Serious question...what did Heather Antos actually *do*?

[ManofTheAtom]

And the blabbering and circular logic continues... But where it used to the mania on a ratio of 15:100 maniacs to normal and relatively silent majority while cities burned, now it's down to the three or four remnant posters who simply can't see or explain - gasp- the world outside their window.

Clearly a lot happened while I was in the Phantom Zone...

[lorddunlow]

In the '90s, VALIANT managed to do inclusion and diversity considerably better than most comic books, TV shows, and movies do today.

Actually, 90s scifi/geek culture did diversity and inclusion much better than most things now.

Think of all the female led action movies that weren't just vehicles for sexual exploitation. Ensemble casts in TV and movies that reflected the reality of the demographics of the nation in natural and organic ways.

DS9 is a great example. Black commander/captain, single father that didn't constantly beat you over the head reminding you that he's "the black Star Trek captain." The only time race is discussed is when they time travel to the past. Religion/terrorism is looked at in such subtle ways. I wish we could have that kind of representation in media. Instead we get tribalism and capitalist corporate entities pandering to various tribes to trick them into consuming their work in the short term.



Sent from my Pixel Fold using Tapatalk

[ManofTheAtom]

In the '90s, VALIANT managed to do inclusion and diversity considerably better than most comic books, TV shows, and movies do today.

Actually, 90s scifi/geek culture did diversity and inclusion much better than most things now.

Think of all the female led action movies that weren't just vehicles for sexual exploitation. Ensemble casts in TV and movies that reflected the reality of the demographics of the nation in natural and organic ways.

DS9 is a great example. Black commander/captain, single father that didn't constantly beat you over the head reminding you that he's "the black Star Trek captain." The only time race is discussed is when they time travel to the past. Religion/terrorism is looked at in such subtle ways. I wish we could have that kind of representation in media. Instead we get tribalism and capitalist corporate entities pandering to various tribes to trick them into consuming their work in the short term.



Sent from my Pixel Fold using Tapatalk

Absolutely.

Diversity and inclusion back then were natural. Today, it's exploitative.

[Chiclo]

In the '90s, VALIANT managed to do inclusion and diversity considerably better than most comic books, TV shows, and movies do today.

Actually, 90s scifi/geek culture did diversity and inclusion much better than most things now.

Think of all the female led action movies that weren't just vehicles for sexual exploitation. Ensemble casts in TV and movies that reflected the reality of the demographics of the nation in natural and organic ways.

DS9 is a great example. Black commander/captain, single father that didn't constantly beat you over the head reminding you that he's "the black Star Trek captain." The only time race is discussed is when they time travel to the past. Religion/terrorism is looked at in such subtle ways. I wish we could have that kind of representation in media. Instead we get tribalism and capitalist corporate entities pandering to various tribes to trick them into consuming their work in the short term.



Sent from my Pixel Fold using Tapatalk

Absolutely.

Diversity and inclusion back then were natural. Today, it's exploitative.

You asked earlier what woke meant. There it is. Exploitative diversity and inclusion, through an oppresser/oppressed lens.

[ManofTheAtom]

In the '90s, VALIANT managed to do inclusion and diversity considerably better than most comic books, TV shows, and movies do today.

Actually, 90s scifi/geek culture did diversity and inclusion much better than most things now.

Think of all the female led action movies that weren't just vehicles for sexual exploitation. Ensemble casts in TV and movies that reflected the reality of the demographics of the nation in natural and organic ways.

DS9 is a great example. Black commander/captain, single father that didn't constantly beat you over the head reminding you that he's "the black Star Trek captain." The only time race is discussed is when they time travel to the past. Religion/terrorism is looked at in such subtle ways. I wish we could have that kind of representation in media. Instead we get tribalism and capitalist corporate entities pandering to various tribes to trick them into consuming their work in the short term.



Sent from my Pixel Fold using Tapatalk

Absolutely.

Diversity and inclusion back then were natural. Today, it's exploitative.

You asked earlier what woke meant. There it is. Exploitative diversity and inclusion, through an oppresser/oppressed lens.

Yeah, definitely.

[nycjadie]

This issue isn't a new one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... ssissippi/

In April 1970, members of Mississippi’s newly formed State Commission for Educational Television met to discuss Big Bird and Cookie Monster.

“Sesame Street” had debuted on public TV the previous November, and the earliest episodes would look familiar today: cartoons about the letter O, counting exercises with ice cream cones and Ernie singing in the bathtub.

But the all-White commission decided Mississippi was “not yet ready for it,” according to one member, because it showed Black and White kids playing together. In a 3-2 vote, the commission banned “Sesame Street” from broadcasting on the state-run ETV network.

“The state has enough problems to face up to without adding to them,” an anonymous member of the commission, which was appointed by segregationist Gov. John Bell Williams (D), told the Associated Press.

[ManofTheAtom]

This issue isn't a new one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... ssissippi/

In April 1970, members of Mississippi’s newly formed State Commission for Educational Television met to discuss Big Bird and Cookie Monster.

“Sesame Street” had debuted on public TV the previous November, and the earliest episodes would look familiar today: cartoons about the letter O, counting exercises with ice cream cones and Ernie singing in the bathtub.

But the all-White commission decided Mississippi was “not yet ready for it,” according to one member, because it showed Black and White kids playing together. In a 3-2 vote, the commission banned “Sesame Street” from broadcasting on the state-run ETV network.

“The state has enough problems to face up to without adding to them,” an anonymous member of the commission, which was appointed by segregationist Gov. John Bell Williams (D), told the Associated Press.

Indeed.

From what I've gathered, true diversity and inclusion is something like Xena, Gabrielle, Hercules, and Iolaus standing together as equals (one is no more important than the other), while wokeness is Xena and Gabrielle constantly accusing Hercules' and Iolaus' genitals of oppressing them.

[The Harbinger]

This issue isn't a new one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... ssissippi/

In April 1970, members of Mississippi’s newly formed State Commission for Educational Television met to discuss Big Bird and Cookie Monster.

“Sesame Street” had debuted on public TV the previous November, and the earliest episodes would look familiar today: cartoons about the letter O, counting exercises with ice cream cones and Ernie singing in the bathtub.

But the all-White commission decided Mississippi was “not yet ready for it,” according to one member, because it showed Black and White kids playing together. In a 3-2 vote, the commission banned “Sesame Street” from broadcasting on the state-run ETV network.

“The state has enough problems to face up to without adding to them,” an anonymous member of the commission, which was appointed by segregationist Gov. John Bell Williams (D), told the Associated Press.

Indeed.

From what I've gathered, true diversity and inclusion is something like Xena, Gabrielle, Hercules, and Iolaus standing together as equals (one is no more important than the other), while wokeness is Xena and Gabrielle constantly accusing Hercules' and Iolaus' genitals of oppressing them.

I don't know if wokeness has to be so egregious that it's complaining about genitals, but we can analyze a scale in our own popular media.

Acceptable- Many Saints of Newark film. Sopranos was a great series, but it didn't treat black characters well. The film being a time piece and involving the full picture of the community I think is a great example of proper storytelling that doesn't just pander. Harold becomes interesting enough to be his own show if they wanted to launch that part of the universe.

Acceptable but annoying- Dial of Destiny. Helena Shaw hams it up a little bit, but Indiana Jones is old. It wasn't that disrespectful to the character, and didn't require changing or race swapping the character. I contrast this film with the new Star Wars, where they do the same concept, but make the men all useless or psychopaths.

Unacceptable, but normies like it- Vaemond Velaryon is a cool character and the actor had a good performance on House of Dragon. I'm completely taken out of it by a black guy stating to the crowd the kid can't be related to the Velaryons/Targaryens because of his hair color in spite of the pure bloodline being capable of producing more than one race. GRRM almost literally admits the Velaryons were created because he thought a black guy in the hair would look cool.

Even the normies look away- Jadzia Axelrod writing characters with a "lesbian, lesbian, lesbian" shirt to signal they're gay. Sina Grace writing Iceman as a psychopath and the plots building up to a kiss splash page.

[ManofTheAtom]

This issue isn't a new one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... ssissippi/

In April 1970, members of Mississippi’s newly formed State Commission for Educational Television met to discuss Big Bird and Cookie Monster.

“Sesame Street” had debuted on public TV the previous November, and the earliest episodes would look familiar today: cartoons about the letter O, counting exercises with ice cream cones and Ernie singing in the bathtub.

But the all-White commission decided Mississippi was “not yet ready for it,” according to one member, because it showed Black and White kids playing together. In a 3-2 vote, the commission banned “Sesame Street” from broadcasting on the state-run ETV network.

“The state has enough problems to face up to without adding to them,” an anonymous member of the commission, which was appointed by segregationist Gov. John Bell Williams (D), told the Associated Press.

Indeed.

From what I've gathered, true diversity and inclusion is something like Xena, Gabrielle, Hercules, and Iolaus standing together as equals (one is no more important than the other), while wokeness is Xena and Gabrielle constantly accusing Hercules' and Iolaus' genitals of oppressing them.

I don't know if wokeness has to be so egregious that it's complaining about genitals, but we can analyze a scale in our own popular media.

Acceptable- Many Saints of Newark film. Sopranos was a great series, but it didn't treat black characters well. The film being a time piece and involving the full picture of the community I think is a great example of proper storytelling that doesn't just pander. Harold becomes interesting enough to be his own show if they wanted to launch that part of the universe.

Acceptable but annoying- Dial of Destiny. Helena Shaw hams it up a little bit, but Indiana Jones is old. It wasn't that disrespectful to the character, and didn't require changing or race swapping the character. I contrast this film with the new Star Wars, where they do the same concept, but make the men all useless or psychopaths.

Unacceptable, but normies like it- Vaemond Velaryon is a cool character and the actor had a good performance on House of Dragon. I'm completely taken out of it by a black guy stating to the crowd the kid can't be related to the Velaryons/Targaryens because of his hair color in spite of the pure bloodline being capable of producing more than one race. GRRM almost literally admits the Velaryons were created because he thought a black guy in the hair would look cool.

Even the normies look away- Jadzia Axelrod writing characters with a "lesbian, lesbian, lesbian" shirt to signal they're gay. Sina Grace writing Iceman as a psychopath and the plots building up to a kiss splash page.

Those two last ones really try too hard.

[GammaJosh]

The role in the decline of the books for elements of virtue-signaling and SJW themes was obvious even during their publication, but I think more importantly it is very telling that there are people here who previously dug-in violently on their defense of that and denial of these themes as "problems", yet now would post here in this thread as if they saw the truth regarding this woman all along.

Nope, still here. Just still having PTSD from your political horses#!t and the way you pretend you are obviously objectively correct about subjective things, and trying not to dive back in for the umpteenth time.

[nycjadie]

[TheFerg714]

@IMJ You're really not gonna give any examples my guy? You're seriously going to claim something was "woke" and not cite your sources?

Idk what exactly Heather Antos did. I'm sure she had some sort of effect on Valiant's output, but I can't pinpoint exactly what she did, whether good or bad. All I can say is that the quality of the overall product declined sharply after dino and crew got booted.

[corey]

@IMJ You're really not gonna give any examples my guy? You're seriously going to claim something was "woke" and not cite your sources?

Idk what exactly Heather Antos did. I'm sure she had some sort of effect on Valiant's output, but I can't pinpoint exactly what she did, whether good or bad. All I can say is that the quality of the overall product declined sharply after dino and crew got booted.

Totally agree..

But I wish I could remember at least 2 stories where they pretty much made the men all toxic...and the women were downtrodden because they were women.... I'm glad I forgot which stories they were now that I type this

[leonmallett]

The role in the decline of the books for elements of virtue-signaling and SJW themes was obvious even during their publication, but I think more importantly it is very telling that there are people here who previously dug-in violently on their defense of that and denial of these themes as "problems", yet now would post here in this thread as if they saw the truth regarding this woman all along.

Nope, still here. Just still having PTSD from your political horses#!t and the way you pretend you are obviously objectively correct about subjective things, and trying not to dive back in for the umpteenth time.

Well said GammaJosh.

[Oxmyx]

A bunch of Livewire with Vita and Raul Allen, then Quantum & Woody y Christopher Hastings with art by Ryan Browne (the promo poster for it she worked on for me to send to retailers with QUANTUM AND WOODY doing Goat Yoga was super fun), X-O Manowar Dennis Hopeless w/ Emilio Laiso, Shadowman with Cullen Bunn and Jon Davis-Hunt was her till Lysa Hawkins took it over when she left, Savage with Max Bemis and Nate Stockman, and Harbinger with Jackson Lanzing, Collin Kelly, and Robbi Rodriguez Final Witness didn't get released. I'm pretty positive she also brought in a lot of cover artists for other titles too but I'm not sure which ones. That's the ones that all came out.

...and I still want to know what Final Witness was gonna be... it had me really interested.

Really appreciate your comments...and those of many others

I still think it is beautifully ironic that a title called FINAL WITNESS was right there at the very end.

I was curious about it, too, buddy.

Sorry to everybody for opening up this can of worms afresh, but seriously I'm confused about it especially since I wasn't really paying attention after I saw what DMG was putting out

[GammaJosh]

Sorry to everybody for opening up this can of worms afresh, but seriously I'm confused about it...

This explains what actually happened better than anything:

https://www.upworthy.com/marvel-writer- ... -it-sounds

Then Valiant hired that person, and the small overlap of people who were upset about the above who also happened to be Valiant fans were upset that she was at Valiant.

The events of that article are the only reason they knew her name to begin with and it's why they picked on her when she got to Valiant. She was a woman in the wrong place at the wrong time and became a target for the type of people who like to use terms like "SJW" and "woke" a lot. Those same people have absolutely no idea what decisions she's actually made about anything, but she's blamed for making comics in a different way than they like, so she became an object of hate.

That's as diplomatic as I can be about it, and I am seriously biting my tongue.

[ManofTheAtom]

Sorry to everybody for opening up this can of worms afresh, but seriously I'm confused about it...

This explains what actually happened better than anything:

https://www.upworthy.com/marvel-writer- ... -it-sounds

Then Valiant hired that person, and the small overlap of people who were upset about the above who also happened to be Valiant fans were upset that she was at Valiant.

The events of that article are the only reason they knew her name to begin with and it's why they picked on her when she got to Valiant. She was a woman in the wrong place at the wrong time and became a target for the type of people who like to use terms like "SJW" and "woke" a lot. Those same people have absolutely no idea what decisions she's actually made about anything, but she's blamed for making comics in a different way than they like, so she became an object of hate.

That's as diplomatic as I can be about it, and I am seriously biting my tongue.

Exactly.

[The Harbinger]

Nobody has ever made a career out of a milkshake group that worked together to ban writers from the industry, antagonizing fans, destroying goodwill (totally different this time with IDW, right? right?) quite like Antos.

[ManofTheAtom]

Nobody has ever made a career out of a milkshake group that worked together to ban writers from the industry, antagonizing fans, destroying goodwill (totally different this time with IDW, right? right?) quite like Antos.

But what was she like before she was bullied for getting a milkshake? Arguably, didn't "fans" antagonize her first for committing the crime of buying a milkshake with her friends/peers and posting about it online? That sort of threatment can sour a person.

[GammaJosh]

Nobody has ever made a career out of a milkshake group that worked together to ban writers from the industry, antagonizing fans, destroying goodwill (totally different this time with IDW, right? right?) quite like Antos.

But what was she like before she was bullied for getting a milkshake? Arguably, didn't "fans" antagonize her first for committing the crime of buying a milkshake with her friends/peers and posting about it online? That sort of threatment can sour a person.

Exactly. Who among us would take that kind of treatment lying down? I think most of us would respond with a heaping helping of "Fudge you, motherfudgers!"

[Oxmyx]

What do milkshakes have to do with anything? I'm pretty sure I'm missing the reference.

GammaJ, I thank you and I've added the article to my things-to-do list with a nice big *

[GammaJosh]

What do milkshakes have to do with anything? I'm pretty sure I'm missing the reference.

Literally just that she and some other Marvel staffers posted a selfie while they were out getting milkshakes, and some internet trolls took the opportunity to blame them for everything those trolls don't like about modern Marvel.

[The Harbinger]

Nobody has ever made a career out of a milkshake group that worked together to ban writers from the industry, antagonizing fans, destroying goodwill (totally different this time with IDW, right? right?) quite like Antos.

But what was she like before she was bullied for getting a milkshake? Arguably, didn't "fans" antagonize her first for committing the crime of buying a milkshake with her friends/peers and posting about it online? That sort of threatment can sour a person.

The way people talk about the milkshake story is the same way a child talks about how the vase was broken, intentionally leaving out the details, and trying to shift the blame onto others.

Best to add on the context that starts with Alanna Smith, Marvel assistant editor, (with the deleted tweet here https://twitter.com/AlannaWrites/status ... 6552807424) proclaiming they would be blacklisting all Trump supporters from the industry.

The exact quote was "Make no mistake: even if Trump loses we will remember who supported him."

This is followed by doing exactly that in practice (if I'm wrong, name the Republican hired since then at Marvel).

Adding in the editorial staff at Marvel all becoming white Karens within a year, Heather Antos comes to a sort of prominence shortly after that. Antos gets a character based off of her within her 1st year at Marvel (which involved lots of calling people on social media nazis/insulting a fan that asked how she can't know when the next issue releases for a book she edits). All of those events were the kicking of the hornet's nest to creating an inflammatory environment.

The milkshake pic is posted, highlighting the editors room, and the comic media runs with this sexism angle off the feedback. No mention of the year of calling people nazis for the slightest criticism and arguing with fans. No mention of the blacklisting of their peers. Nope, it has to be simple sexism.

Sometimes I just wonder with the Antos defenders? Like they didn't notice she tried to start up the digital lynch mobs with Jae Lee, Ken Rocafort at Valiant, Reniedraws, etc. You don't think this same stuff was happening in 2017?

[ManofTheAtom]

The way people talk about the milkshake story is the same way a child talks about how the vase was broken, intentionally leaving out the details, and trying to shift the blame onto others.

Best to add on the context that starts with Alanna Smith, Marvel assistant editor, (with the deleted tweet here https://twitter.com/AlannaWrites/status ... 6552807424) proclaiming they would be blacklisting all Trump supporters from the industry.

The exact quote was "Make no mistake: even if Trump loses we will remember who supported him."

This is followed by doing exactly that in practice (if I'm wrong, name the Republican hired since then at Marvel).

Adding in the editorial staff at Marvel all becoming white Karens, Heather Antos comes to a sort of prominence shortly after that. Antos gets a character based off of her within her 1st year at Marvel (which involved lots of calling people on social media nazis/insulting a fan that asked how she can't know when the next issue releases for a book she edits). All of those events were the kicking of the hornet's nest to creating an inflammatory environment.

The milkshake pic is posted, highlighting the editors room, and the comic media runs with this sexism angle off the feedback. No mention of the year of calling people nazis for the slightest criticism and arguing with fans. No mention of the blacklisting of their peers. Nope, it has to be simple sexism.

Sometimes I just wonder with the Antos defenders? Like they didn't notice she tried to start up the digital lynch mobs with Jae Lee, Ken Rocafort at Valiant, Reniedraws, etc.

Well, Trump is a hate monger, so his supporters should be blacklisted.

People have suffered and died because of him and his words that would otherwise be unharmed and alive right now if not for his rhetoric. How anyone can still support him after all of that is baffling.

His supports enable him, which he sees as permission to say even worse things. It started with him calling Mexicans rapists and continued with him inciting a mob to storm the Capitol. And he's not done yet.

To put some of it into context, I was recently watching Star Wars-related media and came to realization that the Emperor is not the big bad, but rather it is the people he enabled and put into positions of power that are the real villains. They're the ones spreading suffering and misery across the galaxy even long after he die.

In realistic context, the same was true of Hitler and those he empowered, and, truly ,all dictators of that sort. They may be the ones who speak the words, but it is those that empower through their positions that carry out the real atrocities. So, yes, anyone that supports Trump and people like him should be banned, blacklisted, etc, because if they placed in positions of authority, it won't matter what happens to him (arrested, dead, senile, etc), the damage will have been done. Those who think like him would be in a position to do terrible things without needing him to be around.

As for Antos getting a character based on her after a year at Marvel, Dinesh got one based on him after who knows how long in the Archer & Armstrong story published in the HC. Are we going to hold it against him? I think it was the second original story VEI published and there he is, running up toward Aram telling him that the girls are ready.

I'd need more context about the things you mention toward the end about Lee, Rocafort, and Reniedraws.

As for calling people Nazis and such, if they're ComicGaters, well, if the Swastika fits...

[The Harbinger]

Well, at least you took the mask off that you support the blacklisting (even the ones that aren't Republicans but were called such). Many in media won't even admit that was happening. The good thing there is we've now gotten to the crux of the issue that there was more to the picture than some basic sexism. Quite a lot of context, actually.

"As for Antos getting a character based on her after a year at Marvel, Dinesh got one based on him after who knows how long in the Archer & Armstrong story published in the HC. Are we going to hold it against him? I think it was the second original story VEI published and there he is, running up toward Aram telling him that the girls are ready."

This is just an lol response comparing Dino (who owned VEI and did that in a comic with less than 10K prints) to Marvel's situation with a prominent character.


Your lack of knowledge regarding Jae Lee and the witch hunts tells me you're not equipped to have this conversation in good faith. It's easy to find those in Google (they're just the ones from post-2020) so you can maybe learn a little more you admit to not knowing.