VH 1 Can Never Come Back

[Ryan]

Well, killing Darque and ridding the world of the Darque power could be separate events.

/Magnus

Exactly. Really the only line in Rai 0 that's under any scrutiny is this one:

Screenshot 2024-02-28 120932.png

No mention of Jack dying or Master Darque at all. Just 'ridding humanity of the Darque Power'. Shadowman had already been established as a lineage hero so 'the dark vested hero called Shadowman' could be Maxim or someone else. Darque could be alive and well with no contradictions.

So this is the reason VH1 Can Never Come Back?

It could, sure.

To me, concerns about the minutiae of specific continuity or whether something is called Vh1, Vh4 or whatever isn't that important. What I'd like to see most is more respect for the original universe from the VEI people and a true passionate care for the characters/world from the people making the comics. That would go a long way for me.

I don't think we've seen anything less since VEI started.

I guess that's easier to say if you haven't read anything in 7 years. I would still disagree though.

[Ryan]

Instead of making every thread about Vh1, why not some discussions looking forward in a constructive manner toward the continuation of VEI? Going from your own thesis in the original post:

Dinesh provided VALIANT with a strong foundation (considerably stronger than VH 2 did), and that's what Alien should build on.

With that being the case, and 14 years of publication to draw from and build on, there should be more than enough fodder for discussion.


What are the major storylines from the last 14 years that people want to see continued, resolved, or expanded on?

What are people's favorite characters that they want to see more of? Any characters that you're tired of or feel like get too much spotlight?

What about side characters and villains, who are they ones you want to see more of or can't get enough of?

Any character origins that need more expansion or depth?

In the case of a VEI soft reboot:

If VEI was to prune some of its history, what are the series/storylines that people think are essential and must be kept, and what are the ones that don't fit and should be dismissed?

What are the strongest core concepts/characters and storylines from the VEI era that people think should be built off of, and what are the ones that should be forgotten or less emphasized?


And on and on. This is the kind of stuff we used to talk about all the time on this board and it helps to build the fanbase and build interest in the current comics that are coming out.

[ManofTheAtom]

Instead of making every thread about Vh1, why not some discussions looking forward in a constructive manner toward the continuation of VEI? Going from your own thesis in the original post:

Dinesh provided VALIANT with a strong foundation (considerably stronger than VH 2 did), and that's what Alien should build on.

With that being the case, and 14 years of publication to draw from and build on, there should be more than enough fodder for discussion.


What are the major storylines from the last 14 years that people want to see continued, resolved, or expanded on?

What are people's favorite characters that they want to see more of? Any characters that you're tired of or feel like get too much spotlight?

What about side characters and villains, who are they ones you want to see more of or can't get enough of?

Any character origins that need more expansion or depth?

In the case of a VEI soft reboot:

If VEI was to prune some of its history, what are the series/storylines that people think are essential and must be kept, and what are the ones that don't fit and should be dismissed?

What are the strongest core concepts/characters and storylines from the VEI era that people think should be built off of, and what are the ones that should be forgotten or less emphasized?


And on and on. This is the kind of stuff we used to talk about all the time on this board and it helps to build the fanbase and build interest in the current comics that are coming out.

Good questions.

I think that in many cases most stories have reached their natural conclusions, no? Particularly because most were written-driven, like with Venditti, Van Lente, and Dysart.

Did they leave any pending plots unresolved?

[Ryan]

Good questions.

I think that in many cases most stories have reached their natural conclusions, no? Particularly because most were written-driven, like with Venditti, Van Lente, and Dysart.

Did they leave any pending plots unresolved?

I wouldn't know, this is a question for the people who love VEI and claim it's the better universe to go forward with. You're the one who made this topic saying VEI is the strong foundation that Alien should build on.

Wouldn't a strong foundation include a fanbase that has a strong desire to read more adventures of the characters and have a bunch of unanswered questions about the characters and world?

If these same questions were asked regarding Vh1, I could easily answer all of them in great detail off the top of my head even though I haven't read many of those comics in 30 years. There would be a ton of things I'd be interested in seeing in further adventures or more in depth back stories of those characters and that world.

To me, that's the definition of a strong foundation to build a fictional universe from. Your claiming that VEI is the better foundation, I'm just not seeing the evidence to back that up.

[ManofTheAtom]

Good questions.

I think that in many cases most stories have reached their natural conclusions, no? Particularly because most were written-driven, like with Venditti, Van Lente, and Dysart.

Did they leave any pending plots unresolved?

I wouldn't know, this is a question for the people who love VEI and claim it's the better universe to go forward with. You're the one who made this topic saying VEI is the strong foundation that Alien should build on.

Wouldn't a strong foundation include a fanbase that has a strong desire to read more adventures of the characters and have a bunch of unanswered questions about the characters and world?

If these same questions were asked regarding Vh1, I could easily answer all of them in great detail off the top of my head even though I haven't read many of those comics in 30 years. There would be a ton of things I'd be interested in seeing in further adventures or more in depth back stories of those characters and that world.

To me, that's the definition of a strong foundation to build a fictional universe from. Your claiming that VEI is the better foundation, I'm just not seeing the evidence to back that up.

If the VEI iteration didn't have a fanbase, they'd likely reboot. That was essentially Nicieza's logic for doing VH 2, that VH 1 didn't have a strong enough fanbase.

[Ryan]

If the VEI iteration didn't have a fanbase, they'd likely reboot. That was essentially Nicieza's logic for doing VH 2, that VH 1 didn't have a strong enough fanbase.

Yeah everyone stopped reading because the books after Birthquake were utter trash. Biggest bag fumble in the history of comics

[ManofTheAtom]

If the VEI iteration didn't have a fanbase, they'd likely reboot. That was essentially Nicieza's logic for doing VH 2, that VH 1 didn't have a strong enough fanbase.

Yeah everyone stopped reading because the books after Birthquake were utter trash. Biggest bag fumble in the history of comics

Yeah.

[Ryan]

If the VEI iteration didn't have a fanbase, they'd likely reboot. That was essentially Nicieza's logic for doing VH 2, that VH 1 didn't have a strong enough fanbase.

Yeah everyone stopped reading because the books after Birthquake were utter trash. Biggest bag fumble in the history of comics

Yeah.

I think the fanbase was still pretty big though. If Valiant had got back to making good comics with the characters people liked the sales would have gone up. Rebooting was a mistake of hubris.

Rebooting is also the easier choice. Instead of making the new writers read all the old books and fit them in, just hire 'hot' names and let them do whatever they want with the basic concepts and brand names.

I can guarantee, if in 1996 they would have just gone back to the core characters, pre-Unity principles (real-time passage, etc.) focus on writing and cohesion, etc. Then the readers would have come back.

[ManofTheAtom]

If the VEI iteration didn't have a fanbase, they'd likely reboot. That was essentially Nicieza's logic for doing VH 2, that VH 1 didn't have a strong enough fanbase.

Yeah everyone stopped reading because the books after Birthquake were utter trash. Biggest bag fumble in the history of comics

Yeah.

I think the fanbase was still pretty big though. If Valiant had got back to making good comics with the characters people liked the sales would have gone up. Rebooting was a mistake of hubris.

Rebooting is also the easier choice. Instead of making the new writers read all the old books and fit them in, just hire 'hot' names and let them do whatever they want with the basic concepts and brand names.

I can guarantee, if in 1996 they would have just gone back to the core characters, pre-Unity principles (real-time passage, etc.) focus on writing and cohesion, etc. Then the readers would have come back.

Possibly.

[magnusr]

With that being the case, and 14 years of publication to draw from and build on, there should be more than enough fodder for discussion.

Not 14 years. Maybe 2012 to 2017.

/Magnus

[magnusr]

'if in 1996 they would have just gone back to the core characters, pre-Unity principles (real-time passage, etc.) focus on writing and cohesion, etc. Then the readers would have come back.

Readers like us would have come back, not sure if it could have brought the mass market that Acclaim wanted. It's been said that they wanted to copy Image, so I guess there was not much hope for any focus on writing and cohesion.

/Magnus

[Ryan]

'if in 1996 they would have just gone back to the core characters, pre-Unity principles (real-time passage, etc.) focus on writing and cohesion, etc. Then the readers would have come back.

Readers like us would have come back, not sure if it could have brought the mass market that Acclaim wanted. It's been said that they wanted to copy Image, so I guess there was not much hope for any focus on writing and cohesion.

Yeah the speculators had already left comics by then. The readers would have come back but would it have been enough? Who knows. With all the money Acclaim invested into Vh2 (it had to considerable with all the big names and launching that many titles), I just think if that money had been invested into restoring the original pre-Birthquake Valiant universe it could have been something special.