Is Rob Liefeld calling BS on the Valiant sales numbers?

[arghh!]

And the art on X-Force and New Mutants was and still is tremendous. If you were around then you know full well that it was like nothing you'd ever seen before. You loved it, and bought it. Do not even front.

First let me say I don't hate anyone as a human being over how they draw a comic book. That being said I never liked it. When new mutants was cancelled I bought the first issue of xforce and dropped it. I decided it was a good spot to quit something I didn't like. I will also say that I liked his art better than what Sienkewicz did in new mutants. That was just horrid. He is acting pretty classless on twitter and the valiant guys are being extremely cool with the whole thing. Makes me proud to be a fan.

[Crow331]

After reading the crap he spewed on Twitter last night I don't know how anyone can stick up for him. He cast the first stone, not Valiant. His original comment was snarky and as someone who has worked in this industry for a long time he knows the importance of Valiant succeeding, so to make that comment is just BS IMO.

I never cared for his art but I certainly didn't hate it and I do think there are a lot of band waggoners who probably loved his art back in the day, just like the rest of comic book America, but act like it's been crap from day one. He was definitely one of the hottest artists of the time. BUT even then I would hear rumors of what a full of himself *SQUEE* he was. After not giving the guy a thought since the mid 1990's it only took a few hours on Twitter to realize the dude hasn't change one bit. I didn't hear about all this other stuff that is on Wikipedia, but I'm certainly not surprised either

[Ross2]

I'm all for 2nd chances and perception is in the eye of the beholder, but I read the first few tweets last night and knew it was going to go down quick.

Liefeld just isn't a cool guy, sorry.

[MoonChild]

Dude couldnt even do a free sketch for kids with cystic fibrosis...wow.

[Savant]

Dude couldnt even do a free sketch for kids with cystic fibrosis...wow.

In my humble opinion, he did those kids with cystic fibrosis a favor.

[MoonChild]

Dude couldnt even do a free sketch for kids with cystic fibrosis...wow.

In my humble opinion, he did those kids with cystic fibrosis a favor.

I wanna laugh but that's just really sad. He could have made some decent change for them kids but I know what you mean.

[Savant]

Dude couldnt even do a free sketch for kids with cystic fibrosis...wow.

In my humble opinion, he did those kids with cystic fibrosis a favor.

I wanna laugh but that's just really sad. He could have made some decent change for them kids but I know what you mean.

Agreed. It's weird that he refused to do it.

Isn't Liefeld supposed to be religious?

robertliefeld ‏ @robertliefeld I just ordered 1000 copies of XO #1 from Diamond! eBay here I come!!

Yay! We've converted Liefeld!

Dan Storm ‏ @DanStorm @robertliefeld Nice try Liefeld. Diamond is sold out! #warisdefinitelycoming @ValiantComics

I responded to that particular Liefeld tweet:

Excellent. If you read each of the thousand copies you ordered, you might finally realize what it takes to make a good comic.

[Savant]

The Liefeld hate is just herd behavior. Nothing more.

Not necessarily. A lot of people seriously dislike (And that's being mild) his work.......To be honest, I never really talk about Liefeld. I don't like his work, and that's that. If I was forced to read comics he has worked on, I'd probably be vocal about it, but no one's putting a gun to my head so I'm not reading his stuff.

Peter David compared Liefeld to Ed Wood. I'd agree on Ed Wood, but with a little bit of Michael Bay thrown in.

All credit to Liefeld for being able to do well, financially, in the comic book industry, though.

I got a commission from Marat Mychaels and sat with him and Rob while it was being done and had a great conversation with them both about the haters. Rob said something along the line of "I liked Watchmen...I liked Doom Patrol...I get it that my stuff isn't like that. Not trying to be. My stuff is fun. Action, explosions, fun. No hidden meaning, no deconstruction, just a fun story with fun art."

Guess that supports my Michael Bay comparison.

And the art on X-Force and New Mutants was and still is tremendous. If you were around then you know full well that it was like nothing you'd ever seen before. You loved it, and bought it. Do not even front.

Like nothing I'd ever seen before? It was essentially a variation of McFarlane's art. I had a friend who, at the time, assumed the art on later issues of New Mutants was by McFarlane, until he looked at the credits.

I liked Liefeld's art back then, but I was a young teen (Maybe 14?), so my perception was a bit different than it is now. I honestly can't read those old X-Force & New Mutants issues today, although Liefeld wasn't doing the writing........I do remember hating Youngblood when it came out, just horribly written stuff.

Back in those days, I thought Jim Lee was the greatest artist in comicdom. As I grew older, I realized Lee's panel-work is very lacking (And still is to this day). His work can be aesthetically pleasing, but some of his designs aren't that great, and I find he'd be better as a cover artist than someone who does interior artwork.

Also, I loved Chris Claremont back in those days......Now, I only like Claremont's work when he was teamed up with John Byrne or Alan Davis. I can't read the majority of the rest of Claremont's work, especially due to the cheesy & odd dialogue.

[Paul Nolan]

I responded to that particular Liefeld tweet:

Excellent. If you read each of the thousand copies you ordered, you might finally realize what it takes to make a good comic.

bit of a silly comment when he has the critically acclaimed Glory and Prophet currently on the stands, and is the guy who got Alan Moore on Supreme, not to mention giving the first breaks to creators such as Todd Nauck.... I think he knows what it takes to make a good comic.

[Savant]

I responded to that particular Liefeld tweet:

Excellent. If you read each of the thousand copies you ordered, you might finally realize what it takes to make a good comic.

bit of a silly comment when he has the critically acclaimed Glory and Prophet currently on the stands, and is the guy who got Alan Moore on Supreme, not to mention giving the first breaks to creators such as Todd Nauck.... I think he knows what it takes to make a good comic.

You mean when he's not a part of the creative team? I'd agree on that.

But, I disagree about my comment supposedly being silly. I inferred that, after reading a thousand copies of one good comic, something in his head just may set off and he would suddenly become capable of making a good comic on his own.......I may be reaching with that, though.

[Paul Nolan]

I responded to that particular Liefeld tweet:

Excellent. If you read each of the thousand copies you ordered, you might finally realize what it takes to make a good comic.

bit of a silly comment when he has the critically acclaimed Glory and Prophet currently on the stands, and is the guy who got Alan Moore on Supreme, not to mention giving the first breaks to creators such as Todd Nauck.... I think he knows what it takes to make a good comic.

You mean when he's not a part of the creative team? I'd agree on that.

But, I disagree about my comment supposedly being silly. I inferred that, after reading a thousand copies of one good comic, something in his head just may set off and he would suddenly become capable of making a good comic on his own.......I may be reaching with that, though.

As the owner and creator of the Extreme line he was responsible for getting those people working on his books.

[BugsySig]

I responded to that particular Liefeld tweet:

Excellent. If you read each of the thousand copies you ordered, you might finally realize what it takes to make a good comic.

bit of a silly comment when he has the critically acclaimed Glory and Prophet currently on the stands, and is the guy who got Alan Moore on Supreme, not to mention giving the first breaks to creators such as Todd Nauck.... I think he knows what it takes to make a good comic.

You mean when he's not a part of the creative team? I'd agree on that.

But, I disagree about my comment supposedly being silly. I inferred that, after reading a thousand copies of one good comic, something in his head just may set off and he would suddenly become capable of making a good comic on his own.......I may be reaching with that, though.

As the owner and creator of the Extreme line he was responsible for getting those people working on his books.

Along with Images Editor in Chief, who played a big role according to the articles I read.

[cinlach@aol.com]

I have a difficult time believing that Rob Was the reason Alan Moore wrote Supreme. I think the reseon is one word that starts with "M" and ends with "oney".

[Blood of Heroes]

I think the reseon is one word that starts with "M" and ends with "oney".

Was it Mahoney?

[bobby97801]

I think the reseon is one word that starts with "M" and ends with "oney".

Was it Mahoney?

I am sure Alan could take Mahoney in a fight.... it was Hightower!

[cinlach@aol.com]

I can see Valiant making the book returnable, "Hey, buy 200 copies and if they don't sell you can return up to 175 of them".

I don't really see the issue in that at all, companies like Marvel and DC make books returnable all the time, no ones accusing them of fraud.

I spoke with the owner of my LCS (who's also my best friend in the world so I trust him implicitly) and he said he was never offered that deal and has had several phone and Facebook conversations with Atom. Not once was it mentioned or offered to him, so I question how widespread it was, or if it occurred at all.

He didn't tell me his ordering number, and I didn't ask since it's privileged info, but I don't think he ordered more than 100 because I'm fairly sure he's only getting one QR Variant.

It makes no sense for Valiant to give away 200 copies of the book unless they've got an area that they feel has an audience and none of the stores there bought the book. In a case like that I can see them going, "Here's 200 copies, give it away at FCBD and just see what the response is." as a means to show the retailers that the stuff is good and to get people to ask for it so the retailers in question would buy it.

But if even that scenario is true I still don't see anything fraudulent or shady there.

[ckb]

Back to the point for a minute:

To be fair, I'm actually interested if VALIANT did what some are claiming because that 42k number would be a farce (to say the least). IF they did, what Liefeld is saying is not off base at all, he's merely telling the truth.

There's no way you can return books to Diamond for cash. It makes no sense. Why is Ed (paradise) selling all the extras he has in 10-packs rather than return them to Diamond for cash? It would be much easier. He has 1750 he can return. He sold all the variants already. Do you have to return the variants you "earned" as well. It's all absurd.

[Savant]

I have a difficult time believing that Rob Was the reason Alan Moore wrote Supreme. I think the reseon is one word that starts with "M" and ends with "oney".

Surely you jest! Don't you realize Alan Moore wrote Supreme out of utter respect for Liefeld's artwork and creations? Use some logic. Moore would not have respected Supreme continuity, otherwise.........Oh, wait. He completely ignored past continuity in that comic, and that was one of the sticking points to him going onboard.

I responded to that particular Liefeld tweet:

Excellent. If you read each of the thousand copies you ordered, you might finally realize what it takes to make a good comic.

bit of a silly comment when he has the critically acclaimed Glory and Prophet currently on the stands, and is the guy who got Alan Moore on Supreme, not to mention giving the first breaks to creators such as Todd Nauck.... I think he knows what it takes to make a good comic.

You mean when he's not a part of the creative team? I'd agree on that.

But, I disagree about my comment supposedly being silly. I inferred that, after reading a thousand copies of one good comic, something in his head just may set off and he would suddenly become capable of making a good comic on his own.......I may be reaching with that, though.

As the owner and creator of the Extreme line he was responsible for getting those people working on his books.

Your point being?

Along with Images Editor in Chief, who played a big role according to the articles I read.

Yes, Image was a fantastic company filled with critical praise before Liefeld got booted out. I'm sure Liefeld is responsible for anything good to come out of the Image line.

[depluto]

Matt Hawkins‏@topcowmatt
Heard that Valiant offered retailers a "buy 200 and we"ll reimburse you for 175" X-O #1 deal. Does this actually work? #comicmarket

robertliefeld‏@robertliefeld
It's a page right out of the COWBOYS and ALIENS scam of a few yeras ago @topcowmatt at today's numbers, a little extra $$$ buys a big bump

Blergh.

[kevinbastos]

Mahoney.

I am laughing out loud. Unable to stop.

[David_Cody]

Matt Hawkins‏@topcowmatt
Heard that Valiant offered retailers a "buy 200 and we"ll reimburse you for 175" X-O #1 deal. Does this actually work? #comicmarket

robertliefeld‏@robertliefeld
It's a page right out of the COWBOYS and ALIENS scam of a few yeras ago @topcowmatt at today's numbers, a little extra $$$ buys a big bump

Blergh.

Never liked LIEfeld's work much and after reading this tool bag's baseless assertions, I feel like yacking myself.

[Savant]

Matt Hawkins‏@topcowmatt
Heard that Valiant offered retailers a "buy 200 and we"ll reimburse you for 175" X-O #1 deal. Does this actually work? #comicmarket

robertliefeld‏@robertliefeld
It's a page right out of the COWBOYS and ALIENS scam of a few yeras ago @topcowmatt at today's numbers, a little extra $$$ buys a big bump

Blergh.

Never liked LIEfeld's work much and after reading this tool bag's baseless assertions, I feel like yacking myself.

What would make me yack is if DC announced a Judd Winick/Rob Liefeld creative team for a major book.....I would run far, far away if that happened.

[Big Red]

a Judd Winick/Rob Liefeld creative team for a major book......

Oh, the horror...

[StarBrand]

I don't really get all the Liefield hate.

I went back and read some New Mutants and Youngblood from back in the day, and they were good. They might not have had an amazing story, but they were exciting. When Liefield was at the height of his game, there was almost nobody else making comics as exciting as his. The only folks that could probably be on par were Todd McFarlane and Jim Lee. Their work made comics really, really exciting.

In general, what comic readers have evolved to expect from their comics has changed in the last 20 years, and Liefield hasn't updated his style much to evolve with the times. You can't deny that he was a powerhouse, and made some of the most fun, exciting stuff coming out at the time.

Live and let live.

I tend to agree - and much of the backlash against him may not be warranted. I bought those comics - and liked them. I was bitter, not over the art - but that I had to buy so many copies of everything to make my collection complete. I bought X-Force for a year after he left, when I started dropping everything.

That said, I bought one copy of the first Youngblood. Read it, and thought, "What the *SQUEE* was that piece of *SQUEE*?" Not at all a writer. Soured me on most of Image. For good.

The art, though, I usually liked. When it was Deadpool, Cable, and the like. Not 'Big Brother! Shaft Dutch Cougar-Troll. (Intentional mis-use of punctuation to make a point, yes)

Although, after seeing the Captain America above...

I agree. There are still comic fans out there who are into comics in large part because of their early affectionate memories of Rob's work, along with a few others. He's drawn a few bad images. Most artists have.

[BugsySig]

Along with Images Editor in Chief, who played a big role according to the articles I read.

Yes, Image was a fantastic company filled with critical praise before Liefeld got booted out. I'm sure Liefeld is responsible for anything good to come out of the Image line.

I think I get your point, but I just want to reiterate I was referring the the Extreme relaunch this year. From what I heard, the Editor (forget his name) saw a market for the old Extreme titles, convinced Rob to do so, put the creative team pitches together for him, and Rob made final approval. So other than raking in the loot, and helping to promote the books, he really hasn't done anything for the launch creatively or editorially.