The Path to Pop Culture Ubiquity

[jmatt]

I am presently rereading my Avengers run and I've been noticing things Marvel did to build its way into the pop culture arena. A fan club with the Merry Marvel Marching Society, ads for tee-shirts, etc.

But starting at issue #32 or so, along the gutter at the bottom of the pages they started advertising "Watch Marvel Super Heroes on TV". And it got me thinking.

Have you ever seen the movie "Working Girl", where Melanie Griffith explains her idea for helping a company break into media by suggesting they abandon their grand notions for a television network and start with a more intermediate step like radio stations?

I was wondering: There's been so much talk of what movies Valiant will attempt in the coming years. What if they did likewise, and instead of pushing for a big movie, they were patient and built an audience with an unbelievably top-notch cartoon series? Something that would reach down into the demographic and start to capture the imagination of kids and teens? God only knows we hardly see kids in comic book stores these days.

There are loads of successful DC and Marvel based cartoons out there, and I don't just mean the old 70s Spider-Man. Heck, I keep seeing ads for Planet Hulk on Netflix.

Maybe it's something for Valiant to consider. Just a thought.

[MarkRoseHFX]

I agree 100%. Personally i'd love to see an animated series and/or an animated film first. I think X-O Manowar would be kick *SQUEE* animated.

[Burrito Boy]

Forget cartoons. Start with a more intermediate step like Valiant radio shows.

[MarkRoseHFX]

Forget cartoons. Start with a more intermediate step like Valiant radio shows.

like the old Superman one....sweeeet

[lorddunlow]

Valiant bubble gum comic strips. Ala Bazooka Joe?

[jmatt]

I agree 100%. Personally i'd love to see an animated series and/or an animated film first. I think X-O Manowar would be kick *SQUEE* animated.

Absolutely. Perhaps a less gory Bloodshot as well.

What got me was that Marvel was putting cartoons on the air in 1966 with less than four years of stories behind most of the characters.

What worries me about Valiant movies is Spawn. The rush to put something on the screen results in a B movie that does little to advance its emergence into widespread public acceptance.

[MarkRoseHFX]

Valiant bubble gum comic strips. Ala Bazooka Joe?

I always hated those comic strips. even as a little kid I thought they were stupid.

[MarkRoseHFX]

I agree 100%. Personally i'd love to see an animated series and/or an animated film first. I think X-O Manowar would be kick *SQUEE* animated.

Absolutely. Perhaps a less gory Bloodshot as well.

What got me was that Marvel was putting cartoons on the air in 1966 with less than four years of stories behind most of the characters.

What worries me about Valiant movies is Spawn. The rush to put something on the screen results in a B movie that does little to advance its emergence into widespread public acceptance.

GREAT example. the Spawn animated series was pretty awesome, but that movie

[lorddunlow]

Well, as long as VEI makes movies to the caliber of the Mario Bros. movie...

[MarkRoseHFX]

Well, as long as VEI makes movies to the caliber of the Mario Bros. movie...

or some great animated series like Savage Dragon or WildC.A.T.s

[lorddunlow]

Sadly, I actually like the WildC.A.T.S cartoon.

[bygranddesign]

I think X-O, Shadowman, A&A and probably Q&W can translate well to saturday morning cartoon versions without compromising too much from the original material.

But Bloodshot and Harbinger no way, IMO.

If it was ever a Movie, I would be upset if Harbinger wasn't rated R. What differentiates Harbinger from other mutant comics should be the seriousness and the extreme and realistic character flaws of its main characters. This comic is adult themed - Mind control and Rape, extreme violence (Heads exploding!), and insightful grownup commentary on war and power. I would hate to see Harbinger compromised into something cutesy for kids.

[MarkRoseHFX]

Sadly, I actually like the WildC.A.T.S cartoon.

I liked it back then but I tried watching it last year and it doesn't hold up well imo. But hey compared to Savage Dragon it's BRILLIANT

too bad this never got made or we'd have a whole new level of suck to compare stuff to:

[lorddunlow]

I think X-O, Shadowman, A&A and probably Q&W can translate well to saturday morning cartoon versions without compromising too much from the original material.

But Bloodshot and Harbinger no way, IMO.

If it was ever a Movie, I would be upset if Harbinger wasn't rated R. What differentiates Harbinger from other mutant comics should be the seriousness and the extreme and realistic character flaws of its main characters. This comic is adult themed - Mind control and Rape, extreme violence (Heads exploding!), and insightful grownup commentary on war and power. I would hate to see Harbinger compromised into something cutesy for kids.

The Harbinger head popping always reminds me of the movie Rubber. That's a really weird movie. The tire pops peoples heads in the exact same way, though.

[jmatt]

Sadly, I actually like the WildC.A.T.S cartoon.

I liked it back then but I tried watching it last year and it doesn't hold up well imo. But hey compared to Savage Dragon it's BRILLIANT

too bad this never got made or we'd have a whole new level of suck to compare stuff to:

Yeah, but they had the right idea. And of course, there's no making a good Youngblood anything...

[MrDomino]

I tend to agree with most of the above, although Valiant's gotta go where the money is, and right now, that's in cinemas still, for whatever reason.

That said, I think an interesting opportunity is developing in the streaming market that most license-holders haven't really looked into yet, and that's the emergence of original streaming content via various services (i.e. House of Cards on Netflix). I think a Valiant show, with a reasonably low budget, and small season orders, could find a place to actually realistically flourish in that market.

[Sven the Returned]

I agree 100%. Personally i'd love to see an animated series and/or an animated film first. I think X-O Manowar would be kick *SQUEE* animated.

Absolutely. Perhaps a less gory Bloodshot as well.

What got me was that Marvel was putting cartoons on the air in 1966 with less than four years of stories behind most of the characters.

What worries me about Valiant movies is Spawn. The rush to put something on the screen results in a B movie that does little to advance its emergence into widespread public acceptance.

The quality was thwe problem. Dredd is an excelent B movie. The Urban one.

[jmatt]

I agree 100%. Personally i'd love to see an animated series and/or an animated film first. I think X-O Manowar would be kick *SQUEE* animated.

Absolutely. Perhaps a less gory Bloodshot as well.

What got me was that Marvel was putting cartoons on the air in 1966 with less than four years of stories behind most of the characters.

What worries me about Valiant movies is Spawn. The rush to put something on the screen results in a B movie that does little to advance its emergence into widespread public acceptance.

The quality was thwe problem. Dredd is an excelent B movie. The Urban one.

But Dredd was around for a long time before it became a movie. Hellboy was a great movie, as was The Crow (one of my all-time favs)... and I suppose it is fair to say that they garnered an audience that never read the comic or even heard of the characters before the movie came along.

I dunno, it just seems to me that an intermediate step in cartoons would build more name recognition before a movie came along, and could be done for 1/10,000 of the price. I'm concerned that a rush toward the Holy Grail of putting something up on the big screen would result in something less than spectacular.

I suppose that if they managed to equal the production value of Hellboy, I would be satisfied. But that's a gamble for a company that doesn't have the pop culture momentum or financing like DC or Marvel.

Cartoons wouldn't hurt, that's all I'm saying. And it'd build a customer base of kids that'd juice the sales of actions figures, etc.

[nutflush76]

I agree 100%. Personally i'd love to see an animated series and/or an animated film first. I think X-O Manowar would be kick *SQUEE* animated.

Absolutely. Perhaps a less gory Bloodshot as well.

What got me was that Marvel was putting cartoons on the air in 1966 with less than four years of stories behind most of the characters.

What worries me about Valiant movies is Spawn. The rush to put something on the screen results in a B movie that does little to advance its emergence into widespread public acceptance.

The quality was thwe problem. Dredd is an excelent B movie. The Urban one.

But Dredd was around for a long time before it became a movie. Hellboy was a great movie, as was The Crow (one of my all-time favs)... and I suppose it is fair to say that they garnered an audience that never read the comic or even heard of the characters before the movie came along.

I dunno, it just seems to me that an intermediate step in cartoons would build more name recognition before a movie came along, and could be done for 1/10,000 of the price. I'm concerned that a rush toward the Holy Grail of putting something up on the big screen would result in something less than spectacular.

I suppose that if they managed to equal the production value of Hellboy, I would be satisfied. But that's a gamble for a company that doesn't have the pop culture momentum or financing like DC or Marvel.

Cartoons wouldn't hurt, that's all I'm saying. And it'd build a customer base of kids that'd juice the sales of actions figures, etc.

I don't think Saturday morning cartoons are the way to go. I just don't see any of the VEI properties translating as kid stuff. You would have to be making a cartoon for a pretty young age group 7-8 and I just don't think that is a route that I want to see VEI take. I also don't think VEI has any interest in making their stuff kid-friendly.

As for movies.... Why does a movie need to be on an established property?

There was this little movie called Avatar that came out a few years back and it did ok. Other than James Cameron, what did anybody know about that movie before it came out? Most movies are that way. Someone comes up with an idea, they get some talented people on board, and then they make a movie. Just because Hollywood seems to only make movies out of established franchises, doesn't mean that is reality.

[bygranddesign]

I find movies to be pretty limiting especially if you're hoping for insightful, character driven storytelling especially in the fantasy/action genre. Studios need to make their money back and you do that by appealing to as wide a range an audience as possible - character building takes a back seat to over the top action that will appeal to the masses. Plus telling a story in 2 hours in which we are supposed to care about a character is tough to do - so make the characters as cookie cutter and obvious as possible and move along the plot to the action scenes. This is why I prefer comics, books and television - that's where my favorite storytellers can flesh out a story and characters without compromise... (There are plenty of movies I love and think are brilliant .. Just generally speaking .. IMO it's tough to make a movie from heavily layered source material)

If I was Valiant I would be going to a premium channel like HBO or Showtime and pushing an adult themed Harbinger that will play off the popular Mutant Mythos but with a more grounded, realistic and deeply character driven theme. 12 episode seasons of Harbinger where nothing needs to be compromised for the sake of over the top action - where Dysart exploration of complex flawed heroes, war and power can be fully realized would be a dream come true.

[Baramos]

Re: Advertising,

I think what we're seeing with Valiant is quality over quantity. For example, take the t-shirts on their new store, for $23 I'm sure you get a very nice quality shirt, but if they charged 15 bucks and put them on whatever cheapo shirt, they'd probably sell more and get more people wearing them at conventions to help "spread the word" or whatever. I will probably spring for the Bloodshot shirt but I have to "talk myself into it". Like clearly the product is not being made with the purpose of advertising the "brand" like with so many other things, but with actually providing the fan with something to enjoy. It's endearing but probably not the best move if your main goal is "cultural ubiquity".

BUT in the end maybe people will be more attracted to a company that is genuine in their intentions.

Re: Movies and cartoons, etc.

I would watch them, but it is hard to judge how successful that kind of thing could be. There was a Turok movie made a few years ago, for instance, but I'm pretty sure it sold poorly, and as a fan I didn't find it that enjoyable, either. So direct-to-DVD is an option but to be more successful it might make more sense to try and release it digitally on Netflix or something as well if they were ever to go the route of animated features. I for one enjoy animated features quite a bit, but they have to be a good quality of animation (take the new DC animated movies as a blueprint, I've found most of them to be phenomenal).

[BugsySig]

Given VALIANTs more mature natured books, I'd love to see a series of Anime cartoons like the ones Marvel had on G4 a while back (XMen, Wolverine, Ironman and Blade I think). I could very easily see XO, Bloodshot, Harbinger, Shadowman, Eternal Warrior, Ninjak and Rai in that style.

Remember, back in the 90s it wasn't the Saturday morning cartoons that sparked pop culture status for Image books, it was the HBO Spawn and MTV The Maxx cartoons. Marvel and DC will always have the market cornered on Saturday (now Sunday) mornings, but they also make more mature direct to DVD movies that have done pretty well. So have Hellboy and Lady Death. That's the avenue I'd like to see VEI go down.

[Baramos]

I wouldn't mind seeing something like that as long as they weren't terrible and were handled by an American writer (those were actual anime in Japan, on TV and everything, before G4 bought the American rights to them, from what I understand, and they...took some liberties, let us say). I have no problem with Japanese studios doing the animation (look at the amazing work various Japanese studios did on Batman: The Animated Series) but I'd like an American writer on them if it were done, and I don't think the anime style is very fitting for any of these concepts, either, so I think Batman: TAS is another good example of what should be done (they should do them in the American style).

[jmatt]

There was this little movie called Avatar that came out a few years back and it did ok.

Yes, well I suppose if Valiant spends $250 million making a movie, it'll be pretty good.

[MrDomino]

Re: animation - I'd love to see Peter Chung (Aeon Flux, Phantom 2040, Reign, The Animatrix, Chronicles of Riddick: Dark Fury) take a stab at X-O Manowar. His style would fit the current incarnation of the character pretty well.