Key Issues of Valiant

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 7:42:54 pm

What are the key issues? I know there are RARE issues but I'm thinking along the lines of 1st apperance and important turning points. Here's my pre-unity list for what it's worth:

Archer & Armstrong #1
Eternal Warrior #1
Magnus #0,1,5,6,12
Solar #1,3,10,14
Harbinger #1,3
Rai #0,1-5
Shadowman #1
X-O #1,4
Unity #0,1

Of course this discussion isn't limited to pre-unity issues. I know I would also consider Solar #14 a key. Just not as knowledgable past the 1993 era.

dave · Post by **dave** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 7:58:50 pm

shadowman 16 first appearance of dr mirage
shadowman 8 first appearance master darque
x-o 25?/armorines 0 first appearance armorines?
does that count?
which issue had the first psi-lords?
would rai 21 be the first appearance of the "other rai"
(born in issue 21-takes over title in issue 24!)
these are some that i can think of

myron · Post by **myron** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 9:11:41 pm

What about Rai 7...iirc doesn't the protagonist get wasted in the last page or two

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 9:38:25 pm

Knightt_333 wrote:What was key about Solar #10 ? I believe I have read it but dont know why it commanded a high price (and still does - I cant get one under $10 to $13 bucks shipped)

Solar #10 is the first appearance of the Eternal Warrior (Gilad Abrams).
It's also the "last chapter" in the origin of Solar, known as "Alpha & Omega".
(The black whole that destroys the universe, and causes an all-black cover.)

It's the first Valiant book to be reprinted due to demand.

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:06:16 pm

whetteon wrote:What are the key issues? I know there are RARE issues but I'm thinking along the lines of 1st apperance and important turning points. Here's my pre-unity list for what it's worth:

Archer & Armstrong #1
Eternal Warrior #1
Magnus #0,1,5,6,12
Solar #1,3,10,14
Harbinger #1,3
Rai #0,1-5
Shadowman #1
X-O #1,4
Unity #0,1

Well... here's my initial reaction to your list:

Archer & Armstrong #1 - [greg] I'd say #0 and #2 are more key than #1.
Eternal Warrior #1 - [greg] It's a first issue, but no first appearances.
Magnus #0,1,5,6,12 - [greg] This is a really good list for Magnus.
Solar #1,3,10,14 - [greg] #11 might be more key than #14...
Harbinger #1,3 - [greg] #3 doesn't immediately come to mind. #0 does.
Rai #0,1-5 - [greg]#0 is key, but common. The others aren't really key stories. #7 is a "story key" with Rai's death.
Shadowman #1 - [greg] The mention of death in 1999 is in #5.
X-O #1,4 - [greg] #4's cameo is nice, but not really a big deal.
Unity #0,1 - [greg] These are "bookends" to a fanastic story as a whole.

I would tend to put the most importance "storywise" on the Magnus and Solar issues,
with Harbinger #1 and X-O Manowar #1 close behind for "originality".
Harbinger #0 Pink is also a significant book... hard to skip.
If Solar (Alpha & Omega) could be described as "Solar #0",
then it would be very, very high on the "story key" list.

Unity is a major "story key" but with 18 chapters, it's more of a "group key".

While the post-Unity issues can be considered important, especially Rai #0,
it's interesting that a lot of Valiant fans would like to see another attempt
at picking up the Valiant stories just after Unity ended...
(This tends to lessen the potential importance of the stories post-1992.)

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:19:16 pm

A key for me would be X-O 65.

I will wait for the laughing to stop..........

Ok, in X-O 65 Aric & the armor fully bond. Then the armor seperates itself from Aric, takes the ring from him, and says "ggggree-tingssss, a-rrric da-sssci-aaaa..."

The last page says "to be continued" but it never did. I remember reading that issue and going nutes waiting for issue 66.

Then 66 comes out and it is another story arc as if nothing happened in 65. That really *SQUEE* me off. I ownder if previews had what was planned for 66 in it.

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:06:47 am

Okay, updated version of the list:

Archer & Armstrong #0,2
Magnus #0,1,5,6,12
Solar #0,1,3,10,11,14 - [whet]#14 has the first doctor eclipse.
Harbinger #0(Pink),1
Rai #0,7,21
Shadowman #1,5,8,16
X-O #1,4 - [whet]#4 has first shadowman. Not a big deal?
Unity #0,1

Armorines 1st is X-O Manowar #19. I never considered them inportant to the whole universe. They were like fleas. Scratchy, but overall insignficant to the host that was Valiant's storyline and continuity. What do you the rest of you think?

As for Solar #11, it's the starting point for unity but its more of a "between" book. It moves the plot but doesn't really accomplish anything on its own. However, the part where Erica kills... well Erica is pretty powerful. hmmm... Much more thought is needed on this one.

R Daneel · Post by **R Daneel** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:01:37 am

I nominate Solar #0 to the list. I've been watching eBay for the trade paperback for a while, and last night while going through my many boxes of crap comics, I found a copy! Wow, I don't really remember ordering it, but it made sense that I did. A lot of times with things like that, I would somehow mis out on them, I dunno if my comic shop was holding back on me or if they didn't always order right, but anyway I have my Solar #0 ... had to reread it last night.

Is there a more appropriate penciler for Solar than BWS????? If there is, I cannot think of them.

Ax · Post by Ax » Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:59:29 am

greg wrote:While the post-Unity issues can be considered important, especially Rai #0,it's interesting that a lot of Valiant fans would like to see another attempt at picking up the Valiant stories just after Unity ended...
(This tends to lessen the potential importance of the stories post-1992.)

I would only go for restarting where Shooter left off if they still made something with the manowar ring being thrown away at the end of Predator vs. Magnus. And Jim Starlin better stay away because his artwork sucks compared to what it was in the seventies.

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:46:59 pm

I think you have to throw Harbinger #10 out there even though it is after Unity. First HARD Corps, as anyone who read Rai #0 knows, the HARD Corps play a big part in the future of the Valiant Universe.

What about Solar #7. Isn't that supposed to be the first appearance of any of the X-O armors?

myron · Post by **myron** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:55:12 pm

What about Solar #7. Isn't that supposed to be the first appearance of any of the X-O armors?

that's what this thread brings up

http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/fo ... c.php?t=37

first visual of x-o class armor...

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:43:27 pm

Brother J wrote:What about Solar #7. Isn't that supposed to be the first appearance of any of the X-O armors?

I don't think so... Solar #7 is March 1992.
X-O Manowar #1 is February 1992. (Yes, he did have armor in #1).

The first X-O Armor of any kind (Commando Class) is in Magnus #7.
That's probably where the "#7" is coming from.

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:06:56 pm

What about Solar #7. Isn't that supposed to be the first appearance of any of the X-O armors?

Your request for X-O #7 to join the ranks of Valiant key issues has been denied! I believe Greg points out the reasons. Still waiting on his response for Solar #11,14 and X-O #4.

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:43:34 pm

whetteon wrote:Still waiting on his response for Solar #11,14 and X-O #4.

Oh, was I not done here?

Solar #11 - You know what? I used to think that Solar #10 had very
little of Eternal Warrior, so it was more "cameo" than "full"...
but I just read both books and Solar #10 had lots of Eternal Warrior.
So my argument for Solar #11 is a little weaker now.

I don't consider Solar #11 as "key" as I did earlier,
but I believe it deserves more consideration than it usually gets ($2 to $4).
The Erica Pierce story leading into Unity is definitely important.

Solar #14 - I really like this book... especially as a post-Unity "key"...
but Dr. Eclipse just didn't live up to what I think he could have been
when we were all so excited about him in 1993.

X-O #4 - this is one of those "dubious keys" I remember from the early days.
Jack Boniface (Shadowman) appears in this issue... in one panel.
What's the date of X-O #4 with its one-panel Shadowman? May 1992.
So how long before we saw lots of Shadowman in Shadowman #1? May 1992.
It's hard to make X-O #4 a key issue when I really think about it.

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:08:06 am

updated version of the list:

Archer & Armstrong #0,2
Magnus #0,1,5,6,12
Solar #0,1,3,10,11(?)
Harbinger #0(Pink),1
Rai #0,7,21
Shadowman #1,5,8,16
X-O #1
Unity #0,1

I good solid core start for the list. I removed #4 cause I didn't realize the cameo was one panel

Solar #14 was removed cause Doctor Eclipse was indeed rather anti-climatic. Advertised as the exact opposite of Solar, he turn out to be more like the exact opposite of a well thought out character. It's like they abanded the character before he was even developed. ::sigh::

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:40:20 am

Knightt_333 wrote:Cameos do not count as a first appearance do they ? I mean really... if 'the guys' foot shows up in the last panel is THAT a first appearance ? Yes, Jack shows up but exactly what relevance did he have to the story ? First full appearance... much better idea. Still it was a good idea on Valiant's part, they knew the significance to a first appeance (of sorts) so this would boost the price of the book. (my opinion only)

If cameos don't count as first appearances, I want to buy a NM copy of Hulk #180 for $5.

But you wanna know the single most important book in the *history* of Valiant? Solar #10. More important than any other issue. Why? Because when it came out, people said 'Holy MARY, mother of GOD, what is this Valiant thing??'....and the rest is history.

Before Solar #10, ALL Valiant was 25 cent fodder (yes, I bought a Harb #1 for 25 cents BEFORE Unity came out.) Solar #10 was the fuse that lit the explosion, no doubt.

You had to be there, really, to appreciate what Solar #10 did. And if you don't think that's impressive, consider this: the cover price was $3.95, at a time when the new issue of X-Men or Batman was $1.25. And it SOLD OUT.

Pretty incredible.

lobo · Post by **lobo** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:13:59 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote: You had to be there, really, to appreciate what Solar #10 did. And if you don't think that's impressive, consider this: the cover price was $3.95, at a time when the new issue of X-Men or Batman was $1.25. And it SOLD OUT.
Pretty incredible.

People forgave the $3.95 price because it was an independant and they expected a higher price anyways. Solar #10 was also one the more memorable and coolest of gimic covers in a market that was flooded by them (damn Marvel). Thinking back I'm glad Valiant put extra thought and soul into their gimics and promotions.
This gives me an idea! I'm going to start a new thread under 'Other'!

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:41:27 pm

lobo wrote:
People forgave the $3.95 price because it was an independant and they expected a higher price anyways. Solar #10 was also one the more memorable and coolest of gimic covers in a market that was flooded by them (damn Marvel).

Actually....the cover price for Independents of 1992 was roughly $2-$3. $4 and up was still a price reserved for prestige format books and the like. (Ok, yes, it WAS a 'double' sized issue, too!)

And as far as gimmick books go....the only gimmicks up to that time were the variants, gold 2nd prints, and bagged issues (Spiderman #1, X-Men #1, X-Force #1.) It wasn't until the summer of 1992, AFTER Solar #10 had been out for several months, that gimmick covers became extremely popular.

The king year of Gimmick covers, without a doubt, is 1993. From bagged, to sparkly, to prism, to neon, to holograms, to chromium, to you name it, 1993 was the year for it.

Solar #10 wasn't even a 'gimmick', really. It was integral to the story inside. It was simply what Shooter and BWS thought was the logical cover for the story they were telling...and a damn fine choice it was, too.

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:09:25 pm

Anybody say EW #4, first appearence of Bloodshot? what about the issue where stanchek is revealed as the Harbinger?

R Daneel · Post by **R Daneel** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:32:41 pm

Does anyone ever get the feeling some folks just exagerate a little, like this much? (holding up hands, indicating the size of the Grand Canyon)

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:31:25 pm

You get charged 50 cents for a bag and board, Knight? Yeesh. I thought paying 9 cents for the both was bad.

Well...it is when you have to bag and board 100,000 comics. Sigh.

So if anyone knows a source where I can get acid free Silver Age boards and Fun Yet polybags, same size, for a net cost of less than 9 cents, to my door, I'd appreciate the info. Thanks!

Zero_UK · Post by **Zero_UK** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:03:52 am

Solar #1,3,10,14 - #11 might be more key than #14...

I would include #14 for the sumptuous Ditko art Greg. That probably means #15 too, but I haven't read that one.

Zero

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:51:50 pm

I get "fun yet" polys from "ComicZone" on ebay. I think they are less than $30/1000 shipped.

I buy boards to fit them direct from egerber.com (they fit perfect). If you buy in 2000 quantity, I think they run just under $0.08 each. I personally feel these boards are well worth the extra cost, even for stuff I'm selling.

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:You get charged 50 cents for a bag and board, Knight? Yeesh. I thought paying 9 cents for the both was bad.

Well...it is when you have to bag and board 100,000 comics. Sigh.

So if anyone knows a source where I can get acid free Silver Age boards and Fun Yet polybags, same size, for a net cost of less than 9 cents, to my door, I'd appreciate the info. Thanks!

Sector3600 · Post by **Sector3600** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:48:22 pm

whetteon wrote:updated version of the list:

Archer & Armstrong #0,2
Magnus #0,1,5,6,12
Solar #0,1,3,10,11(?)
Harbinger #0(Pink),1
Rai #0,7,21
Shadowman #1,5,8,16
X-O #1
Unity #0,1

I good solid core start for the list. I removed #4 cause I didn't realize the cameo was one panel Solar #14 was removed cause Doctor Eclipse was indeed rather anti-climatic. Advertised as the exact opposite of Solar, he turn out to be more like the exact opposite of a well thought out character. It's like they abanded the character before he was even developed. ::sigh::

What about

[most likely I'm stretching with core Valiant readers

]

Solar #2 (1st appearance of the Valiant "red" costume and Dr. Solar in the Valiant Universe)

Archer & Armstrong #8 (1st Ivar the Timewalker)

Bloodshot #6, 7 (1st Colin King, 1st Ninjak)

Eternal Warrior #4 (1st Immortal Enemy a reoccuring nemesis of EW)

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:52:14 pm

Sector3600 wrote:
whetteon wrote:updated version of the list:

Archer & Armstrong #0,2
Magnus #0,1,5,6,12
Solar #0,1,3,10,11(?)
Harbinger #0(Pink),1
Rai #0,7,21
Shadowman #1,5,8,16
X-O #1
Unity #0,1

I good solid core start for the list. I removed #4 cause I didn't realize the cameo was one panel Solar #14 was removed cause Doctor Eclipse was indeed rather anti-climatic. Advertised as the exact opposite of Solar, he turn out to be more like the exact opposite of a well thought out character. It's like they abanded the character before he was even developed. ::sigh::
What about [most likely I'm stretching with core Valiant readers ]

Solar #2 (1st appearance of the Valiant "red" costume and Dr. Solar in the Valiant Universe)

Archer & Armstrong #8 (1st Ivar the Timewalker)

Ninjak #6, 7 (1st Colin King, 1st Ninjak)

Eternal Warrior #4 (1st Immortal Enemy a reoccuring nemesis of EW)

I think that you meant to say bloodshot...which would be correct...it would seem funny to have the first time a character shows be 6 issues into his own title....

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