Eternal Warrior #2 Discussion

[ThatDarnCabbage]

So if Eternal Warrior supposedly quit during the civil war, why was he shown to still be fighting in 1963 in Archer and Armstrong #9? They need a better timeline mapped out for EW. I heard tight continuity was a staple of the original Valiant but in this universe it feels fairly haphazard at times, not very mapped out. Even artistically, The Mr. Kozol in the most recent issue of Archer and Armstrong looks nothing like how he does in Bloodshot. I know continuity isn't required for good stories but when these stories are supposed to take place in the same universe, I'd like for them to fit together.

Unrelated, do geomancer's live longer lives? The one in this issue looks like the one from A & A #4.

[Carson]

So if Eternal Warrior supposedly quit during the civil war, why was he shown to still be fighting in 1963 in Archer and Armstrong #9?

Dang. That's a good point. They gotta work on that.

[mateo107]

Unrelated, do geomancer's live longer lives? The one in this issue looks like the one from A & A #4.

yeah, I was confused about that also. I thought the geomancer who died in A&A #4 was Buck McHenry. it would make more sense if he had walked away more recently, considering the past they've already established for him, and would the Earth really have let him live 150 years longer after quitting?

[Phoenix8008]

Was that EW shooting Kennedy? I forget. Maybe he wasn't working for the Earth at that time. Maybe it was just for fun, or somebody tricked him into doing it for personal reasons like Harada is about to use him against X-O in Unity.

[BugsySig]

Was that EW shooting Kennedy? I forget. Maybe he wasn't working for the Earth at that time. Maybe it was just for fun, or somebody tricked him into doing it for personal reasons like Harada is about to use him against X-O in Unity.

He was fighting Jack Ruby as Lee Harvey Oswald shot him in the head and the Earth revived him. It bothered me as well, but it can be explained one of two ways: 1) He said he was working for MI:5 at the time, so that's not working for the Earth, and the Earth still had plans for him and wouldn't let him die...or 2) Even though he says, "That's when I walked away," its ambiguous enough that he may not have actually quit at that time or he rejoined the cause and quit again at various points.

[lorddunlow]

First of all, the word "echo" has been used past quota in this thread. One week embargo of its use.

Secondly, whoa.


That is all.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

There's also the possibility that the this issue takes place prior to the 1963 flashback in A&A. We haven't seen any technology or historical references which would contradict that yet.

[Carson]

There's also the possibility that the this issue takes place prior to the 1963 flashback in A&A. We haven't seen any technology or historical references which would contradict that yet.

Another good point! I hope this is the case.

[jmatt]

...considering the past they've already established for him, and would the Earth really have let him live 150 years longer after quitting?

I was thinking that perhaps having been the fist and steel for 10,000(?) years, once he stopped, the aging process is very slow... like he ages a day for every month that goes by.

We've seen the cover for EW #5 with an aged Eternal Emperor. Perhaps in two thousand years he's like 70 years old because once he quit, the aging process re-engages even if he goes back to being the fist and steel.

And perhaps Buck took up the mantle of being his own fist and steel, thus prolonging his life 150 years.

But I was a little confused myself. No Fist and Steel for all of the twentieth century? No Gilad in WW1 or WW2?

[blujay]

There's also the possibility that the this issue takes place prior to the 1963 flashback in A&A. We haven't seen any technology or historical references which would contradict that yet.

One of the captions says "Now" when referring to the setting. I'm guessing that means 2013

[leonmallett]

I really enjoyed this issue, narratively more than the first (which wasn't bad, just this was stronger IMHO).

The flashback to the nineteenth century was compelling, and made me think how much I would love a flashback story where the paths of Gilad and perhaps the first Shadowman cross.

More than anything though, was the sense of growing complexity around Gilad even just two issues in.

This title could quickly shoot up my personal VALIANT rankings.

[bygranddesign]

So if Eternal Warrior supposedly quit during the civil war, why was he shown to still be fighting in 1963 in Archer and Armstrong #9?

wow...good catch. That's not cool. I'm sure they can explain away this continuity issue ... but the lack of attention to detail is a bit frustrating

Dang. That's a good point. They gotta work on that.

What is Mr. Shooter doing these days?

i kid i kid ...

[grendeljd]

This was an excellent read, I really enjoyed the issue. Excellent writing - loved the narrative monologue & the great interpersonal characterizations that were achieved much more successfully via great dialogue than in #1.

I felt that there was too much empty action in #1 that came across as filler rather than doing the intended job of establishing Gilad's family relationships - I didn't feel any pathos for his sons death, and the story jumped too quickly from that filler battle to the present too quickly for me to feel any surprise impact that Xaran was still alive.

But #2 has me much more intrigued about her, and it was good to see Gilad fight for her sake even though he also feels angry enough to want to kill her. Great stuff.

As to the apparent continuity gaps pointed out thus far in this thread... It bothers me less than I thought it would, after reading this issue I am left with a confidant feeling that all will be revealed to make sense eventually. It certainly seems like Buck has an unusually extended lifespan - but do we know for sure that Geomancers don't also live a bit longer in the VEI universe? Has anything contradicted that possibility to date?

[Peter]

I feel as if we still have too little information to go on to try and piece it all together as yet, so I am trying not to worry too much that way yet, but what an issue, it was the artwork in the flashback that totally blew me away.
It was stunning, the story is getting very interesting as well.

I totally agree with you Carson regarding the surviving villagers. I think that will come back to bite Gilad and to show him that the Geomancers have their reasons for making the hard decisions.

I'm really enjoying this ride at the moment, great issue, so glad the Eternal Warrior title is back.

I also think Xaran can't complain too much about an elbow in the face from Gilad, it may have taken 6000 years to come running back to her father, but what does she expect, roses?

[Carson]

^ yep, the elbow to her face was tame compared to the spear to his chest last time he saw her!

I think we'll see that the roots of the guardians of the Wild came from that tribe, but time will tell

[Chiclo]

What is Mr. Shooter doing these days?

i kid i kid ...

Probably being bitter and being that creepy old guy in the neighbourhood that children think is secretly a werewolf and stay away from his yard lest they befall untold horrible fates.

[Knightt]

There's also the possibility that the this issue takes place prior to the 1963 flashback in A&A. We haven't seen any technology or historical references which would contradict that yet.

True, there is nothing to contradict that the issue could take place prior to 1963 but you 'do' have a more definitive low end to the time-frame in which to reference that statement. I believe you can be assured that this issue does not take place prior to 1957. I add that when Gilad comes out of the shack wielding a mighty nice piece of technology, he is carrying an M60 Machine Gun (7.62 mm). This weapon began development in the late 1940's (by US defense contractor Saco Defense, see General Dynamics) but was not adopted by the US Army until 1957. The "possibility that the this issue takes place prior to the 1963 flashback in A&A" theory is validated by this technological fact. Granted, this a small window of reference but you can surmise that this issue did NOT take place before 1957. That being the case, "how did Gilad obtain a freakin' M60" in Africa possibly during the years 1957 and 1963 ? Well you got me there because 'if' we nail down the when this story takes place and the where (Africa but only those counties indigenous to lions i.e. sub-Saharan Africa), there were no US forces in the country for him to have gotten that weapon. I'm not saying that there were no military in the region during 1957 to 1963. In fact there was military involvement during that time-frame, the United Nations Operation in the Congo from 1960 to 1964. However, none of the military units deployed to the region during the operation were from the United States nor were they partnered to the point where the US would 'share' this newly adopted weapon. None of the military deployed to the region during that time-frame would have access to the M60.

But I guess Valiant could say that Gilad "got it elsewhere" or "during his time as a contractor for Saco Defense where he helped engineer the M60 machine gun", again adding to his legend. Buuut that is some shoddy storytelling. I liked the continuity that was so well known with Valiant back in the day. Some history plotting or even a Valiant bible to issued to all the current Valiant writers would be a good idea or we will have anachronisms popping up from time to time. You see, telling stories in the past is a complicated thing and you better do your homework.

But who has time to look up historic facts ?

Personally, the current Eternal Warrior series (even through we are only two issues into it) has got me VERY excited and VERY eager to read more. I've always like the Eternal Warrior character especially when those historic preludes !! Issue #2 serves as an exceptional example of this, not only with the story but with the change in artists (something I do not generally like). I think the Crain art serves the story well as he preserves the past in a great perspective and use of colors. I thought the frame where the blood was in focus (to highlight Gilad's focus) during the battle was a great visual trick to slow down the battle as Gilad would have seen it. Conversely, Hairsines art is rough and rugged enough to separate the past from the future in a contrast that works well for me. Granted, at times his art is wonky, there are frames where he nails right on the head, where I sat there and thought "that is a nice piece right there". The elbow to the face that Xaran receives from her father, Gilad shocked me and literally made me laugh out loud. Then to have Gilad jump 'back' into the fight, using the elbow as a feint, is a classic move and it's use was perfect... I was not expecting it.

One thing that I don't believe anyone has picked up on is the common visual linkage from past to present story !! What is that ? Well, it is the spear !! The spear has carried over as a visual from not only issue number one to now but also the Civil War scene, making the Union soldiers mistake Gilad for an Indian (Native American for you political correct people). THAT was a great carryover, especially the way it is used in issue #2. I thought that it was very clever and then to bring it home again from issue #1... very clever gentlemen.

While a lot is left to be figured out, I think that the current pace could set things up for a nice five or six issue story arc but looking ahead (and Valiant lets us look FAR, too far, ahead in the storylines if you ask me), this looks like it will wrap up soon as the cover to Eternal Warrior #5 is sporting a 'Valiant futureverse' story where it is reported that a transformed Gilad Anni-Padda is fighting the forces of final extinction to protect a tattered remnant of humanity on a ravaged continent in the year 4001. Valiant likes to get to the climax quick without much character development and THIS is a character worth developing because he already has a rich history to draw from. I think it is too soon to wrap up the current storyline because right now I am enjoying this Eternal Warrior.

[Phoenix8008]

So just because Gilad was in America dealing with Jack Ruby in '63 instead of living in Africa PROVES that he wasn't retired from 'Eternal Warrioring'??? I admit it does feel like a screw up, but they may be able to spin it still. Wouldn't be the first 'Ooops' moment. Just ask Anne Alafair.

[ShadowTuga]

So just because Gilad was in America dealing with Jack Ruby in '63 instead of living in Africa PROVES that he wasn't retired from 'Eternal Warrioring'??? I admit it does feel like a screw up, but they may be able to spin it still. Wouldn't be the first 'Ooops' moment. Just ask Anne Alafair.

Agree. If it's a slip, it's still easily corrected.

Next issue inner dialogue: "I only helped them once through that period...". Problem solved.

[Captain Craig]

It indeed maybe written for the trade but these are 4 issue arcs and this issue did a lot to advance things. Yes, issue #1 was more about Xan than Gilad but #2 made up for that.

I also like how the art, at least for this arc, is being used to help showcase the change in "when".

[Carson]

I also like how the art, at least for this arc, is being used to help showcase the change in "when".

Yep, this was done well in harbinger #0 and again here. I hope it's something editorial (Warren et al) will continue to do.

[Phoenix8008]

I also like how the art, at least for this arc, is being used to help showcase the change in "when".

Yep, this was done well in harbinger #0 and again here. I hope it's something editorial (Warren et al) will continue to do.

They did the same thing in early issues of Bloodshot to differentiate his uploaded memories from the real world, and in Shadowman for real world/Deadside.

[Carson]

I also like how the art, at least for this arc, is being used to help showcase the change in "when".

Yep, this was done well in harbinger #0 and again here. I hope it's something editorial (Warren et al) will continue to do.

They did the same thing in early issues of Bloodshot to differentiate his uploaded memories from the real world, and in Shadowman for real world/Deadside.

Right on. I recall it working well in those issues.

Issues like shadowman 10, that have many artists and no rhyme or reason for who's on what pages drive me crazy! Shadowman 10 was a great story and the art really hurt it in places, taking my mind out of the story and into art critic mode.

[Knightt]

I also like how the art, at least for this arc, is being used to help showcase the change in "when".

Yep, this was done well in harbinger #0 and again here. I hope it's something editorial (Warren et al) will continue to do.

They did the same thing in early issues of Bloodshot to differentiate his uploaded memories from the real world, and in Shadowman for real world/Deadside.

Right on. I recall it working well in those issues.

Issues like shadowman 10, that have many artists and no rhyme or reason for who's on what pages drive me crazy! Shadowman 10 was a great story and the art really hurt it in places, taking my mind out of the story and into art critic mode.

So, is it a bad thing to mix the two ? I find myself reading the stories usually without any problem but it's the damn art that gives me "the letdown". Do you find this to be the same ?

[grendeljd]

I also like how the art, at least for this arc, is being used to help showcase the change in "when".

Yep, this was done well in harbinger #0 and again here. I hope it's something editorial (Warren et al) will continue to do.

They did the same thing in early issues of Bloodshot to differentiate his uploaded memories from the real world, and in Shadowman for real world/Deadside.

Right on. I recall it working well in those issues.

Issues like shadowman 10, that have many artists and no rhyme or reason for who's on what pages drive me crazy! Shadowman 10 was a great story and the art really hurt it in places, taking my mind out of the story and into art critic mode.

So, is it a bad thing to mix the two ? I find myself reading the stories usually without any problem but it's the damn art that gives me "the letdown". Do you find this to be the same ?

Do you mean mix two art styles in one issue? Personally I think its a great idea when executed well, as in some of the examples listed above. I liked it in EW #2, there was a very distinct contrast in the styles, which is probably the key to making it work best. I was definitely not a fan of those issues of Shadowman where it was much more haphazard & didn't always coincide with a significant change in the story or setting. That really took me out of enjoying the story.