Shadowman #9 Discussion

[jmatt]

Any ideas who the new writer will be?

This is a little perplexing, as Valiant usually is quick with announcements and such.

[400yrs]

#9, like all the issues before it, was fine but didnt really grab me. I still can't help but hear Harry Potter as the voice of Jack and Voldemort as the voice of Darque. I even found myself trying to match up the other characters. Heroine, Alyssa. Shape, samedi. Sirius, dox. There were a few lines in there from jack and Darque that felt like they came straight from the hp movies. I hope they get away from that vibe.

I'll definitely be getting the next few issues to see what they do with it.

[pixierosa]

#9, like all the issues before it, was fine but didnt really grab me. I still can't help but hear Harry Potter as the voice of Jack and Voldemort as the voice of Darque. I even found myself trying to match up the other characters. Heroine, Alyssa. Shape, samedi. Sirius, dox. There were a few lines in there from jack and Darque that felt like they came straight from the hp movies. I hope they get away from that vibe.

I'll definitely be getting the next few issues to see what they do with it.

The early issues reminded me tremendously of Buffy the Vampire Slayer (tv version). The watcher (Dox), the big bad (Darque & Twist), the reluctant hero (Jack), and the Scoobies (Alyssa). The dialogue had a bit of that Whedon-esque vibe, too. Even tho Buffy dealt with monsters, etc., it was essentially a drama that focused on common human problems and conditions, except they illustrated the point with demons and monsters. Of course the superhero element was there, too, but I wouldn't have called it a superhero or horror genre. Shadowman was giving me that same vibe. I think the original series as penned by Bob Hall was similar in this aspect. Otherworldly but based around a man and how all of this fit into his life, plus giving very human elements (such as jazz) to the unexplainable (even though he had a voodoo spirit possessing him, his fight choreography was based upon jazz).

[bygranddesign]

#9, like all the issues before it, was fine but didnt really grab me. I still can't help but hear Harry Potter as the voice of Jack and Voldemort as the voice of Darque. I even found myself trying to match up the other characters. Heroine, Alyssa. Shape, samedi. Sirius, dox. There were a few lines in there from jack and Darque that felt like they came straight from the hp movies. I hope they get away from that vibe.

I'll definitely be getting the next few issues to see what they do with it.

yeah now that I think about it ... I do get that vibe as well

its like the power of love vs. the power of fear theme in HP

Master Darque has many that serve him but not out of love but out of FEAR ... hence the reason why he is "alone"

the dialogue felt very hollywood movie good vs. evil type cliche

not that i'm hating on Harry Potter ... very cool books and enjoyable reads ... but just not the type of vibe I want to feel when reading a SM book

[Robert of the tower]

plus giving very human elements (such as jazz) to the unexplainable (even though he had a voodoo spirit possessing him, his fight choreography was based upon jazz).

This is cool,man.

I´m also a jazz musician and I would love draw something about that. I´m not a writer, so..just I hope the opportunity.
http://www.goear.com/listen/28849df/balada-murray" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.goear.com/listen/0a73db2/blues-bari-yo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[400yrs]

its like the power of love vs. the power of fear theme in HP

Master Darque has many that serve him but not out of love but out of FEAR ... hence the reason why he is "alone"

the dialogue felt very hollywood movie good vs. evil type cliche

not that i'm hating on Harry Potter ... very cool books and enjoyable reads ... but just not the type of vibe I want to feel when reading a SM

I love me some hp, but not in my comics.

[bygranddesign]

plus giving very human elements (such as jazz) to the unexplainable (even though he had a voodoo spirit possessing him, his fight choreography was based upon jazz).

This is cool,man.

I´m also a jazz musician and I would love draw something about that. I´m not a writer, so..just I hope the opportunity.
http://www.goear.com/listen/28849df/balada-murray" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.goear.com/listen/0a73db2/blues-bari-yo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow ... also a jazz musician

that clinches it ... you are the perfect artist for Shadowman

Love your work (Shadowman #0 is still my favorite book of the valiant re-launch) ... and looking forward to seeing more of your art in issue #10

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

Just read this issue. I have been a Shadowman basher since "I'm Shadowman", but I do have to say, that this was the best issue so far (aside from #0). But, that's not saying much, because I still felt like there was so much wrong with it!
Although some pages/panels were awesome, how many artists does it take to draw a comic book? it really does take you out of it.
Also, I find it strange that Jack seems to learn more about his Loa power from Darque's villainous monologuing than he ever learned from Dox and Alyssa. Yes, Darque said something to Jack about being able to listen to the Loa, and having the ability to block Darque's magic. He AND we never learn that from Dox! WHAT?!?!? Not even a pep talk before he goes into battle for the first time....for his life? Really?

I did however like the fact that there seemed to be a Sandria reference. And some of the art was great for this book. No Dr. Mirage, but the girl with the bunny was there...

We'll see where it goes next...

[Bl00dsh0t]

Am much as it pains me to do so, I'm going to drop this title. I'll pick up #10 but that'll be my last one. The standalone and then anthology don't do anything for me. I hope the continuity of the book is sorted out by #12 but with such little press about the series I dont see that happening...

Might be best to put this title aside for a little while then return to it once the direction of the character is bedded down.

[400yrs]

Might be best to put this title aside for a little while then return to it once the direction of the character is bedded down.

Exactly. Shadowman has felt like the red headed stepchild so far (no offense to red headed step children).

[cplsimon]

Might be best to put this title aside for a little while then return to it once the direction of the character is bedded down.

Exactly. Shadowman has felt like the red headed stepchild so far (no offense to red headed step children).

[CallMeBloodshot]

Ok,

Had to wait a week and a half for this one and its good I didn't get all worked up about it because this issue was, you know well it kind of sucked. I always try to cover my *SQUEE* when giving a "low" opinion of an issue because its pretty much most comics would get at least a middling grade from me as decency is easily argued. I mean people put work in it and what not so thats always worth something, but idk I want to just be honest: I think it sucked. Maybe I'm just bored of making excuses for it, and I'm not saying there aren't good bits in here (RDLT's art) but what has this book really accomplished in 10 issues? For me, not much. This second arc dragged on with Darque explaining his motives every other page and JJ channeling Jason Aaron's Gorr with lines like: "i will free us", "i will end all suffering", "i will end him(god)". I'm still not sure as to why Darque has this grudge with God which i also find dumb as im an atheist and could give a *SQUEE* but whatever, most villains think they are one. Either way, it still don't really make much sense. You'd think with all this hammering it home the pay off would have had some impact, but instead it just felt rather dull to be honest. For all the time spent on Darque he still isnt that compelling to me. And not surprisingly, least of all is Jack. Now I know for sure that I don't like JJ's writing. I've read some of his other stuff and I'm realizing there was little chance I'd love this.

Halloween issue please. And no more Neil Edwards on art either. Just no, I don't like it. And as for a grade I honestly don't know, maybe a 2/5. I'm rather disappointed. If this wasn't Valiant I'd see this as a good jumping OFF point. But because I trust them, I'll keep buying. It could only get better from here and inspite of JJ's best efforts I still like the idea of Shadowman as a character.

[jmatt]

Ok,

Had to wait a week and a half for this one and its good I didn't get all worked up about it because this issue was, you know well it kind of sucked. I always try to cover my *SQUEE* when giving a "low" opinion of an issue because its pretty much most comics would get at least a middling grade from me as decency is easily argued. I mean people put work in it and what not so thats always worth something, but idk I want to just be honest: I think it sucked. Maybe I'm just bored of making excuses for it, and I'm not saying there aren't good bits in here (RDLT's art) but what has this book really accomplished in 10 issues? For me, not much. This second arc dragged on with Darque explaining his motives every other page and JJ channeling Jason Aaron's Gorr with lines like: "i will free us", "i will end all suffering", "i will end him(god)". I'm still not sure as to why Darque has this grudge with God which i also find dumb as im an atheist and could give a *SQUEE* but whatever, most villains think they are one. Either way, it still don't really make much sense. You'd think with all this hammering it home the pay off would have had some impact, but instead it just felt rather dull to be honest. For all the time spent on Darque he still isnt that compelling to me. And not surprisingly, least of all is Jack. Now I know for sure that I don't like JJ's writing. I've read some of his other stuff and I'm realizing there was little chance I'd love this.

Halloween issue please. And no more Neil Edwards on art either. Just no, I don't like it. And as for a grade I honestly don't know, maybe a 2/5. I'm rather disappointed. If this wasn't Valiant I'd see this as a good jumping OFF point. But because I trust them, I'll keep buying. It could only get better from here and inspite of JJ's best efforts I still like the idea of Shadowman as a character.

Dude.

[CallMeBloodshot]

Ok,

Had to wait a week and a half for this one and its good I didn't get all worked up about it because this issue was, you know well it kind of sucked. I always try to cover my *SQUEE* when giving a "low" opinion of an issue because its pretty much most comics would get at least a middling grade from me as decency is easily argued. I mean people put work in it and what not so thats always worth something, but idk I want to just be honest: I think it sucked. Maybe I'm just bored of making excuses for it, and I'm not saying there aren't good bits in here (RDLT's art) but what has this book really accomplished in 10 issues? For me, not much. This second arc dragged on with Darque explaining his motives every other page and JJ channeling Jason Aaron's Gorr with lines like: "i will free us", "i will end all suffering", "i will end him(god)". I'm still not sure as to why Darque has this grudge with God which i also find dumb as im an atheist and could give a *SQUEE* but whatever, most villains think they are one. Either way, it still don't really make much sense. You'd think with all this hammering it home the pay off would have had some impact, but instead it just felt rather dull to be honest. For all the time spent on Darque he still isnt that compelling to me. And not surprisingly, least of all is Jack. Now I know for sure that I don't like JJ's writing. I've read some of his other stuff and I'm realizing there was little chance I'd love this.

Halloween issue please. And no more Neil Edwards on art either. Just no, I don't like it. And as for a grade I honestly don't know, maybe a 2/5. I'm rather disappointed. If this wasn't Valiant I'd see this as a good jumping OFF point. But because I trust them, I'll keep buying. It could only get better from here and inspite of JJ's best efforts I still like the idea of Shadowman as a character.

Dude.

Yeah I typed this on my phone so its easy to miss that. But I now dub you grammar police. Your avatar looks like a cop anyway

[jmatt]

Yeah I typed this on my phone so its easy to miss that. But I now dub you grammar police. Your avatar looks like a cop anyway

It's just easier to read, and I know everyone wants their posts to be read. But when something is just a huge wall of unbroken text, the instantaneous economics of "Do I read this?" kick in.

[Zaphod]

Ok,

Had to wait a week and a half for this one and its good I didn't get all worked up about it because this issue was, you know well it kind of sucked. I always try to cover my *SQUEE* when giving a "low" opinion of an issue because its pretty much most comics would get at least a middling grade from me as decency is easily argued. I mean people put work in it and what not so thats always worth something, but idk I want to just be honest: I think it sucked. Maybe I'm just bored of making excuses for it, and I'm not saying there aren't good bits in here (RDLT's art) but what has this book really accomplished in 10 issues? For me, not much. This second arc dragged on with Darque explaining his motives every other page and JJ channeling Jason Aaron's Gorr with lines like: "i will free us", "i will end all suffering", "i will end him(god)". I'm still not sure as to why Darque has this grudge with God which i also find dumb as im an atheist and could give a *SQUEE* but whatever, most villains think they are one. Either way, it still don't really make much sense. You'd think with all this hammering it home the pay off would have had some impact, but instead it just felt rather dull to be honest. For all the time spent on Darque he still isnt that compelling to me. And not surprisingly, least of all is Jack. Now I know for sure that I don't like JJ's writing. I've read some of his other stuff and I'm realizing there was little chance I'd love this.

Halloween issue please. And no more Neil Edwards on art either. Just no, I don't like it. And as for a grade I honestly don't know, maybe a 2/5. I'm rather disappointed. If this wasn't Valiant I'd see this as a good jumping OFF point. But because I trust them, I'll keep buying. It could only get better from here and inspite of JJ's best efforts I still like the idea of Shadowman as a character.

Dude.

Yeah I typed this on my phone so its easy to miss that. But I now dub you grammar police. Your avatar looks like a cop anyway

I resent the method of handing out titles so callously and carelessly. I mean it's not as if supreme diplomatic power should be given out by moist tarts who (whom?) reside in ponds or anything.

[CallMeBloodshot]

Ok,

Had to wait a week and a half for this one and its good I didn't get all worked up about it because this issue was, you know well it kind of sucked. I always try to cover my *SQUEE* when giving a "low" opinion of an issue because its pretty much most comics would get at least a middling grade from me as decency is easily argued. I mean people put work in it and what not so thats always worth something, but idk I want to just be honest: I think it sucked. Maybe I'm just bored of making excuses for it, and I'm not saying there aren't good bits in here (RDLT's art) but what has this book really accomplished in 10 issues? For me, not much. This second arc dragged on with Darque explaining his motives every other page and JJ channeling Jason Aaron's Gorr with lines like: "i will free us", "i will end all suffering", "i will end him(god)". I'm still not sure as to why Darque has this grudge with God which i also find dumb as im an atheist and could give a *SQUEE* but whatever, most villains think they are one. Either way, it still don't really make much sense. You'd think with all this hammering it home the pay off would have had some impact, but instead it just felt rather dull to be honest. For all the time spent on Darque he still isnt that compelling to me. And not surprisingly, least of all is Jack. Now I know for sure that I don't like JJ's writing. I've read some of his other stuff and I'm realizing there was little chance I'd love this.

Halloween issue please. And no more Neil Edwards on art either. Just no, I don't like it. And as for a grade I honestly don't know, maybe a 2/5. I'm rather disappointed. If this wasn't Valiant I'd see this as a good jumping OFF point. But because I trust them, I'll keep buying. It could only get better from here and inspite of JJ's best efforts I still like the idea of Shadowman as a character.

Dude.

Yeah I typed this on my phone so its easy to miss that. But I now dub you grammar police. Your avatar looks like a cop anyway

I resent the method of handing out titles so callously and carelessly. I mean it's not as if supreme diplomatic power should be given out by moist tarts who (whom?) reside in ponds or anything.

Well since I'm already callous I might as well call you a cock

[Baramos]

Yeah, I think the plotting is the biggest weakness with this book. It is difficult to understand exactly what is happening. I just got done reading Quantum and Woody #2 and Archer & Armstrong #12 and something else I noticed is it seemed like they had more pages or are being given a lot more time for action to play out in comparison to Shadowman, which crams so much into one issue that I think it affects how they draw the action in a way that makes it somewhat incoherent.

It also didn't help that those two issues of Quantum and Woody and Archer & Armstrong were absolutely amazing and blew Shadowman #9 out of the water by a wide, wide margin.

I hope for the next arc they seriously rethink the direction of this book or maybe shake-up the creative team a bit. The amazing art on a few of the pages is great, but I'd rather have a consistent visual direction throughout than having it change every three pages. And the plotting seriously needs some more thought put into it--there needs to be a better "quest" for the main character in the next arc, and it would help if it involved some interpersonal relationships between him and other interesting characters and some actual introspection on his part, as well.

[BugsySig]

^^^^^

Yes, way too much going on in this arc. You had everything Darque was doing...fine. You had Samedi plotting against him and killing the Brethren through his disciple...ok. Samedi cutting a deal with Darque then double crossing him...alright.

Then we also had Doctor Mirage....cool, but completely unnecessary for the plot and disappeared for the last 3 issues. There was the death of the waitress...only met her once so it didn't hold any weight. The death of Dox...do we even care? And that weird side plot where some guys were stealing kids nightmares and turning them into a drug...wtf?!?

Oh, and all the crappy art mixed in with brilliant stuff from Zircher and De la Torre to add to the cacophony.

[jmatt]

And that weird side plot where some guys were stealing kids nightmares and turning them into a drug...wtf?!?

It's a mess, to be sure.

[bygranddesign]

Yeah, I agree with a lot of what Bugsy is saying

Shadowman has had some brilliant issues in this run but most of the time it feels like its being filtered through some marketing focus group

Oh, you want more emotional drama that will have a personal impact on Jack? Ok, we'll kill off this waitress that Jack sort of likes but she will feel more like a prop than a character and Jacks confessional at the cemetery will feel more tedious than heartfelt

Oh, you really like Master Darque? Ok, we will give you so much Master Darque that you'll be sick of him

oh, you want Jack to get angry more? Ok, lets have Jack display some ham fisted anger toward Dox and Alyssa for no apparent reason

Oh, you really liked the Deadside? Ok, lets spend most of an arc inside the deadside.

Oh, you want to see a major new character introduced to spice up the series? Ok, lets introduce a re-imagined Dr. Mirage as a women! but lets not know how she really fits into the storyline and quickly discard her

Oh, you want us to build up more of a relationship between Jack and Dox? Ok, lets throw in some flashback scene between them that feels completely inauthentic

You can feel the 2nd guessing and the over compensating at times ... When I read Harbinger, A&A and even X-O I feel like the writers don't even care about our expectations. They know they are smarter than the audience when it comes to storytelling and they are just focused on just executing their vision.

And I don't even know if 'too much going on' is a problem with Shadowman. Look at A&A ... there is so much going on and so many unresolved plot points but we go along for the ride because its so rich with genuine moments and inspired storytelling.

I'm re-reading this and realize how negative I sound - its not very balanced. I do like plenty of things about this book and have high hopes for it - SM is one of my favorite characters of all time. So take this for what it is ... Ranting to blow off some steam

[BugsySig]

Yeah, I agree with a lot of what Bugsy is saying

Shadowman has had some brilliant issues in this run but most of the time it feels like its being filtered through some marketing focus group

Oh, you want more emotional drama that will have a personal impact on Jack? Ok, we'll kill off this waitress that Jack sort of likes but she will feel more like a prop than a character and Jacks confessional at the cemetery will feel more tedious than heartfelt

Oh, you really like Master Darque? Ok, we will give you so much Master Darque that you'll be sick of him

oh, you want Jack to get angry more? Ok, lets have Jack display some ham fisted anger toward Dox and Alyssa for no apparent reason

Oh, you really liked the Deadside? Ok, lets spend most of an arc inside the deadside.

Oh, you want to see a major new character introduced to spice up the series? Ok, lets introduce a re-imagined Dr. Mirage as a women! but lets not know how she really fits into the storyline and quickly discard her

Oh, you want us to build up more of a relationship between Jack and Dox? Ok, lets throw in some flashback scene between them that feels completely inauthentic

You can feel the 2nd guessing and the over compensating at times ... When I read Harbinger, A&A and even X-O I feel like the writers don't even care about our expectations. They know they are smarter than the audience when it comes to storytelling and they are just focused on just executing their vision.

And I don't even know if 'too much going on' is a problem with Shadowman. Look at A&A ... there is so much going on and so many unresolved plot points but we go along for the ride because its so rich with genuine moments and inspired storytelling.

I'm re-reading this and realize how negative I sound - its not very balanced. I do like plenty of things about this book and have high hopes for it - SM is one of my favorite characters of all time. So take this for what it is ... Ranting to blow off some steam

Sounds pretty accurate to me

[Bl00dsh0t]

Yeah, I agree with a lot of what Bugsy is saying

Shadowman has had some brilliant issues in this run but most of the time it feels like its being filtered through some marketing focus group

Oh, you want more emotional drama that will have a personal impact on Jack? Ok, we'll kill off this waitress that Jack sort of likes but she will feel more like a prop than a character and Jacks confessional at the cemetery will feel more tedious than heartfelt

Oh, you really like Master Darque? Ok, we will give you so much Master Darque that you'll be sick of him

oh, you want Jack to get angry more? Ok, lets have Jack display some ham fisted anger toward Dox and Alyssa for no apparent reason

Oh, you really liked the Deadside? Ok, lets spend most of an arc inside the deadside.

Oh, you want to see a major new character introduced to spice up the series? Ok, lets introduce a re-imagined Dr. Mirage as a women! but lets not know how she really fits into the storyline and quickly discard her

Oh, you want us to build up more of a relationship between Jack and Dox? Ok, lets throw in some flashback scene between them that feels completely inauthentic

You can feel the 2nd guessing and the over compensating at times ... When I read Harbinger, A&A and even X-O I feel like the writers don't even care about our expectations. They know they are smarter than the audience when it comes to storytelling and they are just focused on just executing their vision.

And I don't even know if 'too much going on' is a problem with Shadowman. Look at A&A ... there is so much going on and so many unresolved plot points but we go along for the ride because its so rich with genuine moments and inspired storytelling.

I'm re-reading this and realize how negative I sound - its not very balanced. I do like plenty of things about this book and have high hopes for it - SM is one of my favorite characters of all time. So take this for what it is ... Ranting to blow off some steam

I agree with EVERYTHING you said here. You summed up Shadowman perfectly! I think thus far, the series has had some good points, if not great, yet the lack of an identity for the series as a whole is dissapointing. JJ had to go. Hopefully from #13 onwards we see something worth sticking with. At this stage, after #10 I'm dropping it from my pull list.

[grendeljd]

There seems to be a rumour flying around that Ales Kot will be the new writer with #13, not just doing one of the short stories in 12... Saw something posted about it on the Valiant Fan Facebook page... Something about a leak in a Bleeding Cool article? I didn't look it up to verify though...

[BugsySig]

There seems to be a rumour flying around that Ales Kot will be the new writer with #13, not just doing one of the short stories in 12... Saw something posted about it on the Valiant Fan Facebook page... Something about a leak in a Bleeding Cool article? I didn't look it up to verify though...

He's the one name that keeps popping up among fans and news sites (only rumors though). I shall investigate further, however