The "Darker Side" of Valiant

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:29 am

comicmark wrote:Those are pretty cool covers.
I'm sure we could think of Marvel and DC heroes that turned temporarily bad as well.
By the way, what happened in this story? I didn't read any Valiants after around the time Shooter left.
I'm curious if it parallels at all what happened in the New Universe's Star Brand.
I've heard a few people were killed in this story arch as well.

I can't remember what happened in those stories either, even though I read them a couple months ago. What DID happen?

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:29 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:Btw, shouldn't the name of this thread be the Darquer Side of VALIANT?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:31 am

Dr. Solar wrote:
comicmark wrote:Those are pretty cool covers.
I'm sure we could think of Marvel and DC heroes that turned temporarily bad as well.
By the way, what happened in this story? I didn't read any Valiants after around the time Shooter left.
I'm curious if it parallels at all what happened in the New Universe's Star Brand.
I've heard a few people were killed in this story arch as well.
I can't remember what happened in those stories either, even though I read them a couple months ago. What DID happen?

When Phil destroyed the Alpha & Omega reality/timeline, the energy traveled to the VALIANT reality/timeline and Master Darque absorbed it.

The premise of the story was that Darque wanted Solar to do the same to the VALIANT Universe, so he corrupted his soul.

The Destroyer is the part of Phil's soul that was taken over by Darque, which he expelled out of him.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:48 pm

I actually like the idea of The Immortal Enemy being transferred to a good guy/hero, but doesn't the IE have to be born into it?

How about the IE being transferred into a Harbinger? It would be long enough since Gilad killed him the last time (let's all face it, being frozen isn't "suspended animation" - the last host died) that we could have a teenage Harbinger suddenly start to hate... an Omega-level Harbinger with two different coloured eyes.....

-slym

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:50 pm

slym2none wrote:I actually like the idea of The Immortal Enemy being transferred to a good guy/hero, but doesn't the IE have to be born into it?

How about the IE being transferred into a Harbinger? It would be long enough since Gilad killed him the last time (let's all face it, being frozen isn't "suspended animation" - the last host died) that we could have a teenage Harbinger suddenly start to hate... an Omega-level Harbinger with two different coloured eyes.....

-slym

I am sure that the Immortal Enemy could switch bodies, at least around the time of Chaos Effect.

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:17 pm

leonmallett wrote:I am sure that the Immortal Enemy could switch bodies, at least around the time of Chaos Effect.

Yep. Pretty much always been able to if he touches/looks into the eyes of someone when he dies.

/Magnus

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:43 pm

leonmallett wrote:
slym2none wrote:I actually like the idea of The Immortal Enemy being transferred to a good guy/hero, but doesn't the IE have to be born into it?

How about the IE being transferred into a Harbinger? It would be long enough since Gilad killed him the last time (let's all face it, being frozen isn't "suspended animation" - the last host died) that we could have a teenage Harbinger suddenly start to hate... an Omega-level Harbinger with two different coloured eyes.....

-slym
I am sure that the Immortal Enemy could switch bodies, at least around the time of Chaos Effect.

Heh - never even read the CE issues I bought.

-slym

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:21 pm

magnusr wrote:
leonmallett wrote:I am sure that the Immortal Enemy could switch bodies, at least around the time of Chaos Effect.
Yep. Pretty much always been able to if he touches/looks into the eyes of someone when he dies.

/Magnus

I thought this change was unfortunate. As Slym indicated, early on he had to be "born again" in order to return. That was an incredibly cool aspect of the IE character.

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:38 am

Second_Death wrote:I thought this change was unfortunate. As Slym indicated, early on he had to be "born again" in order to return. That was an incredibly cool aspect of the IE character.

It was cool. And lasted about one issue. Once he even transfered through internet.

/Magnus

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:14 am

magnusr wrote: Once he even transfered through internet.

/Magnus

Weak. Hella lame...

-slym

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:20 am

Second_Death wrote:
magnusr wrote:
leonmallett wrote:I am sure that the Immortal Enemy could switch bodies, at least around the time of Chaos Effect.
Yep. Pretty much always been able to if he touches/looks into the eyes of someone when he dies.

/Magnus
I thought this change was unfortunate. As Slym indicated, early on he had to be "born again" in order to return. That was an incredibly cool aspect of the IE character.

Agreed, but the 'rebirth' idea is very limiting in any series that is primarily contemporaneous. I loved the flashbacks in Eternal Warrior and the present-day parallels, but Immortal Enemy popping up once a generation or so would be very restrictive to a very cool foe.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:13 pm

slym2none wrote:How about the IE being transferred into a Harbinger? It would be long enough since Gilad killed him the last time (let's all face it, being frozen isn't "suspended animation" - the last host died) that we could have a teenage Harbinger suddenly start to hate... an Omega-level Harbinger with two different coloured eyes.....

I still think this is a good AND plausible idea. So, the IE can transfer a number of way, so he transfers (not neccesarily now through birth) into a Harbinger.

-slym

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:32 pm

The Eternal Warrior Yearbook 2 had a neat Immortal Enemy story.

Gilad has to kill his kids at birth because they've got all his strength and none of his discipline. He rides off to kill the Immortal Enemy in the 16th Century or thereabouts and kills him right as his wife is giving birth. She sends the baby away before Gilad comes back and Gilad goes chasing after the baby. Turns out he was possessed by the Immortal Enemy and works on a pirate vessel. He's a pirate captain by 17 or so and Gilad has to take him down.

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:56 am

I like the concept of the EW "spawing" other potential "EW"s. Then having to clean up his um... 'handiwork"...

The Harbinger · Post by **The Harbinger** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:29 pm

Chiclo wrote:The Eternal Warrior Yearbook 2 had a neat Immortal Enemy story.

Gilad has to kill his kids at birth because they've got all his strength and none of his discipline. He rides off to kill the Immortal Enemy in the 16th Century or thereabouts and kills him right as his wife is giving birth. She sends the baby away before Gilad comes back and Gilad goes chasing after the baby. Turns out he was possessed by the Immortal Enemy and works on a pirate vessel. He's a pirate captain by 17 or so and Gilad has to take him down.

sounds like the zeus/chronos myth

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:31 pm

The Harbinger wrote:
Chiclo wrote:The Eternal Warrior Yearbook 2 had a neat Immortal Enemy story.

Gilad has to kill his kids at birth because they've got all his strength and none of his discipline. He rides off to kill the Immortal Enemy in the 16th Century or thereabouts and kills him right as his wife is giving birth. She sends the baby away before Gilad comes back and Gilad goes chasing after the baby. Turns out he was possessed by the Immortal Enemy and works on a pirate vessel. He's a pirate captain by 17 or so and Gilad has to take him down.
sounds like the zeus/chronos myth

While I liked the premise of the yearbook I dislike the idea of Gilad's children being born crazy. Doesn't it contradict the personality of the son from EW #1?

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:43 pm

leonmallett wrote:
Second_Death wrote:
magnusr wrote:
leonmallett wrote:I am sure that the Immortal Enemy could switch bodies, at least around the time of Chaos Effect.
Yep. Pretty much always been able to if he touches/looks into the eyes of someone when he dies.

/Magnus
I thought this change was unfortunate. As Slym indicated, early on he had to be "born again" in order to return. That was an incredibly cool aspect of the IE character.
Agreed, but the 'rebirth' idea is very limiting in any series that is primarily contemporaneous. I loved the flashbacks in Eternal Warrior and the present-day parallels, but Immortal Enemy popping up once a generation or so would be very restrictive to a very cool foe.

I disagree, but only in the sense that there can be more than one Eternal Enemy alive at a time.

If there is a "highlander" limitation, then yes, it would certainly be that Gilad would only encounter the Eternal Enemy about once every 20-50 years (at best). But since Gilad is about 4000 years old (in 2000 AD), that would be fodder for not less than 80 stories.

I think it would be neat to see an Eternal Enemy vignette at the beginning of each of the EW issues.

I wonder how would that fit in with "I had a dream that I was falling through time. I am falling still..."

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:09 pm

While run-ins with the Immortal Enemy make for pretty good stories, I don't think EVERY issue should start out that way.

There's one, around issue 19, where Gilad is wandering down a road and is accompanied for a short while by a man who is presumably Judas, the betrayer of Jesus. That was probably one of my favourite flashbacks of his. There's another one where he's in Texas during our fight for Independance (so presumably 1836). He runs into Sam Houston and takes the name Abrams after a fallen comrade. Great stuff all around.

mramsterdam · Post by **mramsterdam** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:22 pm

A third more evil solar sounds better.