HARBINGER #7 Discussion

[Dr. Solar]

Flamingo!

This issue was great. All the characters shined. It wasn't as Faulkner as Dysart feared it might be.

I loved how everyone interacted, especially Kris and Faith, and Kris and Charlene.

I also thought they did an incredible job of not making it exploitative. It wasn't all fanservice and cookie shots, all of the skin was really used to show how Charlene has been exploited, and has exploited herself.

WANT MOAR HARBINGER!

[swtor1091]

jeez that was not what i was expecting... GREAT issue... my fav one yet. I just wonder if Flamingo will remained crispy or will her skin heal

[Chiclo]

Dude! Flamingo is one bad dude. I really look forward to seeing more of her and Kris.

[Dr. Solar]

Kris totally seemed like an *SQUEE* in this issue, which was pretty cool. The bad side of her super smarts. She was the least pleasant character in this book, but in a great way.

[tchalla8]

OK, while I thought from a craft standpoint this book was excellent, I gotta ask.....what happened to Valiant making these books teen friendly? From the very beginning they indicated their product would be suitable for ages 14 and up. Joshua Dysart even said as much in early interviews. But after reading this issue....there's no way this could be considered appropriate for a teen. At least not mine anyway. Too much suggestive sexuality and inappropriate material. My son is going to be extremely disappointed because he's been on the Valiant wagon big time, and Harbinger is his favorite, but they've been pushing the envelope for a while now, and this issue sort of crossed a line I'm not comfortable with. I'm not trying to get rid of Flamingo's backstory. I just think there has to be a more subtle way of portraying it without going into territory like threesomes and amateur sex videos.

I would like to ask Dinesh or Josh if they would feel comfortable handing this to a 14 year old.

Feel free to disagree, but I'd love to hear some thoughts from everyone on this....

[Dr. Solar]

You've got to make your own decisions, of course.

They've always said that Harbinger would be a fairly edgy book, and take some risks.

I thought this was a very honest story about a girl that had exploited herself, and allowed herself to be exploited. It deals with real stuff in a serious way.

If I had a 14 year old child, I would rather they read Harby #7 than Voodoo #1, which I immediately was reminded of. Voodoo was probably "more appropriate" in some ways, even though it was really just a thin excuse to have a cheesecake book. This issue had a lot of sexual stuff, but it didn't exploit it for titillation, it showed the very real ways that those things effect people.

[pixierosa]

Flamingo - fiery debut, eh? So much to say about her personality. The scene that creeped me out the most and gives me pause is after she sets her douchy boyfriend on fire and he is stumbling out of the car: look in the background at her. The smile on her face is disturbing.

Yes, I know he was an abuser and deserved hell BUT -- nothing is ever her fault. "He" stole her fire, etc. She never faces the fact that her own decisions got her into the drugs/porn mess she was in. Also interesting? Being a known arsonist didn't drive her from her small town, it was being the town slut. She's a young woman who hasn't yet learned her value beyond sexuality. That's likely why she says "don't look at me here" but chooses to have you look at her when she's stripping. It's sad actually.

Kris had the typical girl reaction to strippers. It's not about jealousy; it's about revulsion. And what they showed was not exploitive - it was her reality, and it wasn't drawn in poor taste. I approve. Requires a bit more mature audience, perhaps, but so do most comics. Sexploitation of women in comics is standard, sadly.

I did like her interactions with Faith. And Faith was her usual perky, funny self. Loved the bit between her and Flamingo about flying.

Very good read! Interested in seeing how Flamingo's powers develop and focus to avoid damaging herself. Was a bit weird that she was a crispy critter yet still had a mane of hair. I hope they continue to let her cope and evolve despite us meeting up with the next renegade in the next issue.

[tchalla8]

You've got to make your own decisions, of course.

They've always said that Harbinger would be a fairly edgy book, and take some risks.

I thought this was a very honest story about a girl that had exploited herself, and allowed herself to be exploited. It deals with real stuff in a serious way.

If I had a 14 year old child, I would rather they read Harby #7 than Voodoo #1, which I immediately was reminded of. Voodoo was probably "more appropriate" in some ways, even though it was really just a thin excuse to have a cheesecake book. This issue had a lot of sexual stuff, but it didn't exploit them for titillation, it showed the very real ways that those things effect people.

Understood, but I'm not trying to compare it to other books to see which is worse. I'm comparing it to what they claimed they were going to do in the very beginning.

[cavemold]

http://www.comicvine.com/harbinger-/37- ... w_id=33728|" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My thoughts , Flamingo is great charcter , they really added depth to her.

[Dr. Solar]

Kris had the typical girl reaction to strippers. It's not about jealousy; it's about revulsion. And what they showed was not exploitive - it was her reality, and it wasn't drawn in poor taste. I approve. Requires a bit more mature audience, perhaps, but so do most comics. Sexploitation of women in comics is standard, sadly.

This kinda helps me put into words what stood out to me. There is a trend in comics to depict women in an exploitative, or cheesecake way, even though it is not at all necessary for the story. Look at any DC comic for reference. This issue depicted Flamingo in an exploitative situation, but depicted that situation in a very non-exploitative way. All the skin served a purpose, either for storytelling, or character development, and there didn't really seem to be any more than was needed for this purpose.

[cavemold]

i thought how showed how her being abused by her BF was a very real thing in todays society and her sweet sweet revenge. Was awesome although my nuts felt it from here!

[cavemold]

I felt the sexexplotation was great thing to address and her abusive BF got what was coming at the end. I loved that.

[MarkRoseHFX]

LOVED IT! THIS Flamingo WAY > VH1 Flamingo

Harbinger is so freaking awesome. As far as the content goes that's really such a subjective thing. I'm going to get my 14 year old niece to read this stuff once it comes to a TPB and i'm quite comfortable doing so. Other people may not agree and that's cool too.

[cavemold]

LOVED IT! THIS Flamingo WAY > VH1 Flamingo

Harbinger is so freaking awesome. As far as the content goes that's really such a subjective thing. I'm going to get my 14 year old niece to read this stuff once it comes to a TPB and i'm quite comfortable doing so. Other people may not agree and that's cool too.

AT 14 teens see strippers in some fashion and they watch twilight .... so..

[tchalla8]

LOVED IT! THIS Flamingo WAY > VH1 Flamingo

Harbinger is so freaking awesome. As far as the content goes that's really such a subjective thing. I'm going to get my 14 year old niece to read this stuff once it comes to a TPB and i'm quite comfortable doing so. Other people may not agree and that's cool too.

AT 14 teens see strippers in some fashion and they watch twilight .... so..

so....because they do....that makes strippers appropriate for them? I don't understand your logic.

[cavemold]

LOVED IT! THIS Flamingo WAY > VH1 Flamingo

Harbinger is so freaking awesome. As far as the content goes that's really such a subjective thing. I'm going to get my 14 year old niece to read this stuff once it comes to a TPB and i'm quite comfortable doing so. Other people may not agree and that's cool too.

AT 14 teens see strippers in some fashion and they watch twilight .... so..

so....because they do....that makes strippers appropriate for them? I don't understand your logic.

No, im saying it wont be a shock to them , kids are really smart and they know the differences at the age of 14. Weather not striping is wrong or not is up in the air.

[Chiclo]

No, im saying it wont be a shock to them , kids are really smart and they know the differences at the age of 14. Weather not striping is wrong or not is up in the air.

This is probably the post where the thread is going to go way off-topic BUT -

The purse is full but the eyes are empty. Looks like freedom but feels like death, it's something inbetween I guess.

If I had a child of such an age, I would be concerned about more than just shocking them. This book is definitely too racy for a child of 14, male or female. I would not give it to a 17 year old myself but I would not object if they got it from other source. Particularly were this a relative of mine, I would rather he or she read this where it highlights how miserable Charlene is than see some rap video where it glorifies some fellow with a rakishly askew hat "making it rain up in hurr" on some poor girls.

[cavemold]

No, im saying it wont be a shock to them , kids are really smart and they know the differences at the age of 14. Weather not striping is wrong or not is up in the air.

This is probably the post where the thread is going to go way off-topic BUT -

The purse is full but the eyes are empty. Looks like freedom but feels like death, it's something inbetween I guess.

If I had a child of such an age, I would be concerned about more than just shocking them. This book is definitely too racy for a child of 14, male or female. I would not give it to a 17 year old myself but I would not object if they got it from other source. Particularly were this a relative of mine, I would rather he or she read this where it highlights how miserable Charlene is than see some rap video where it glorifies some fellow with a rakishly askew hat "making it rain up in hurr" on some poor girls.

the reason i say this is because when i was 14 i saw much worst stuff on regular tv. TV/Internet/ Its somthing they are use too by the age of 14. i see your point but i think the general media is much worse than what was in this book. Now would i go out my way and buy this for 14yo . Probably but i wouldn't condemn anyone if they did buy it for their son or daughter. The bible a book i hold dear has MUCH WORSE themes in it. Its read by teens everyday.

[tchalla8]

No, im saying it wont be a shock to them , kids are really smart and they know the differences at the age of 14. Weather not striping is wrong or not is up in the air.

This is probably the post where the thread is going to go way off-topic BUT -

The purse is full but the eyes are empty. Looks like freedom but feels like death, it's something inbetween I guess.

If I had a child of such an age, I would be concerned about more than just shocking them. This book is definitely too racy for a child of 14, male or female. I would not give it to a 17 year old myself but I would not object if they got it from other source. Particularly were this a relative of mine, I would rather he or she read this where it highlights how miserable Charlene is than see some rap video where it glorifies some fellow with a rakishly askew hat "making it rain up in hurr" on some poor girls.

I'm just not looking forward to telling my son "sorry, not this time". Ah, well...

[Sethr]

I have to say that this book was fantastic. Where they are taking this book really excites me. I flip flopped a bit on my favorite book of the relaunch but harbinger is def it. Although I will add that he most recent issue of X-O was may favorite X-O story ever.

About the content, I am a pediatrician and work a bunch with adolescents. They ar so much smarter and knowledgable than I think we remember as adults. I may be preaching here but they need frank talks about sx, intimacy, and relationships. Nothing in his book glamorized it and they actually serve as a warning of the dangers. They see and experience his from heir peers everyday. Ask your 14 year old son if kids in his class are making sex tapes or having threesomes. I bet he knows some classmates that have. Im not saying he should be doing these hings or we should tell these kids these actions should b done, but they are out there. Its our job as adults to help them make tough choices and support them as they learn and give Them he information, support, and love they need I'm on my soap box here but it makes me so mad when I see young peoples lives affected by the adults around them who forget how hard and confusing growing up can be. And don't forget it is harder and faster so each generation.

Seth

[KXXX]

The Harbinger Christmas Special!

Huxley's Nuts Roasting... ah, it...

[BugsySig]

I don't want to repeat the various reviews people are posting because I agree with almost all of them (even Chiclo...who is making an absurd amount of sense lately ), so I will just say this:

This issue was really good. And really disturbing in many ways. It was "disturbingly good", I guess you could say.

Once again Dysart has managed to give a Harby character more characterization in one issue than in the entire original run. People complain about decompression in comics, but those people need to read this book. THIS is how you slow down a story while still packing in a ton of plot development and character development. This book is so good it's ridiculous.

[Dr. Solar]

Also:

"No one wants another Harbinger War."

Whosawhatnow?!?

[Chiclo]

(even Chiclo...who is making an absurd amount of sense lately )

Once you figure out how to read me, there is much wisdom to be had. Much like a fortune cookie.

Also:

"No one wants another Harbinger War."

Whosawhatnow?!?

Foreshadowing of Harbinger 0.

[Keith]

Also:

"No one wants another Harbinger War."

Whosawhatnow?!?

And who was Harada talking to? My inital hunch is some "inside man" at PRS... maybe even Simon Oreck, himself?