The Valiant Rebirth

RyanWizard · Post by **RyanWizard** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:18:26 am

Hey guys. My name's Ryan and I'm the Price Guide Editor at Wizard magazine. I've been noticing how popular Valiant comics have become again. My questions to you are:
Why do you think there's a resurgence in Valiant books, not just from the die-hards, but for all collectors?
Which books are the hottest, both price-wise and movement wise?
I know what the price guide says, but what do you all think?
If you could see a few titles jump back into the Wizard guide, which would you most like to see? Thanks!

R Daneel · Post by **R Daneel** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:54:03 am

RyanWizard wrote:Why do you think there's a resurgence in Valiant books, not just from the die-hards, but for all collectors?

I was leafing through some of my old Wizards that I have socked away, I think it was issue #11 or #12. Harbinger was #1 on the hot list, I think Magnus #0 was 4th and there might have been one more in the top 10. They all carried the same theme in the comments: high quality comic books!

A lot of events shaped the way the general comic book community looked at Valiant comics, both then and now. Without going into all of the details (others here could give you a much better and educated look back) I think it is the quality of the original Valiant universe that is key here. Its what gained them their attention early on, and what will bring the attention back. Just my 2 cents, from someone just getting back into the hobby after a 6-7 year layoff.

No Valiant titles back in Wizard please ... I'm still trying to complete my entire collection without the buzz.

Ax · Post by Ax » Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:55:41 am

RyanWizard wrote:Hey guys. My name's Ryan and I'm the Price Guide Editor at Wizard magazine. I've been noticing how popular Valiant comics have become again. My questions to you are:
Why do you think there's a resurgence in Valiant books, not just from the die-hards, but for all collectors?
Which books are the hottest, both price-wise and movement wise?
I know what the price guide says, but what do you all think?
If you could see a few titles jump back into the Wizard guide, which would you most like to see? Thanks!

If you are indeed the "real" Ryan Penagos, then tell us your favorite color. Only the true Ryan would know the correct answer.

Anyways... I remember the only reason I started reading Valiant was because Wizard kept showing the wonderful cover to XO#6. I would imagine that Valiant has increased in popularity because it was the only thing of real substance from that time period(for a little while at least) and all the dorks snatched up the good issues while the prices were way lower than what they should have been. And I don't think that putting the main Valiant titles back into Wizard's price guide would take up too much space since all the post-Unity issues are all the same price and can be listed in one line.

jusdb · Post by **jusdb** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:55:48 am

R Daneel wrote:No Valiant titles back in Wizard please ... I'm still trying to complete my entire collection without the buzz.

i'd be forced to agree......at least for a few more months 'til i can find a rai #4 cheap enough for me to buy.

R Daneel · Post by **R Daneel** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:58:03 am

Ax wrote:If you are indeed the "real" Ryan Penagos, then tell us your favorite color. Only the true Ryan would know the correct answer.

If that is true, how will we know if he gives the correct answer??

qrnd · Post by **qrnd** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:08:33 am

At the height of Valiant's popularity, other companies were really getting into gimmicks and flooding the market with all sorts of things. Valiant books usually guaranteed a good story, which seems to be what readers like. Even now, readers can find issues in the quarter bins at local stores, and they really hook you. Its only a quick eBay check later, and you see that building a complete set doesnt take too long.

RyanMcLelland · Post by **RyanMcLelland** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:25:12 am

Valiant's are popular again!?!?!? DAMNIT! I'll agree with those who say not to post anything until they get their collection completed...I'm still missing some key issues of Solar and Harbinger!

As someone who writes about quarter bin comics each week, I'm also going to agree that placing Valiants back in the price guide might not be worthwhile. Sure early pre-Unitys are starting to be a hot commoditiy, but I still bought 6 issues of Solar #4 in a quarter bin at the last con in Philly. Meaning? Since Wizard always seems to be on the cusp of OH MY GOD THIS IS FLAMING RED HOT! it's probably not worth bringing Valiant's back in the price guide when Wizard doesn't include even some brand new comics within the price guide confines.

Though if you are who you say you are and do want some suggestions no matter what anyone says...safer bets probably lie in the early titles: Harbinger, Solar, Magnus, Rai, Shadowman, and X-O. I'm sure Wizard readers don't need to know that their runs of Psi-Lords are still worth a quarter a piece.

Ax · Post by Ax » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:42:59 am

R Daneel wrote:
Ax wrote:If you are indeed the "real" Ryan Penagos, then tell us your favorite color. Only the true Ryan would know the correct answer.
If that is true, how will we know if he gives the correct answer??

How perceptive of you Mr. Olivaw. 8)

myron · Post by **myron** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:50:44 am

considering the overstreet post that sonicdan did before the crash, this guy might be legit...checking up on what overstreet said...

Wizard has never (afaik) listed all books and prices so if there aren't any valiants in there it's no loss. I agree it would be nice to keep them out until I get some holes filled though

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:02:35 pm

I must agree please do not put valiant in wizard until I complete my collection. All jokes aside I really do not think that it would be worth while to publish that sort of information.. All the collectors of valiants are probably on this board at some point...There really are not that many people who are truly interested in valiants....maybe in year or two we might start to see some real widespread interest, but right now I think that it is jsut a few people coming back to something that they really liked....a huge majority of the valiants after unity can be had for a .25 or less if you buy in lots from most dealers and that I do not see as news worthy...but to answer your questions I think that harbingers are really seeing some good movement right now. It is a book that I never got into but people seem more than happy to drop some coin on those early harbingers right now...also the crazy variants like chaos effect alpha red and xo1/2 gold....also maybe you guys could do a story on the bloodshot 0 platinum. I know that I would like to have some mre information on that book....

RyanWizard · Post by **RyanWizard** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:35:43 pm

My favorite color is green. And a dark shade at that.

Anyhow...
The info may or may not run, but whether you guys realize it or not, you're causing a stir that's been noticed by a few people here in completely different circumstances. I personally find it both fascinating and cool that books people have written off are back on the radar. I still have a Rai tpb and I remember it being a great read. I want to go back and read all those issues now and I've only begun to dive back into the universe. I'm not trying to make things hard for anyone to collect, but think about how many kids just getting into comics now have no idea what Valiant was? Spark a little interest and maybe more people will start buzzing.
I'm not so much concerned with the values (strange for a PG editor, I'm sure), as I am with piquing people's interest. I do my job, but I'm a comic reader first. Everyone should know about good stories, right?

R Daneel · Post by **R Daneel** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:58:58 pm

RyanWizard wrote:Everyone should know about good stories, right?

For sure, and that is a great answer to your first question.

I can only speak for myself, but I am totally kidding when making any comments in regards to prices and me worrying about them going up or down. The days are long past where I bought with the primary hopes of having a collectable on my hands with a secondary concern of reading good stories. I was a kid back then and I'm not afraid to admit it, I didn't know any better. Today I still might buy that rare variant or expensive issue to fill a small and obscure spot in my collection, but I don't do it to resell for a profit.

Thanks for visiting Ryan, and please exercise some patience with us ... the board was recently down for a while and we've all been in withdrawal a little bit, so we're all acting a little giddy. Haha.

myron · Post by **myron** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:19:32 pm

agreed

(well with everything but being a kid when they first appeared !)

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:24:17 pm

RyanWizard wrote:My favorite color is green. And a dark shade at that.

Anyhow...
The info may or may not run, but whether you guys realize it or not, you're causing a stir that's been noticed by a few people here in completely different circumstances. I personally find it both fascinating and cool that books people have written off are back on the radar. I still have a Rai tpb and I remember it being a great read. I want to go back and read all those issues now and I've only begun to dive back into the universe. I'm not trying to make things hard for anyone to collect, but think about how many kids just getting into comics now have no idea what Valiant was? Spark a little interest and maybe more people will start buzzing.
I'm not so much concerned with the values (strange for a PG editor, I'm sure), as I am with piquing people's interest. I do my job, but I'm a comic reader first. Everyone should know about good stories, right?

It is much more than just good stories. I don't think any company had the inpact that Valiant had. It was great art, great stories, amazing continunity, orginal promotions & marketing, Jim Shooter, BWS, and the feeling that we might have been seeing the birth of another DC or Marvel. Many would agree that it was a big dissapointment when Shooter was "use your own words here" from Valiant. Slowly things changed and the "spark" was gone. I think that politics in the industry played a big role in the downfall.

Why are we collecting them again? Some of us never stopped. Some remember just how good the books were. For me, I wasn't really finding anything "new" or "original" in the current market place and began to re-read my Solar Alpha & Omega TPB. I was missing that kind of "completness and vision". I did a search on ebay and found someone selling a Valiant book last year that listed this website. I discovered I wasn't alone in my love of Valiant. I have been here since.

It is too bad you didn't find this site 2 weeks ago before the "hosting" company screwed up Gregs site. You would have found thousands of posts from fans around the world who would welcome the return of the Valiant heros with open arms.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:28:48 pm

RyanWizard wrote:My favorite color is green. And a dark shade at that.

Anyhow...
The info may or may not run, but whether you guys realize it or not, you're causing a stir that's been noticed by a few people here in completely different circumstances. I personally find it both fascinating and cool that books people have written off are back on the radar. <snip> Spark a little interest and maybe more people will start buzzing.
I'm not so much concerned with the values (strange for a PG editor, I'm sure), as I am with piquing people's interest. I do my job, but I'm a comic reader first. Everyone should know about good stories, right?

well I guess I have noticed that when I am at a show or a store and I ask about Valiants everyone is normally a little taken back, but they are hearing that name again and they would be remissed if they did not take notice of it. I know that I also go out of my way to not just go throwing that name around when I am in those types of places because I am still looking for deals. People are surely interested in these books as can be noticed by the ebay sales and the activity on this board. I also think that for the majority of the comic community valiant is off the radar and forgotten even if they are still some really great books.

dino · Post by **dino** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:40:38 pm

Listing valiant in the price guides is a BAD BAD idea. Today people remember valiant as a commodity that isnt worth anything. if you tell them prices are rising thats the attitude they will have again. I know quite a few people who still have thier valiant books sealed away from 1994 waiting for them to be worth money again.

Instead how about a story on great valiant storylines that people are missing. Like a top ten with Steel Nation, Alpha and Omega, Unity etc. Put the focus onto what makes valiant worth a damn to start with. I know the only reason I'm here is because wizard did a list of the best trades paperbacks and Steel Nation was number 4 (i think). It hooked me back onto valiant.

RyanWizard · Post by **RyanWizard** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:40:59 pm

I believe that I spoke with a retailer recently about books they bring to cons and he mentioned that he's happy to bring Valiant books to shows because he's pretty sure they'll move. I hope that stays true (When I start hitting up this years shows, I know I'll be keeping an eye out for some deals).

I'll try and keep you guys updated on the status of Valiant books as long as any info stays on this board (at least until the first issue with Valiant books in the guide) hits the stands.

dino · Post by **dino** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:44:23 pm

hmm sounds like we just made a friend in high places...

myron · Post by **myron** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:40:02 pm

well we are such a lovable bunch

don't you agree

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:58:03 pm

Welcome Ryan! We've been making some noise, huh?

Let me take a shot at answering your questions...

Why do you think there's a resurgence in Valiant books,
not just from the die-hards, but for all collectors?

[greg] I would venture to say that most Valiant collectors at this point
truly enjoy the books. They either have fond memories of Valiant,
or they somehow discovered the books more recently and enjoy them.
It's definitely a "small resurgence" at this point, I don't believe the
number of active Valiant collectors is much more than a thousand or two,
but the number of people who remember Valiant is much, much larger.
Some people remember Valiant as it related to the "comic book crash",
and therefore, the memories may not be as sweet as others.
It's quite possible that Valiant is still a "hotly debated issue" across
the comic book community in general.

Which books are the hottest, both price-wise and movement wise?

[greg]There are really only about three types of Valiant books...
1. The important early (pre-Unity) regular issue books.
2. The limited dealer incentive "manufactured collectibles".
3. Everything else (basically anything 1993 to 1996).

In Group 1., the "hottest books" are definitely the 1991 to early 1992 books
which laid the foundation for the Valiant universe.
Valiant struggled in those days, so print runs are relatively lower...
but the vision for the Valiant universe was very clear,
art and stories were very entertaining and intriguing,
and collectors appreciate the "whole package" of those books.

In Group 2., the rarest books are the limited edition books, naturally.
They are hardest to find, they demand the most on the back issue market,
but they do little to "advance the message" of the Valiant universe.
Completionists love to find them, especially for low prices,
but they are valued mostly for "what they are" not for "what they contain".

In Group 3., you find the "most well-known Valiant books".
Bloodshot #1, Turok #1, X-O Manowar #0, Rai & The Future Force #9...
these are the books that still fill bargain boxes around the country...
they still stir up strong feelings of resentment among "1990s speculators",
they are not worth cover price today... they should never have been
hyped as "worth more than cover price" when they were brand new.
This group "killed" Valiant as a collectible in the 1990s...
they are definitely worth adding to your collection for $0.10, $0.25, etc.,
but outside of the final issues of 1996, it's hard to find a book that
could consistently bring more than even 1/2 cover price today.

I know what the price guide says, but what do you all think?

[greg]I think Wizard readers would quickly misunderstand Valiant collectors
as being "caught up" in the prices of Group 2...
when the only reason Group 2 has any value is because of the
importance Valiant collectors place on the foundation books in Group 1.
Image Comics has books in the "manufactured collectibles" category
from the same time period, that still aren't worth more than $1 or $2 today.
Why not? There's no "foundation" Group 1 for early Image books.

If you could see a few titles jump back into the Wizard guide,
which would you most like to see?

[greg]If Wizard started with the "foundation titles", it could help tell
the story of the importance of the Valiant foundation to today's collectors.
The foundation titles are:
Magnus, Solar, Harbinger, X-O Manowar, Rai (before the Future Force), and Shadowman

The next major "phase" in the Valiant universe is Unity.
The Unity storyline crossed the titles above and also introduced
two new Valiant foundation titles: Archer & Armstrong, Eternal Warrior.

After Unity... you quickly find the books that caused the controversies.
Bloodshot, Turok, Rai & The Future Force, HARDCorps, Ninjak, Secret Weapons

All of the "foundation titles" existed after Unity, too...
but from a collector standpoint, those issues just don't hold the weight
that the pre-Unity books did (and still do).

Harbinger listings must clarify that #0 Pink is the rare sendaway book,
and that #0 Blue is the reprint available with the trade paperback.
Also, it must be clearly stated that Harbinger #1 through #6 have coupons,
and when those coupons are missing...
the value is only around 10% (or cover price).

Magnus #1 through #8 also contained coupons...
Without the coupons, the value is about cover price.

Solar #10 (the all black cover from 1992) had a later second printing.
The second printing has an embossed Roman numeral II on the cover.

Besides the "incentive books" (one or two in most of the titles)...
which have value because they were created to have value...
the most desirable Valiant books today are mostly profiled on this
"Rescue Valiant" page: http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/rescue.asp

This post in no way reflects the attitude of EVERY Valiant collector,
since there is no single attitude... but it is a story that I've heard
time and time again in the past 10 years.

Whew, and now I'm tired.

myron · Post by **myron** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:04:49 pm

Very well said...no wonder you run the show...

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:33:53 pm

Greg, that link kicks *SQUEE*! Is it possible to place it somewhere on the website that is easily obtainable? I hate making dublicate "favorites" for the same website. And of course, count me in to rescue those issues! :mrgreen:

Previously, I rescued 1 copy of each rai issue from 1-5 for $1. Magnus 2-14 for $1 and Solar 2-10 for $1. So plus 1 to these issues

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:51:51 pm

Can you tell me where there are shows where the dealers bring Valiant? It's been our collective experience that they are hard to find at shows.

RyanWizard wrote:I believe that I spoke with a retailer recently about books they bring to cons and he mentioned that he's happy to bring Valiant books to shows because he's pretty sure they'll move. I hope that stays true (When I start hitting up this years shows, I know I'll be keeping an eye out for some deals).

I'll try and keep you guys updated on the status of Valiant books as long as any info stays on this board (at least until the first issue with Valiant books in the guide) hits the stands.

COMICKINGS · Post by **COMICKINGS** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:47:37 pm

Also, it must be clearly stated that Harbinger #1 through #6 have coupons,
and when those coupons are missing...
the value is only around 10% (or cover price).

This is where some people may end up being wrong.Especially issue #1.In the long run the gap will close for issues with and without the coupons.It doesn't really affect the story and it doesn't cut into the actual book if it's gone.For years Overstreet listed The Amazing Spider-man #238 with and without the tattoos insert and the back of the book.There was a big difference in price and now they are worth the same with or without.If anybody has any they want to unload,I'm a buyer for all the coupon-less Harbingers.

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:51:08 pm

COMICKINGS wrote:If anybody has any they want to unload,I'm a buyer for all the coupon-less Harbingers.

You know, with a total of only 48,000 copies of Harbinger #1 with or without coupons,
you may be right in the years to come.

But the problem with Spider-man's "tattooz" is that you could pull them
out of the cheaper Marvel books and stick them in Spider-man 238...
it was nearly impossible to tell if someone was "faking" the original...
so the prices are the same to discourage the fakes.

You won't find the Harbinger #1 coupon in any other books,
and you can't just print one and stick it in there unless you
want to take the staples out of the book.
I think the value "with coupon" is a little safer than the "tattooz" value.

But I would still agree that Harbinger #1 without coupon is a good buy for about $5.
48,000 copies is pretty low for a "Valiant key" like that one, so $5 is cheap.

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