be such little continuity that's carried through the VEI era that it feels like there's already been a number of soft reboots. I think another soft reboot could be done which refocuses on the core titles and any explanations could be explained in the course of the story.

In the original VALIANT, the mantra in the Solar comics was that everything in the universe is energy, "it's all in how you move it".

That would include people.

I'd posit that, at one point, something happened in VH 1 that changed the people from matter to energy back to matter, resulting in their transformation from the VH 1 iterations to the current VEI ones (it could even be the "magic ink" from Unity 2000...).

I wouldn't want to see a reboot, just for VALIANT to peel a new layer of its universe to reveal a new truth.

VALIANT has already been treated as a multiverse in VH2 and U2k, and time travel is readily accepted. There's lots of ways to explain how a new version would start. I would lean toward a new 'Alpha and Omega' type event, or something that disrupted or changed the original Alpha and Omega to cause a bunch of anomalies/variations.

Similar to what you're saying, it's a way to keep everything as canon while still moving forward with different versions of the characters or a new continuity.

At the end of it, I'd like to see the tone of the current comics embrace the tone of the original VALIANT Universe (i.e. world outside your window, dead is dead, hard science, strong continuity, etc), as well as pick up and continue the original character arcs (i.e. Obadiah Archer is a prophet in training, learning the "meaning of life" and such from an immortal, etc).

I agree with this. I think for that to happen a strong story bible would have to be created that really defines the parameters of the fictional reality and sets guidelines for how it's different than other comic book/fictional universes. Could you get top talent to write within those parameters? Probably not. But that's one thing that set pre-Unity apart from all other VALIANT comics, the most important thing was creating a tight fictional world, not catering to the needs of 'stars' to help sell books.

I'd like to see VALIANT streamline its continuity by addressing all those changes, concluding with the reveal of the one and true iterations of these characters, meaning the pre Unity ones. But without ignoring what came after.

[Man-of-The-Atom]

Part of me thinks that this reboot could not be any worse than the backwash that Valiant is today.

Part of me cringes at the thought of tainting VH1 storylines with what Valiant has produced in the last several years.

It would be awkward without Solar.

I wish Phil Seleski could be divorced from Solar and be turned into his own character in the VALIANT Universe.

The indicia in the old comics was very clear when it said that all new characters belonged to Voyager and not Gold Key, but clearly something happened since then given that Seleski showed up in one or two other iterations of Solar not published by VALIANT.

In this scenario, Phil could have been transformed into Divinity even...

I agree a Solar-type character is key to the universe. The whole explanation of the VH1 universe's creation is that Phil became an energy being and subconsciously re-created the universe with his childhood love for comic books factored in.

I don't think this character needs to be Phil Seleski or Gold Key Doctor Solar. This type of atomic/energy character is already an archetype with a ton of variations. Even Doctor Manhattan from Watchmen is a variation on Captain Atom, which is very similar to Dr. Solar and a number of other characters going all the way back to the Golden Age.

This could easily be recreated by using a public domain character (for example https://pdsh.fandom.com/wiki/Atoman) or even better creating a new variation that is similar but wouldn't have to be licensed. The change could also be explained as an 'anomaly' in the multiverse or an effect of the very thing that disrupted the original Alpha and Omega event.

Ideally they'd make it Seleski.

Maybe make it a Buried Alien-type deal, in which such a character has no memory of their prior life. That would help avoid making any direct references to Solar or Seleski. We'd know it's him even if the writing never directly addresses it.

[lorddunlow]

In this scenario, Phil could have been transformed into Divinity even...

Divinity could meet Seleski as an equal, like the meeting between Solar and Void in Deathmate, without the sexual tension.

Divinity could be hosting some sort of Solar alt, like the Destroyer or... whatever the Deathmate one was called. I cannot remember that detail off the top of my head.

I don't think any of this is worth pursuing on the part of DMG Valiant. Not even the 90s nostalgia has the currency it did a few years ago.

Or with the sexual tension... Either way.

[corey]

Sad to say, but you all probably did more thinking and caring about valiant in this topic than anything valiant has put out in years.

[Man-of-The-Atom]

Sad to say, but you all probably did more thinking and caring about valiant in this topic than anything valiant has put out in years.

VALIANT needs creatives that care so they can produce work that attracts audiences that care.

[Ryan]

I'd like to see VALIANT streamline its continuity by addressing all those changes, concluding with the reveal of the one and true iterations of these characters, meaning the pre Unity ones. But without ignoring what came after.

I agree with that. They need to get back to the core of characters that actually worked. Part of the problem with having people who were never VALIANT fans in charge of the comics is that they tend to look at the past properties more or less equally, without knowing which ones the fans actually liked. Which is why we get things like Psi-lords.

I'd be curious to know what your core titles would be. I'm thinking:
1. Phil Seleski (Atomman)
2. Harbinger
3. X-O (although almost feels like he needs to be on the sidelines for a while)
4. Shadowman (OG Jack Boniface) (not going to happen because the Zero (VH2) version is getting another video game)
5. Bloodshot (Mortalli)
6. Geomancer (Geoff McHenry)
7. Eternal Warrior
8. A and A

I think Ninjak has potential, but don't see him as a core character.

[Ryan]

Sad to say, but you all probably did more thinking and caring about valiant in this topic than anything valiant has put out in years.

VALIANT needs creatives that care so they can produce work that attracts audiences that care.

Totally agree with both statements.

[armlessphelan]

4. Shadowman (OG Jack Boniface) (not going to happen because the Zero (VH2) version is getting another video game)

I thought the new game was about Jack. It wouldn't make sense for DMG to license out VH2 characters when they want to make money off of modern stuff.

Also, what I'd like to see from Valiant is more than one book a month, and a run that lasts longer than 4 issues. I would love to reinvest in this universe, but I haven't bought a damn thing since, like, issue 6 of the most recent Shadowman run.

[Ryan]

4. Shadowman (OG Jack Boniface) (not going to happen because the Zero (VH2) version is getting another video game)

I thought the new game was about Jack. It wouldn't make sense for DMG to license out VH2 characters when they want to make money off of modern stuff.

VEI Shadowman is named Jack Boniface but is much more similar to the Vh2 Zero version of the character than the original Vh1 Creole Jack Boniface.

[Man-of-The-Atom]

I'd like to see VALIANT streamline its continuity by addressing all those changes, concluding with the reveal of the one and true iterations of these characters, meaning the pre Unity ones. But without ignoring what came after.

I agree with that. They need to get back to the core of characters that actually worked. Part of the problem with having people who were never VALIANT fans in charge of the comics is that they tend to look at the past properties more or less equally, without knowing which ones the fans actually liked. Which is why we get things like Psi-lords.

I'd be curious to know what your core titles would be. I'm thinking:
1. Phil Seleski (Atomman)
2. Harbinger
3. X-O (although almost feels like he needs to be on the sidelines for a while)
4. Shadowman (OG Jack Boniface) (not going to happen because the Zero (VH2) version is getting another video game)
5. Bloodshot (Mortalli)
6. Geomancer (Geoff McHenry)
7. Eternal Warrior
8. A and A

I think Ninjak has potential, but don't see him as a core character.

We need Solar and Magnus for sure.

I'd have to think about it.

[Ryan]

I'd like to see VALIANT streamline its continuity by addressing all those changes, concluding with the reveal of the one and true iterations of these characters, meaning the pre Unity ones. But without ignoring what came after.

I agree with that. They need to get back to the core of characters that actually worked. Part of the problem with having people who were never VALIANT fans in charge of the comics is that they tend to look at the past properties more or less equally, without knowing which ones the fans actually liked. Which is why we get things like Psi-lords.

I'd be curious to know what your core titles would be. I'm thinking:
1. Phil Seleski (Atomman)
2. Harbinger
3. X-O (although almost feels like he needs to be on the sidelines for a while)
4. Shadowman (OG Jack Boniface) (not going to happen because the Zero (VH2) version is getting another video game)
5. Bloodshot (Mortalli)
6. Geomancer (Geoff McHenry)
7. Eternal Warrior
8. A and A

I think Ninjak has potential, but don't see him as a core character.

We need Solar and Magnus for sure.

I'd have to think about it.

If they have the Gold Key license, definitely. If not I would personally put the future stuff on the back burner, even though I love it. The Russ Manning version of the future could still be used though, and is Vh1 canon.

[Man-of-The-Atom]

I'd like to see VALIANT streamline its continuity by addressing all those changes, concluding with the reveal of the one and true iterations of these characters, meaning the pre Unity ones. But without ignoring what came after.

I agree with that. They need to get back to the core of characters that actually worked. Part of the problem with having people who were never VALIANT fans in charge of the comics is that they tend to look at the past properties more or less equally, without knowing which ones the fans actually liked. Which is why we get things like Psi-lords.

I'd be curious to know what your core titles would be. I'm thinking:
1. Phil Seleski (Atomman)
2. Harbinger
3. X-O (although almost feels like he needs to be on the sidelines for a while)
4. Shadowman (OG Jack Boniface) (not going to happen because the Zero (VH2) version is getting another video game)
5. Bloodshot (Mortalli)
6. Geomancer (Geoff McHenry)
7. Eternal Warrior
8. A and A

I think Ninjak has potential, but don't see him as a core character.

We need Solar and Magnus for sure.

I'd have to think about it.

If they have the Gold Key license, definitely. If not I would personally put the future stuff on the back burner, even though I love it. The Russ Manning version of the future could still be used though, and is Vh1 canon.

While I do think there needs to be a core to VALIANT, it might be time to infuse it with new characters. Maybe even revive some of the original ideas from VH 2. Stagnation equals death, and that's all we'll get by continuing to build VALIANT around the same 18 titles introduced in the '90s.

They need new ideas that expand on what they already have.

I wouldn't mind seeing Troublemakers and Trinity Angels done right.

[Ryan]

While I do think there needs to be a core to VALIANT, it might be time to infuse it with new characters. Maybe even revive some of the original ideas from VH 2. Stagnation equals death, and that's all we'll get by continuing to build VALIANT around the same 18 titles introduced in the '90s.

They need new ideas that expand on what they already have.

I wouldn't mind seeing Troublemakers and Trinity Angels done right.

No disagreement from me. The actual characters and concepts used are secondary to the execution by far. What I think has really been missed is how the early VALIANT comics were executed and what they placed emphasis on. I think actually establishing the tone and building a solid readership of one comic would be the best way, then expanding from there organically. Easier said than done.

[Man-of-The-Atom]

While I do think there needs to be a core to VALIANT, it might be time to infuse it with new characters. Maybe even revive some of the original ideas from VH 2. Stagnation equals death, and that's all we'll get by continuing to build VALIANT around the same 18 titles introduced in the '90s.

They need new ideas that expand on what they already have.

I wouldn't mind seeing Troublemakers and Trinity Angels done right.

No disagreement from me. The actual characters and concepts used are secondary to the execution by far. What I think has really been missed is how the early VALIANT comics were executed and what they placed emphasis on. I think actually establishing the tone and building a solid readership of one comic would be the best way, then expanding from there organically. Easier said than done.

Definitely.

Mulling over your question, so far I've come up with the idea that the core of the VALIANT Universe (sans Solar, Magnus, and Turok) should be the first three original VALIANT heroes,

Rai
Harbinger
X-O Manowar.

Everything should be built around them.

With that in mind, the rest can be broken as follows,

The Immortal Family

Eternal Warrior
Timewalker
Archer & Armstrong

The solo heroes

Shadowman
Bloodshot
Ninjak
Geomancer
The Second Life of Dr. Mirage
The Visitor

Team books

Armorines
HARD Corps
Secret Weapons
Psi-Lords

[JCP]

While I do think there needs to be a core to VALIANT, it might be time to infuse it with new characters. Maybe even revive some of the original ideas from VH 2. Stagnation equals death, and that's all we'll get by continuing to build VALIANT around the same 18 titles introduced in the '90s.

They need new ideas that expand on what they already have.

I wouldn't mind seeing Troublemakers and Trinity Angels done right.

No disagreement from me. The actual characters and concepts used are secondary to the execution by far. What I think has really been missed is how the early VALIANT comics were executed and what they placed emphasis on. I think actually establishing the tone and building a solid readership of one comic would be the best way, then expanding from there organically. Easier said than done.

Definitely.

Mulling over your question, so far I've come up with the idea that the core of the VALIANT Universe (sans Solar, Magnus, and Turok) should be the first three original VALIANT heroes,

Rai
Harbinger
X-O Manowar.

Everything should be built around them.

With that in mind, the rest can be broken as follows,

The Immortal Family

Eternal Warrior
Timewalker
Archer & Armstrong

The solo heroes

Shadowman
Bloodshot
Ninjak
Geomancer
The Second Life of Dr. Mirage
The Visitor

Team books

Armorines
HARD Corps
Secret Weapons
Psi-Lords

And Divinity? I’d add to the top three.

[Chiclo]

While I do think there needs to be a core to VALIANT, it might be time to infuse it with new characters. Maybe even revive some of the original ideas from VH 2. Stagnation equals death, and that's all we'll get by continuing to build VALIANT around the same 18 titles introduced in the '90s.

They need new ideas that expand on what they already have.

I wouldn't mind seeing Troublemakers and Trinity Angels done right.

No disagreement from me. The actual characters and concepts used are secondary to the execution by far. What I think has really been missed is how the early VALIANT comics were executed and what they placed emphasis on. I think actually establishing the tone and building a solid readership of one comic would be the best way, then expanding from there organically. Easier said than done.

Definitely.

Mulling over your question, so far I've come up with the idea that the core of the VALIANT Universe (sans Solar, Magnus, and Turok) should be the first three original VALIANT heroes,

Rai
Harbinger
X-O Manowar.

Everything should be built around them.

With that in mind, the rest can be broken as follows,

The Immortal Family

Eternal Warrior
Timewalker
Archer & Armstrong

The solo heroes

Shadowman
Bloodshot
Ninjak
Geomancer
The Second Life of Dr. Mirage
The Visitor

Team books

Armorines
HARD Corps
Secret Weapons
Psi-Lords

No Quantum and Woody?

[Man-of-The-Atom]

While I do think there needs to be a core to VALIANT, it might be time to infuse it with new characters. Maybe even revive some of the original ideas from VH 2. Stagnation equals death, and that's all we'll get by continuing to build VALIANT around the same 18 titles introduced in the '90s.

They need new ideas that expand on what they already have.

I wouldn't mind seeing Troublemakers and Trinity Angels done right.

No disagreement from me. The actual characters and concepts used are secondary to the execution by far. What I think has really been missed is how the early VALIANT comics were executed and what they placed emphasis on. I think actually establishing the tone and building a solid readership of one comic would be the best way, then expanding from there organically. Easier said than done.

Definitely.

Mulling over your question, so far I've come up with the idea that the core of the VALIANT Universe (sans Solar, Magnus, and Turok) should be the first three original VALIANT heroes,

Rai
Harbinger
X-O Manowar.

Everything should be built around them.

With that in mind, the rest can be broken as follows,

The Immortal Family

Eternal Warrior
Timewalker
Archer & Armstrong

The solo heroes

Shadowman
Bloodshot
Ninjak
Geomancer
The Second Life of Dr. Mirage
The Visitor

Team books

Armorines
HARD Corps
Secret Weapons
Psi-Lords

No Quantum and Woody?

I still think of that one as VH 2. But I guess it would fit in the team section.