Never seen this much VALIANT posted in WIZARD before....

[wrunow]

You guys need to relax, the nice thing about collecting VALIANTS it is a popular universe and you can complete a whole collection for a lot less than a run of Fantastic Four or something like that. I think you'll find the prices will hold up, especially if someone buys the rights from acclaim.
We need to remember they ain't makin VALIANTS anymore and they were a lot more popular in the 90's than the Malibu's and Image stuff was, even if the titles deteriorated over time, at least the pre Unity stuff anyway.

[YourPlace2]

Well, I am glad to hear all this. I just loaded up on Valiant's from Langes stock. I still have not put any up on my Ebay yet.

BTW, all who bought from me over the weekend. Thanks. They are in the mail today.

[Valiant_1]

It's vindication, y'all.

What's the worst thing that could happen now that WIZARD is listing values? The prices on the books go down again?

Just me personally, if Gareb Shamus and the WIZARD gang want to print VALIANT prices again, let 'em. Everyone here knows that WE fans, THIS site, and the ORIGINAL KNOB ROW are responsible for Valiant's longevity. Period.

[Valiant_1]

WIZARD skipped the values on the higher print run books, and chose to focus on what appeared to be Keys and Variants. I noticed they did the same thing with Marvel's title "CABLE", choosing only to list some issues in the #70-#80 range for some reason.

I saw no VVSSs listed in the guide either.

[greg]

Ryan Penagos (Price Guide Editor, Wizard Magazine) is a board member ("RyanWizard")
and was posting about Valiant here almost exactly one year ago.
http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44

Here's an excerpt of one of his posts from Feb '04...

"whether you guys realize it or not, you're causing a stir that's been noticed by a few people here in completely different circumstances. I personally find it both fascinating and cool that books people have written off are back on the radar. I still have a Rai tpb and I remember it being a great read. I want to go back and read all those issues now and I've only begun to dive back into the universe. I'm not trying to make things hard for anyone to collect, but think about how many kids just getting into comics now have no idea what Valiant was? Spark a little interest and maybe more people will start buzzing.
I'm not so much concerned with the values (strange for a PG editor, I'm sure), as I am with piquing people's interest. I do my job, but I'm a comic reader first. Everyone should know about good stories, right?"

It sounds to me as if Wizard has started reflecting the actual market prices
for these books... so, isn't that a good thing?

Unlike 1993...
Wizard isn't going to be saying Bloodshot #1 is the greatest thing since sliced-bread
because the market (which is in full sight of everyone in 2005)
can't sell a Bloodshot #1 for 10% of cover price.

Unlike 1993...
Valiant isn't "hot off the presses" and selling for $50 or $100 a book.
Few... if ANY... of the Valiant books should list for anything close to $100.
Even the books that might sell for $100 are 10+ years old now... and out of print.
That's incredibly different than listing a brand-new-ink-isn't-dry-yet book for $100.
...especially when everyone can look at actual sales in the secondary market to prove it.

[myron]

Ryan Penagos (Price Guide Editor, Wizard Magazine) is a board member ("RyanWizard")
and was posting about Valiant here almost exactly one year ago.
http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44

Here's an excerpt of one of his posts from Feb '04...

"whether you guys realize it or not, you're causing a stir that's been noticed by a few people here in completely different circumstances. I personally find it both fascinating and cool that books people have written off are back on the radar. I still have a Rai tpb and I remember it being a great read. I want to go back and read all those issues now and I've only begun to dive back into the universe. I'm not trying to make things hard for anyone to collect, but think about how many kids just getting into comics now have no idea what Valiant was? Spark a little interest and maybe more people will start buzzing.
I'm not so much concerned with the values (strange for a PG editor, I'm sure), as I am with piquing people's interest. I do my job, but I'm a comic reader first. Everyone should know about good stories, right?"

It sounds to me as if Wizard has started reflecting the actual market prices
for these books... so, isn't that a good thing?

Unlike 1993...
Wizard isn't going to be saying Bloodshot #1 is the greatest thing since sliced-bread
because the market (which is in full sight of everyone in 2005)
can't sell a Bloodshot #1 for 10% of cover price.

Unlike 1993...
Valiant isn't "hot off the presses" and selling for $100 a book.
Even the books that might sell for $100 are already 10+ years old.
That's incredibly different than listing a brand-new ink-isn't-dry book for $100.
...especially if you can look at actual sales in the secondary market to prove it.

the numbers man speaketh...aaayup...what he said

[screamingdc]

Wizard needs to stop cause they're making clueless shop owners aware that tey can make a whole lot more off that quarter bin of Valiants. wait until i finish my collection ya *SQUEE*.

[riff13]

Could it be the Cheap days are running out?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

The Cheap day's can't be running out! I still have Back Issues to buy!

[greg]

the numbers man speaketh...aaayup...what he said

Here's one of my favorite "number games"...
(You'll need some old price guides... I'll be using Overstreet #17 from 1987)

It's the "Value vs. Cover Price Game"

1. Find "important books" that were 10 to 15 years old in the old price guide.
(Since I'm using a 1987 guide... we need to find books printed from 1972 to 1977.)

2. Compare the "guide price" to the "original cover price" of the comic book.
(Calculate the Guide-to-Cover ratio... Guide of $20 vs. Cover of $0.50 = 40x.)

Amazing Spider-man #121 (1973) fourteen years old in 1987
1987 Overstreet = $15, 1974 cover price = $0.20, Guide-to-Cover ratio = 75x

Amazing Spider-man #129 (1974) thirteen years old in 1987
1987 Overstreet = $14, 1974 cover price = $0.20, Guide-to-Cover ratio = 70x

Astonishing Tales #25 (1974) thirteen years old in 1987
1987 Overstreet = $2.40, 1974 cover price = $0.25, Guide-to-Cover ratio = 9.6x

Cerebus the Aardvark #1 (1977) ten years old in 1987
1987 Overstreet = $350, 1977 cover price = $1, Guide-to-Cover ratio = 350x

Daredevil #131 (1976)
1987 OS = $6, cover = $0.25, ratio = 24x
(Note: Daredevil #158 (1979) was only 8 years old, with a ratio of 82.5x)

Doctor Strange #1 (1974)
1987 OS = $6, cover = $0.25, ratio = 24x

Giant Size X-Men #1 (1975)
1987 OS = $85, cover = $0.50, ratio = 170x

Incredible Hulk #181 (1974)
1987 OS = $32, cover = $0.25, ratio = 128x

Werewolf By Night #32 (1975)
1987 OS = $15, cover = $0.25, ratio = 60x

X-Men #94 (1974)
1987 OS = $100, cover = $0.25, ratio = 400x

Ok... so those were some of the biggest 10-15 year old books in 1987...
ranging from very important to minor-keys, but still the "best of the age"...
and those were the Guide-to-Cover price ratios at that time.
(10x, 40x, 100x, 400x)

Now, let's jump forward to 2005... some of the biggest 10-15 year old books
are definitely Valiant books... so let's check the Guide-to-Cover price ratios.

Harbinger #1 (with coupon) - Guide: $30, Cover: $1.95, ratio = 15.4x
Magnus #1 (with coupon) - Guide: $12, Cover: $1.75, ratio = 6.9x
Magnus #12 - Guide: $22, Cover: $3.25, ratio = 6.8x
Rai #3 - Guide: $20, Cover: $1.95, ratio = 10.3x
Solar #10 (first print) - Guide: $14, Cover: $3.95, ratio = 3.5x

Ratios of 3.5x to 15.4x. No big numbers there.
I don't think we should consider the key issue Valiant market as
"currently overpriced" if history is any indication.

[Unblessed]

I don't think we should consider the key issue Valiant market as
"currently overpriced" if history is any indication.

I consider them overpriced.

~The Unblessed Soul

[greg]

I don't think we should consider the key issue Valiant market as
"currently overpriced" if history is any indication.

I consider them overpriced.

~The Unblessed Soul

Ok, then, somewhere, there's a dealer with a NM Harbinger #1 in his $0.25 box... just for you.
I really hope you find him.

[Unblessed]

pulled a Harby #5 for $2 this weekend.

--edit-- forgot to add, with coupon

~The Unblessed Soul

[YourPlace2]

You make a good point.

Look what Mile High Comics lists a graded 7.5 X-Men #94 (1974 @.25 cents cover) at.

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/b ... 0CGC%207.5

[Escaflown4]

the numbers man speaketh...aaayup...what he said

Here's one of my favorite "number games"...
(You'll need some old price guides... I'll be using Overstreet #17 from 1987)

It's the "Value vs. Cover Price Game"

1. Find "important books" that were 10 to 15 years old in the old price guide.
(Since I'm using a 1987 guide... we need to find books printed from 1972 to 1977.)

2. Compare the "guide price" to the "original cover price" of the comic book.
(Calculate the Guide-to-Cover ratio... Guide of $20 vs. Cover of $0.50 = 40x.)

Amazing Spider-man #121 (1973) fourteen years old in 1987
1987 Overstreet = $15, 1974 cover price = $0.20, Guide-to-Cover ratio = 75x

Amazing Spider-man #129 (1974) thirteen years old in 1987
1987 Overstreet = $14, 1974 cover price = $0.20, Guide-to-Cover ratio = 70x

Astonishing Tales #25 (1974) thirteen years old in 1987
1987 Overstreet = $2.40, 1974 cover price = $0.25, Guide-to-Cover ratio = 9.6x

Cerebus the Aardvark #1 (1977) ten years old in 1987
1987 Overstreet = $350, 1977 cover price = $1, Guide-to-Cover ratio = 350x

Daredevil #131 (1976)
1987 OS = $6, cover = $0.25, ratio = 24x
(Note: Daredevil #158 (1979) was only 8 years old, with a ratio of 82.5x)

Doctor Strange #1 (1974)
1987 OS = $6, cover = $0.25, ratio = 24x

Giant Size X-Men #1 (1975)
1987 OS = $85, cover = $0.50, ratio = 170x

Incredible Hulk #181 (1974)
1987 OS = $32, cover = $0.25, ratio = 128x

Werewolf By Night #32 (1975)
1987 OS = $15, cover = $0.25, ratio = 60x

X-Men #94 (1974)
1987 OS = $100, cover = $0.25, ratio = 400x

Ok... so those were some of the biggest 10-15 year old books in 1987...
ranging from very important to minor-keys, but still the "best of the age"...
and those were the Guide-to-Cover price ratios at that time.
(10x, 40x, 100x, 400x)

Now, let's jump forward to 2005... some of the biggest 10-15 year old books
are definitely Valiant books... so let's check the Guide-to-Cover price ratios.

Harbinger #1 (with coupon) - Guide: $30, Cover: $1.95, ratio = 15.4x
Magnus #1 (with coupon) - Guide: $12, Cover: $1.75, ratio = 6.9x
Magnus #12 - Guide: $22, Cover: $3.25, ratio = 6.8x
Rai #3 - Guide: $20, Cover: $1.95, ratio = 10.3x
Solar #10 (first print) - Guide: $14, Cover: $3.95, ratio = 3.5x

Ratios of 3.5x to 15.4x. No big numbers there.
I don't think we should consider the key issue Valiant market as
"currently overpriced" if history is any indication.

Interesting theory, but it doesn't account for the inflation of comic prices between then and now. Comic cover prices inflated the heaviest during the 90's speculation period. It came to the point where kids nowadys can't even afford to keep it as a hobby, which is the main reason why most comic collectors in our generation are us 20-30 yr old geeks.

[depluto]

It also doesn't account for the overall inflation of the 1970s, but those books were cornerstones for a growing market. Valiant is dead. For now.

And what the hell are we gonna do if Gareb buys the characters and starts putting out cgc 9.5 Harbingrrrrs?

[Valiant_1]

Hey, I'm all over dat!

Makes me look forward to the Unity 2000 # 1/2 as well. *tee-hee*. It'll make my set look a LITTLE more complete.

[400yrs]

I think the most of the issues you listed were/are coveted on a large scale, whereas Valiants don't have quite the appeal. However, I don't feel they are overpriced as the guide reflects the ebay market. Of course, without this website they wouldn't be selling for nearly as much.

[greg]

I think the most of the issues you listed were/are coveted on a large scale, whereas Valiants don't have quite the appeal.

I agree... but in 1987, the books were only 10-15 years old...
and they represented the "best" of the industry from 1972-77.
(... and there were hundreds of thousands of anything Marvel...
including Hulk 181, X-Men 94, etc.)

Right now, looking at books that are 10-15 years old,
you have to pick either Marvel or DC books from 1990-95,
or you're forced to go with one of the "other guys" like Valiant, Image, etc.

I'd take Harbinger #1 over Marvel or DC 1990-95 anyday... wouldn't you?
They may not have the same following... but betting on Marvel from the 1990s
means that you're about 30 years too late.

[Daniel Jackson]

I'd take Harbinger #1 over Marvel or DC 1990-95 anyday... wouldn't you?

I know I would.

[myron]

I'd take Harbinger #1 over Marvel or DC 1990-95 anyday... wouldn't you?

I know I would.

same here

[400yrs]

I'd take Harbinger #1 over Marvel or DC 1990-95 anyday... wouldn't you?

Absolutely, considering overprinting and lack of quality in the stories and characters!!

[greg]

I guess I'm just saying that even though we all know Valiant is no Marvel or DC,
that doesn't prohibit it from being the "cream-of-the-crop" for its day.
(EC Comics from the 1950s are still very popular... and long gone.)

In fact, it's hard to think of a time since between the late-1970s and 2000
that Marvel and D.C. were the true "top dogs" as far as key issues go.

The late-1970s have Cerebus, the early 1980s have Comico,
the mid-1980s have TMNT & Miracleman, the late 1980s have Dawn,
(...I guess ASM 300 would also rule that timeframe...),
then the early 1990s have Valiant pre-Unity and Bone....

Apart from Venom in ASM 300, it's hard to name any "mainstream"
characters from that list that are still top-selling new books in 2005...
but that hasn't kept them from dominating their respective timeframes.

[400yrs]

I agree. Compared to the other stuff of the 90s, Valiant should retain and gain value much more - outside of maybe McFarlane ASMs and maybe some X-men - than Marvel or DC of the 90s.

Without a strong relaunch though, I just don't see Valiant being much different than EC or maybe some Charltons. They are popular with a select group because they were great books, but can't appeal to the masses due to a lack of current day exposure. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I'd like to be able to think of Valiant as more than that because it really was the best of the early 90s. Without a well-done relaunch I guess it's up to sites like this to keep the interest stimulated.

[greg]

I agree. Compared to the other stuff of the 90s, Valiant should retain and gain value much more - outside of maybe McFarlane ASMs and maybe some X-men - than Marvel or DC of the 90s.

Without a strong relaunch though, I just don't see Valiant being much different than EC or maybe some Charltons. They are popular with a select group because they were great books, but can't appeal to the masses due to a lack of current day exposure. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I'd like to be able to think of Valiant as more than that because it really was the best of the early 90s. Without a well-done relaunch I guess it's up to sites like this to keep the interest stimulated.

Even if everyone else stops caring, I'll be happy to buy NM/Mint pre-Unity
books for $1 each up until the day I die.
It wouldn't bother me one bit if I was the only one in the world who cared...
Remember... Edgar Church was a lunatic, too.

[depluto]

I agree. Compared to the other stuff of the 90s, Valiant should retain and gain value much more - outside of maybe McFarlane ASMs and maybe some X-men - than Marvel or DC of the 90s.

Without a strong relaunch though, I just don't see Valiant being much different than EC or maybe some Charltons. They are popular with a select group because they were great books, but can't appeal to the masses due to a lack of current day exposure. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I'd like to be able to think of Valiant as more than that because it really was the best of the early 90s. Without a well-done relaunch I guess it's up to sites like this to keep the interest stimulated.

Even if everyone else stops caring, I'll be happy to buy NM/Mint pre-Unity
books for $1 each up until the day I die.
It wouldn't bother me one bit if I was the only one in the world who cared...
Remember... Edgar Church was a lunatic, too.

No, his kids were the loonies for trying to ditch all that stuff just to sell his house.