Serious question...what did Heather Antos actually *do*?

[Ryan]

The mood on the boards when they brought Antos in on Valiant ranged from excited to cautiously optimistic. As an editor and later senior editor, she brought in creators whose only criteria were philosophical to churn out poor quality books, which she approved as editor. Her public perception was that she didn’t really care much about Valiant or its characters and she might as well have been editing Widget Comics for all she cared for the characters. She was brought in after a period of stagnation and delivered scrubs and non-starters like Psi-Lords. The Livewire run totally wrecked the character and they wrote X-O like he was Booster Gold. Finally got the DC Lite, I guess.

Editors should not be seen or heard. It is counterproductive to make your name known to the public by antagonising fans on social media - even if they start it. Very unprofessional. While it does rally the support of stakeholders, that did not translate to any sort of boost in sales, but the good news might be that DMG has not acted like it really cares much about sales, or really even publishing comics, more to keep the IP. She was during the era when Valiant published fewer titles than it had editors and we still get things like the potato car.

Antos captained a sinking ship but she did leave it worse off than when she found it.

This is a good summary.

Sounds like the transitional period at the end of VH 1 when Acclaim only published Ninjak, Bloodshot, and X-O Manowar twice a month, and the period after VH 2 when Acclaim published the third Shadowman series, the Shadowman/Turok crossover, Unity 2000, and the continuation of Quantum & Woody.

There's some differences. Like Chiclo said, it seems like DMG only produces comics to keep the IP alive. And I'll add that it seems like they just make comics so they'll look good in a Hollywood pitch room, giving the illusion that they're as successful as Marvel characters.

After Acclaim bought Valiant the focus shifted toward turning the characters into video game properties. Turok and Shadowman were hit games in the late 90s, but it didn't translate into comic readers.

As much as I loathe to weigh in on political matters, MOTA has some good points about T-ump. I'm sympathetic to some culturally conservative ideas, but the Tump fans have to accept that the majority of the country (and the world) are straight up repulsed by the guy.

[Ryan]

Ahhhhhh..... now I see why you kept beating a dead horse. BTW I work with 5 illegal Mexicans.. every one of them love Trump.


But I'm glad you jumped to your deranged rant first.

Good god how I just laughed

LOL notice they can't argue on the facts, just anecdotal evidence (my black friends all love him!) and name calling.

[Chiclo]

As much as I loathe to weigh in on political matters, MOTA has some good points about T-ump. I'm sympathetic to some culturally conservative ideas, but the Tump fans have to accept that the majority of the country (and the world) are straight up repulsed by the guy.

That just makes us love him that much more.

What keeps his fanbase so rabid for him is the fact that he’s a fighter. That is also what makes him his own worst enemy; he never turned down an invitation for a fight.

Trump has become toxic to himself by being involved in so many fights on social media that he cannot properly do his job. But this thread is about Heather Antos, whose toxic baggage on social media doesn’t get in her way of doing her own job.

[Oxmyx]

Nobody has ever made a career out of a milkshake group that worked together to ban writers from the industry, antagonizing fans, destroying goodwill (totally different this time with IDW, right? right?) quite like Antos.

But what was she like before she was bullied for getting a milkshake? Arguably, didn't "fans" antagonize her first for committing the crime of buying a milkshake with her friends/peers and posting about it online? That sort of threatment can sour a person.

Exactly. Who among us would take that kind of treatment lying down? I think most of us would respond with a heaping helping of "Fudge you, motherfudgers!"

Exactly. Truth is that women in comics, video games, etc get a lot of underserved hatred from "fans".

That is undoubtedly true, but at the same time if that infamous milkshake photo is the entire editorial room (is it?) I don't see too much diversity.

[Ryan]

As much as I loathe to weigh in on political matters, MOTA has some good points about T-ump. I'm sympathetic to some culturally conservative ideas, but the Tump fans have to accept that the majority of the country (and the world) are straight up repulsed by the guy.

That just makes us love him that much more.

What keeps his fanbase so rabid for him is the fact that he’s a fighter. That is also what makes him his own worst enemy; he never turned down an invitation for a fight.

Trump has become toxic to himself by being involved in so many fights on social media that he cannot properly do his job. But this thread is about Heather Antos, whose toxic baggage on social media doesn’t get in her way of doing her own job.

I can get what you're saying, and I have respect for conservative perspectives, so I don't want to turn this thread into that fight. I'll just say that maybe the problem with him is that all he can do is fight, and most 'normal' Americans aren't the enemy that he makes them out to be.

I agree about Antos. It just made Valiant look like an unserious comic company. The only thing she was ever known for was social media battles. No one ever talks about the comics she edited at Marvel and if they were any good.

For example, if Valiant had hired Robert Kirkman as EiC, everyone would know why. It's because he has a track record for creating multiple hit series. If you hire Antos, who was out of comics and was only known for social media battles and had never shown any interest in Valiant comics in her life, it shows you're not really interested in making the best comics possible. And that sucks.

[Chiclo]

LOL notice they can't argue on the facts, just anecdotal evidence (my black friends all love him!) and name calling.

I like a challenge. The post quoted was this one:

Well, there is a difference between unwarranted anger toward an individual based on their gender and justified concern over someone's political beliefs.

It's 2023 and we're analyzing events and actions that took place over the last seven years since the moment Trump declared that Mexicans are all rapists (except for the few that aren't. I'd be in the latter category, but, somehow, I doubt ANY of his followers would care if they decided I'm in the former because they don't like how I look -- which would be Arabic, btw... -- so they might shoot me just because of that regardless of the fact that I've never raped anyone).

In the time since he made those remarks, he incited a riot in which his followers/supports/enablers KILLED people. And if he did it once, he can do it again, and might even try to do it again in the future to save his fat *SQUEE* from going to jail.

A group of women whose ideology is to bring in more representation and diversity into comics and went out to buy milkshakes is in no way comparable to the Proud Boy-types that took arms against the US government on the basis of lies spewed by a hate monger who didn't want to relinquish his political power.

The worst thing these women can do with their positions of authority within the comic book and/or video game industries is silencing the kind of rhetoric Trump spews, so the more power and more milkshakes to them.

The worst thing Trump and his supports/enablers/followers can do in positions of power is put people like me in camps -- and, hey, THEY DID THAT WITH CHILDREN!

How far do you think Trump would take his hatred of foreigners and immigrants? It started with travel bans and children in cages. What was next? Interment camps?

Is the riot you refer to where his followers killed people the January 6, 2021 riot? No protestors killed anyone that night but one protestor was shot. If I remember right, one policeman died of a heart attack that night and since that incident, a handful of policemen involved have taken their lives.

The camps they put the kids in, they were not prisons. They were facilities built to process immigrants, a system that was overwhelmed and underfunded to make political theatre. Those children were detained, not imprisoned.

What few travel bans were in place (COVID aside) were restricting travellers from active warzones and terrorist hotbeds. Most if not all of these travel bans began before the Trump administration and/or have continued since. Indeed, as a resident of Mexico, would you have had a harder time coming to the US (again, COVID aside) than at other times?

You wish these women well for trying to silence the hate speech of Trump and his followers. Is it wise to try to silence hate or other kinds of bad thinking? Any time you try to silence ideas and ban thoughts, you make the forbidden fruit all the sweeter to many out there. A lot of these kids out there, running their mouths about different kinds of hate, only embrace these ideas because they are told they are not allowed to think that way but not why such beliefs are bad. We have to beat bad ideas with good ideas and we have to do it again every generation. Sunlight is the best disinfectant; free speech and academic freedom are the best weapon against hate. Otherwise you end up with a black market of ideologies of hate like speakeasies of the internet.

[Chiclo]

As much as I loathe to weigh in on political matters, MOTA has some good points about T-ump. I'm sympathetic to some culturally conservative ideas, but the Tump fans have to accept that the majority of the country (and the world) are straight up repulsed by the guy.

That just makes us love him that much more.

What keeps his fanbase so rabid for him is the fact that he’s a fighter. That is also what makes him his own worst enemy; he never turned down an invitation for a fight.

Trump has become toxic to himself by being involved in so many fights on social media that he cannot properly do his job. But this thread is about Heather Antos, whose toxic baggage on social media doesn’t get in her way of doing her own job.

I can get what you're saying, and I have respect for conservative perspectives, so I don't want to turn this thread into that fight. I'll just say that maybe the problem with him is that all he can do is fight, and most 'normal' Americans aren't the enemy that he makes them out to be.

I agree about Antos. It just made Valiant look like an unserious comic company. The only thing she was ever known for was social media battles. No one ever talks about the comics she edited at Marvel and if they were any good.

For example, if Valiant had hired Robert Kirkman as EiC, everyone would know why. It's because he has a track record for creating multiple hit series. If you hire Antos, who was out of comics and was only known for social media battles and had never shown any interest in Valiant comics in her life, it shows you're not really interested in making the best comics possible. And that sucks.

Similarly, I seek better understanding of the philosophies that differ from mine. I even troll a pro-gun blog, making arguments from the perspective of a firearm enthusiast who believes in “common sense gun violence prevention.” I like to think I have some pretty decent insights into Progressive philosophy and intersectional critical theory.

[corey]

Ahhhhhh..... now I see why you kept beating a dead horse. BTW I work with 5 illegal Mexicans.. every one of them love Trump.


But I'm glad you jumped to your deranged rant first.

Good god how I just laughed

LOL notice they can't argue on the facts, just anecdotal evidence (my black friends all love him!) and name calling.

Why would I repeat what was did in an earlier post?

The cages were from obama.... the pictures they used against Trump about the cages were from the Obama 8 years.....I thought this was common knowledge? Just go on ignoring every post above mine if you want

[Oxmyx]

Best to add on the context that starts with Alanna Smith, Marvel assistant editor... proclaiming they would be blacklisting all Trump supporters from the industry.

All of those events were the kicking of the hornet's nest to creating an inflammatory environment.

Well, Trump is a hate monger, so his supporters should be blacklisted.

People have suffered and died ... How anyone can still support him after all of that is baffling.

His supports enable him...It started with him calling Mexicans rapists and continued with him inciting a mob to storm the Capitol.

To put some of it into context....Hitler...

As for calling people Nazis and such, if they're ComicGaters, well, if the Swastika fits...

Dude, ManofTheAtom, I wasn't interested in turning this into Democrats/Republicans type political debate, but I really think you ought to hear a few comments I have.

I can't believe you're about to make me defend Trump. I am going to hold that against you for a long time.

I am disgusted by Trump, and angered by him, and certainly never supported him, BUT the two things you name most prominently as his greatest sins (Mexicans as rapists, Riot at the Capitol) I think you misunderstand.

And it isn't your fault. Very powerful forces WANT you to misunderstand. Principally, the Democrat-aligned Media and the (pardon on oversimplified term) Deep State.

People in this thread have spoken a lot about context. The context of what Trump was saying in his Mexican rapist speech was essentially "Mexican illegal immigrants can be criminals, thrives, murderers, and rapists and those criminals are taking refuge in our country to hide from their own country's government."

Is that what he said? No. Did many (a vocal minority? an obscene majority?) Trump supporters take it like you did? Yes. Are the implications of the rapist comment (taken that way) vile? Yes. Are the concerns expressed about undocumented immigrants including criminals realistic? Absolutely! After listening to Trump's speech in question I am personally convinced that the media coverage of anti-Trump media was purposefully framed in a way to push the narrative in the worst possible light.

Next, the Capitol Riot. I'm convinced you've been misled. When I say "I'm convinced" I'm willing to keep an open mind. It's crazy that a gaggle of yahoos could "storm the Capitol ". There is ample evidence the FBI or CIA (I don't recall which) had planted instigators, I think they've been forced to admit it, and those plants are the ones who broke windows and opened doors (for the most part) and most of the so-called rioters just peaceably walked in. The footage you've seen over and over was selected specifically to make it look violent. And yes it certainly was violent at times, peaceable at others, laughable at all times. The people who were killed? Exactly who and how many? I think it was one guard, but I am a little skeptical of even that.

And the cages? That was a crime against humanity. Well, not the cages so much as the separation of babies from mother's arms, then "lost" by records keepers almost certainly ending up in child-labor situations or human trafficking. That was the unforgivable thing Trump did. The cages are unforgivable too, but are hardly a Trump thing. Obama set them up, Trump continued, Biden continued.

So, look into what I said and especially remember DON'T UNCRITICALLY BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU ARE TOLD, AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE

[Oxmyx]

As much as I loathe to weigh in on political matters, MOTA has some good points about T-ump. I'm sympathetic to some culturally conservative ideas, but the Tump fans have to accept that the majority of the country (and the world) are straight up repulsed by the guy.

That just makes us love him that much more.

What keeps his fanbase so rabid for him is the fact that he’s a fighter. That is also what makes him his own worst enemy; he never turned down an invitation for a fight.

Trump has become toxic to himself by being involved in so many fights on social media that he cannot properly do his job. But this thread is about Heather Antos, whose toxic baggage on social media doesn’t get in her way of doing her own job.

When did Antos ever do her job? Haha. Joking. Kinda.

And...Trump never turned down an invitation to a fight...he also never turned down the profits from a fight, either.

[GammaJosh]

Nobody has ever made a career out of a milkshake group that worked together to ban writers from the industry, antagonizing fans, destroying goodwill (totally different this time with IDW, right? right?) quite like Antos.

But what was she like before she was bullied for getting a milkshake? Arguably, didn't "fans" antagonize her first for committing the crime of buying a milkshake with her friends/peers and posting about it online? That sort of threatment can sour a person.

Exactly. Who among us would take that kind of treatment lying down? I think most of us would respond with a heaping helping of "Fudge you, motherfudgers!"

Exactly. Truth is that women in comics, video games, etc get a lot of underserved hatred from "fans".

You literally just admitted that a blacklisting perception, that caused the feedback, was justified in the previous post.

No we literally did not but if she was trying to blacklist anyone associated with ComicsGate I say good for her.

[GammaJosh]

GREAT NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE "DEEP STATE" AGAIN. I'LL REVISIT IN SEVERAL MONTHS.

[Ryan]

Similarly, I seek better understanding of the philosophies that differ from mine. I even troll a pro-gun blog, making arguments from the perspective of a firearm enthusiast who believes in “common sense gun violence prevention.” I like to think I have some pretty decent insights into Progressive philosophy and intersectional critical theory.

You're a good egg though.

The part I dislike is the constant online discourse where both sides argue against the most extreme caricature of the other side, and then we all hate each other. The hate gets stoked (for clicks/profit) so much every day that people start thinking a D or an R is a bigger enemy than actual enemy countries who want to destroy the West and what it stands for. That's not a healthy situation. I liked it better when red vs. blue politics wasn't baked into everything and I dislike people who exploit the division for their own gain.

Why would I repeat what was did in an earlier post?

The cages were from obama.... the pictures they used against Trump about the cages were from the Obama 8 years.....I thought this was common knowledge? Just go on ignoring every post above mine if you want

Fair enough. There's plenty of reasons to dislike Trump though even without that one. Has the dude ever read a book? A lot of people are just repulsed by the guy and what he stands for. Why all the love for Russia and dictatorships? Having lived for 5 years in the PRC, there are a ton of freedoms that I no longer take for granted when I'm in the US.

[Ryan]

GREAT NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE "DEEP STATE" AGAIN. I'LL REVISIT IN SEVERAL MONTHS.

No, don't leave! I knew this political talk would lead to no good. Didn't there used to be a Topic Oblivion where all the ranty and political discussions were sent? Where is Daniel Jackson? This board needs some moderation. No seriously, should someone do a wellness check?

[Oxmyx]

GREAT NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE "DEEP STATE" AGAIN. I'LL REVISIT IN SEVERAL MONTHS.

If this is in reference to my post, I apologized for using the lazy loaded pop-culture term DEEP STATE (lacking all nuance) but you Gamma used the term ComicsGate which I consider equally lacking in nuance.

If your post is not a reference to mine, or if your distaste has some other provenance, sorry to bother you.

However, in all seriousness, does your comment mean you dismiss the Deep State as a thing?

[Ryan]

GREAT NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE "DEEP STATE" AGAIN. I'LL REVISIT IN SEVERAL MONTHS.

No, don't leave! I knew this political talk would lead to no good. Didn't there used to be a Topic Oblivion where all the ranty and political discussions were sent? Where is Daniel Jackson? This board needs some moderation. No seriously, should someone do a wellness check?

The main moderator of the board hasn't posted since 2020 and hasn't even logged on in a year and a half. Aye Yai Yai

Screenshot 2023-10-31 221434.png

[Chiclo]

And the cages? That was a crime against humanity. Well, not the cages so much as the separation of babies from mother's arms, then "lost" by records keepers almost certainly ending up in child-labor situations or human trafficking. That was the unforgivable thing Trump did. The cages are unforgivable too, but are hardly a Trump thing. Obama set them up, Trump continued, Biden continued.

So, look into what I said and especially remember DON'T UNCRITICALLY BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU ARE TOLD, AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE

If any of those kids were truly separated from their parents at the border and those details lost, that would be tragic indeed.

For some - most, I'd wager - of these kids, that might be a blessing. I think these kids were trafficked to come into this country, not so much as numbers for slave work, but as props for other people wanting to misuse and abuse our immigration system. I met a kid once, call him Ricky. Ricky was from somewhere in Central America (Nicaragua? Honduras? Don't remember now). His mother sold him to a man who wanted to come to the United States. This man knew that if a potential migrant showed up at the border with a kid, he went to an express lane. This express lane was set up with the most noble of intentions, to keep families together as much as possible, but this mercy was being misused by many including the man that bought Ricky. So this guy comes to the border, he and Ricky were let into the country and ended up settled in Louisiana. Ricky spoke no English in a school district where that was uncommon and ultimately a Spanish teacher recognised that something was wrong. Ricky was being abused, physically and sexually, by the man who had bought him from his mother and brought him into the country. She contacted the local child protective services, who did not have a Spanish speaking foster family to take in Ricky, and she volunteered herself and her husband.

I wonder how many of these kids were like Ricky, bought from their families and brought to our country by people trying to abuse what mercies we built into the system? In being abandoned, were these kids avoiding some terrible abuse by these people who didn't really want them after their purpose was over? I once heard some well-meaning people on tv talking about using genetic testing to find these kids' families - how many would that actually find the people they showed up with? Maybe in some cases, that would reunite kids like Ricky with family already here, which would be a wonderful blessing. If there were families looking for missing kids, that would be one thing, but most if not all of these were kids leftover, unclaimed by families.

[daniellew61]

omg can this thread die? Heather was not the cause of all your problems with the company and titles. Jesus

[The Harbinger]

Ahhhhhh..... now I see why you kept beating a dead horse. BTW I work with 5 illegal Mexicans.. every one of them love Trump.


But I'm glad you jumped to your deranged rant first.

Good god how I just laughed

LOL notice they can't argue on the facts, just anecdotal evidence (my black friends all love him!) and name calling.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. He literally screeched about how Trump kills Mexicans (somehow facts to you) while ignoring that Trump didn't even set up the "camps". I pointed this out earlier, but for some reason you didn't quote those parts.

[The Harbinger]

I've made no such accusations. I quoted Antos' tweet you linked to and asked you, many times, to expand on who it was Renie "aligned" herself with and what are those person's "extremely toxic" views, which you refuse to do.

You're playing games and wasting time.

Yeah, and that 'Trump killing the Mexicans' speech was valuable time spent. You are certainly taking the stance that it is justified to call out "alignment", and that the minority started it by "aligning". That is objectively Heather starting a public situation. I'm not worried about convincing you. It's a basic statement we can verify chronologically, and we can attribute historical behavior patterns to it from the other times this happened.

[The Harbinger]

omg can this thread die? Heather was not the cause of all your problems with the company and titles. Jesus

I'd certainly consider the public perception of an inflammatory social media profile as something that helped to cause the downfall of VEI. There were other factors (like the hiring), but I'm not going to ignore that Antos had a negative impact.

If anything, we should continue discussing so the actions aren't repeated by up and comers while troublemakers not interested in the content are banished to places like IDW. "Never alienate a potential customer" should be day 1 of a business that relies on sales to survive.

[Chiclo]

omg can this thread die? Heather was not the cause of all your problems with the company and titles. Jesus

No, that would be Dan Mintz.

[Ryan]

I think it's a relevant discussion, because it gets to the big question that anyone has who is still a Valiant fan. Why does DMG own these characters and what are they doing with them?

No one is blaming everything on her, she's just the most visible and well-known figure that DMG hired to run Valiant. Same things could be being said about Illidge or others, but they just aren't as prominently known.

[daniellew61]

She didn't "run" anything, that was all Fred Pierce.

[Ryan]

She didn't "run" anything, that was all Fred Pierce.

Ok, as fans we don't know the inner workings of the company. When someone is hired as the lead editor, we assume they're making the decisions about how the comics are made.